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BTK Victim's son thinks his father's murder by BTK was linked to his military career


Piecing Together the Puzzle

The moment he found his parents murdered in their bed on January 15, 1974, Charlie Otero, then 15, had a sneaking suspicion that his father crossed paths with the murderer at some earlier point in time. In fact, he "suspected the killings had something to do with his father's military past," Tim Potter reported in an August 2004 Wichita Eagle article. Charlie's father, Joseph Otero, served 21 years in the Air Force (between 1952 and 1973) before retiring and finding work at Wichita's Rose Hill Airport as an airplane technician and flight instructor.

There is no telling if Joseph Otero and his killer ever served together. Yet, what is certain is that BTK suspect Dennis Rader also served in the Air Force. The two men's' careers actually overlapped during a four-year period, lasting between 1966 and 1970. However, there is no evidence that they were ever stationed at the same base together or even crossed paths, Potter suggested in a March 2005 Wichita Eagle article. According to the report, Otero spent most of his time stationed in Panama and Puerto Rico, whereas Rader was based in San Antonio, Texas, Mobile, Alabama and Okinawa, Japan.

chapter continues


Even though there is little evidence to support his theory, Charlie Otero continues to believe that the BTK killer and his father shared a military past because of a series of events that occurred days prior to the murders. A December 2004 Associated Press article quoted him saying that at "one time the power went out" and his father made the family hide in the closet. Moreover, Joseph tried to give him his ring in case something happened to him. The report further suggested that Charlie overheard a telephone conversation that led him to believe that his father's murder was directly connected to his military career.

Based on Charlie's account, it was clear that immediately prior to the murders, Joseph was terrified that something dreadful might happen and likely by someone he knew. To date, investigators are continuing to look for evidence that might link Rader to Otero during the overlapping period of time they served in the Air Force. At several police stations near where Rader was stationed, investigators are searching for murders that might resemble other BTK crimes. Investigators hope to obtain more insight into whether BTK's victims were chosen at random or deliberately targeted. Furthermore, they hope to determine whether BTK might have committed earlier murders in other locations prior to 1974.

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Victim's son believes father knew BTK, family targeted


Associated Press

WICHITA, Kan. - For decades after leaving school, Charlie Otero stayed underground hiding from the BTK serial killer who strangled his parents and two younger siblings.

"I didn't want him tracking me, knowing where I am," Otero said in a telephone interview Tuesday from the Western New Mexico Correctional Facility. "No rent, no house, no bills. Nothing. No jobs. No checks."

Otero was 15 when he found his parents' bound bodies in their bedroom in 1974. Police told him later that his brother and sister were also killed.

Now 46, Otero remains convinced his father knew the killer because he had been acting strangely to protect the family in the days just before the killings. And he believes his family was targeted because of something his father did during his military service.

The strangulation of Otero's four family members are the earliest deaths claimed by the killer who calls himself BTK, which stands for "Bind, Torture, Kill." He has been linked to eight unsolved homicides that terrorized Wichita between 1974 and 1986. After years of silence, the killer surfaced again by sending letters to police and media this year.

Police said earlier this year that the Otero killings had "special significance" because they were the first in a string of killings. But police have refused to discuss the case beyond carefully scripted statements periodically released.

On Jan. 15, 1974, the three surviving children of Joseph and Julie Otero came home from school to find their parents and two other siblings, Josephine, 11, and Joseph II, 9, dead at the family's Wichita home.

Otero is nearing the end of a four-year sentence for aggravated battery in a domestic violence case. He said he has not talked to BTK investigators since 1977 or 1978. He wants to know what is happening in the case, and whether there is any way he can help.

"I've had this bottled up inside me for 30 years," he said.

He listened intently as an AP reporter recounted the details released Tuesday by Wichita police profiling the killer in the hopes that someone could identify him. None of it pointed to anyone he knew, he said afterward.

"I've always thought my father knew him, that is about all," Otero said.

His father knew something was wrong, Otero said, citing several instances in the days before the murders that were "very suspicious." One time when the lights went out, his father made the family get into a closet until he made sure the neighborhood was also dark.

Another time, when a telephone repairman showed up at the house, Joseph Otero made his son go to a window to make sure there was a company van there before he opened the door.

Then just days before he died, Joseph Otero, who worked as an aircraft mechanic, tried to give him his ring in case something happened to him. Charlie Otero now remembers telling his father he didn't want him to talk like that, kidding his father he would probably outlive him.

"Nobody hated my family," Otero said. "I am sure it had something to do with my father's military history. My dad did things. ... He had to tell somebody what he had been up to in the last few years and he was dead days later."

Years later Otero is still convinced - based on that overheard telephone conversation his father had days before his death - that his family's slaughter had something to do with his service in the U.S. Air Force. Otero said his father was involved with the Inter-American Air Forces Academy, a program that has trained Air Force personnel from Latin America for 60 years.

But Otero declined to say further what his father did in the military because he was afraid talking about it might jeopardize his parole next month.

He still remembers vividly the day his family was killed. His younger siblings were the first to find their parents bodies, crying out to him that mom and dad were playing a bad joke on them.

But Otero instantly knew they were dead: "My dad was cold, hard. You could smell the death. His tongue was almost bit off, a belt was around his neck."

He thought his other siblings were in school, now he knows they never got a chance to go to school before the killer came to their house. He and his two surviving siblings would also be dead had they not left an hour earlier than usual for school, he said.

Otero said he learned further details of his family's murders after hiring a lawyer and private investigator and reading some of the FBI files on the case.

That is where he said he found out that his father was apparently untied in the middle of his torture session and made to write something before he was tied up again and killed.

The killings changed his life: "Look where I am at," Otero said in the prison interview.

Otero said he has spent 20 of the last 30 years hiding from BTK. He said he is not paranoid because the killer is still out there.

And he has something he would like to tell BTK: "Why? Turn yourself in. Tell me why."

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another coincidence along the way:

David Niven's first wife died in a mysterious accidental fall at the home of Niven's friend, Tyrone Power, who played Zorro, in The Mask of Zorro. In Eye of the Devil, David Niven plays the part of a husband

whose wife is lured onto the roof, hypnotized, and tricked into walking off the edge of the roof. In another famous scene, Niven attacks and subdues Sharon Tate with a decidedly Zorroesque leather whip.


Batman connection

In the DC Comics continuity it is established that The Mark of Zorro was the film which the young Bruce Wayne had watched with his parents at the cinema, and after which he witnessed the murder of his parents. Zorro is often portrayed as Bruce's childhood hero and an influence on his Batman persona.

David Niven was an officer in the British Army during WWII, and as an officer he was assigned a personal assistant/body guard. These officers assistants are known and referred to as 'Bat Men'.

Officer Niven's 'bat man' was Peter Ustinov, who also starred with him in the WWII propaganda film 'One of our Aircraft is Missing'(1942). Ustinov's father was an intelligence agency operative.

David Niven was author Ian Fleming's first preference and choice to play the part of James Bond in the first James Bond movie, but was ousted by Sean Connery. James Bond is of course, a famous fictional British secret service assassin and hero.

In the U.S. , Zorro, The Lone Ranger, Batman etc. are all pop-culture archetypes for the secret police, popularizing the concept of an unauthorized , secretive killer with unlimited power operating on the good-guy authority of nothing but his own 'unassailable rightness' about everything.

So AMericans are thereby conditioned to the 'secret good-guys' concept of frontier justice operating secretly and violently under their very noses.

I would say that the most modern manifestation of this archetype is Keifer Sutherland playing 'Jack Bauer in FOX televisions hit series '24'.

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  • 1 month later...

CIA drug planes: "Tip of the Iceberg"

Fleet of 50 American aircraft sold to Sinaloa Cartel

January 16, 2008

by Daniel Hopsicker

Two American-registered drug planes busted in Mexico carrying four and 5.5 tons of cocaine are just the "tip of the iceberg" in a blockbuster aviation deal which sold 50 American-registered aircraft to the Sinaloa Cartel.

According to an indictment released over the holidays by Mexico’s Atty. General, Pedro Alfonso Alatorre, already indicted as the cartel’s chief financier, purchased the DC9 (N900SA) airliner, the Gulfstream II business jet (N987SA), and 48 other planes not yet identified for Mexico's Sinaloa Cartel with laundered drug money, using a company he controls which owns currency exchanges at major airports in Mexico.

Now we know who bought the airplanes. The trickier question is: who sold them? The answer, normally, would be, "Their local counterparts in international organized crime."

But these aren't normal circumstances. Why? Because the U.S. doesn't even have any Drug Lords. Ask anybody at the DEA. Apparently, we don't even bother to field a team.

complete article:


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Obama Economic Controller

Is Skull And Bones Member

Austan 'The Ghoul' Goolsbee, Yale '91

By Webster Tarpley



WASHINGTON DC -- Barack Obama's top economics adviser is a member of the super-secret Skull & Bones society of Yale University, of which George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, and John Kerry are also members, reliable sources confirmed tonight. Goolsbee is widely reported to have told Obama not to back a compulsory freeze on home mortgage foreclosures to help the struggling middle class in the current depression crisis, as demanded by former candidate John Edwards. Hillary Clinton has advocated a one-year voluntary freeze on foreclosures. Obama has offered counselors to comfort mortgage victims as they are dispossessed, citing the 'moral hazard' of protecting the public interest from Wall Street sharks.

By adding the infamous Skull & Bones secret society to his campaign roster, Obama, who bills himself as the candidate of change and hope, has attained a prefect trifecta of oligarchical and financier establishment backing for his attempt to seize the nomination of the Democratic Party for 2008. Obama's main overall image adviser and foreign policy adviser is Zbigniew Brzezinski, the co-founder of David Rockefeller's Trilateral Commission, and the mastermind of the disastrous Carter administration. Obama's wife Michelle is reputed to be closely linked to the Council on Foreign Relations. Behind the utopian platitudes dished up by the Illinois senator, the face of the Wall Street money elite comes into clearer and clearer focus.

George Will, in an October 2007 Washington Post column saluted Goolsbee's "nuanced understanding" of traditional Democratic issues like globalization and income inequality; he "seems to be the sort of fellow -- amiable, empirical, and reasonable--you would want at the elbow of a Democratic president, if such there must be," wrote the arch-oligarchical apologist Will.

From Wikipedia: 'Austan D. Goolsbee is an economist and is currently the Robert P. Gwinn Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business. He is also a Research Fellow at the American Bar Foundation[1], Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and a member of the Panel of Economic Advisors to the Congressional Budget Office. He has been Barack Obama's economic advisor since Obama's successful U.S. Senate campaign in Illinois. He is the lead economic advisor to the 2008 Obama presidential campaign.'

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  • 4 weeks later...

Back to the Hells Angels, a documentary soon to air on the BBC, details a plot by the motorcycle club to murder Mick Jagger. The group was apparently upset about the decision to quit using the Angels as security in the aftermath of the Altamont Speedway incident. Several other groups had been using the Angels' services so they were upset that they were about to lose a significant income source. Apparantly the boat that the assassins were using to access Jagger's home on Long Island, was sunk in a storm. Although all survived, another attempt was not made.

Just thought this was interesting. Could fit into this fantastic tale somewhere. :innocent:

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  • 1 month later...


IDF choppers in service of drug cartel

Itamar Eichner

YNet News

April 27, 2008

Another diplomatic incident threatens to taint U.S.-Israeli relations: The American government has recently demanded Israel clarify how five U.S.-made helicopters sold to Israel in the mid-70s found their way into the hands of a Columbian drug cartel.

An U.S. embassy official met with an Israeli foreign ministry official in Jerusalem several days ago, where he informed him that the American Foreign Ministry has requested the embassy to launch an investigation into the matter.

According to American sources, the military copters currently serve the drug mafia in the South American country.

Top diplomatic sources fear that this incident will once again heat-up tensions between Israel and the U.S. and cloud the strategic dialogue between the two countries, which is scheduled to renew in November, after talks were suspended for more than a year-and-a-half.

Read entire article

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The CIA special forces unit is bombing American troops and Iraqi civilians in order to extend the war. They

are using stolen American and Canadian vehicles for these car-bomb attacks on allied targets.

There are at least two incidents where Americans and Britons have been actually caught dressed as Arabs while carrying out these bombing

operations(linked below , or see Terrorstorm by Alex Jones for background http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=78...torm&hl=en)

The Hells Angels are obtaining (stealing) the vehicles used in these attacks and shipping them overseas via west coast shipping ports.

The Hells Angels are nothing more than an extension of George H. Bush's CIA/Skull n' Bones narcotics-smuggling cartel.

The Hells Angels were originally formed by former WWII/Korean War and Vietnam War vets ( a high % CIA AIr America pilots/paratroopers/international drug and weapons smugglers).

They named themselves Hells Angels because it is a term that reaches all the way back to elite WWI mercenary paratroopers, the 'for hire'

covert operations assassins and terrorists known as Hells Angels who carried out illegal civilian kidnappings, interrogations, tortures,

assassinations, and numerous terrorist atrocities on behalf of the U.S. government. Howard Hughes made the film Hells Angels about WWI-era fighter squadrons and named it after them. The Hells Angels have always been a conduit for the street drugs that the Skull n' Bones/CIA international narcotics trafficking network fly or ship into the United States and Canada.


Now we find that this same network is supplying the vehicles used by covert forces in car-bomb attacks against U.S. troops. Mercenary

special forces units are attacking key American and allied strongholds in Iraq with car bombs while dressed as Arabs. Hells Angels. The Iraq

and Afghanistan wars are all about Bush and his narcotics cartel moving opium, cocaine, weapons, and even human organs and sex slaves around the world and killing as many people

as possible in the process.


You have to understand one thing about Skull n' Bones//CIA . They are occult Globalists. They hold no allegiance to any one nation. They are satanic elitists, and they feel that they are smarter than the rest of us, and that their evil is beneficial to the world, because the wealth that they accrue 'strengthens their superior genes as a gift to humanity' etc., and the large number of people that they kill are eliminated as a service to the ecology of the planet/gene pool blah blah blah.

They are nothing but a bunch of murderous, greedy scumbags who have latched onto all sorts of occult new-age bull to make them feel

good about what they are. Air America and Special Forces etc. are just their henchmen.

The Hells Angels Bikers/gangs are just the domestic little retirement club that the elite set up to reward their burnt-out henchman with plumb little 'regional' drug-dealing

contracts, complete with bought off/planted police in select areas. Membership sometimes has its rewards, even for the burnt-out smack-addict pilots and jungle psychos that staff Air America.

(they come back to America from overseas assignments still addicted to heroin & coke more often than not )


Reports of secret U.S. govt. operations featuring special forces operatives disguised as arabs carrying out bomb attacks in Iraq:




So, looks like we have a situation where the CIA does not want an end to violence. They want things to escalate in Iraq, and they want more

dead U.S. soldiers coming home. They know that if there are no American casualties in Iraq, the Americans will look like bullies, and

furthermore, there will seem to be no reason to stay there. They are creating the illusion of fierce resistance by bombing their own troops.

Pathetic that the Americans even have to supply the vehicles used in these attacks, but it is part of their strategy. CIA Special Forces units in Iraq take delivery.

They wire up these expensive foreign vehicles with explosives, like luxury SUVS , which are in great demand overseas, and these are rigged to detonate via remote control.

The economic chaos created in Iraq means their are plenty of Iraqis willing to 'deliver' these stolen vehicles to a 'rendezvous' (usually a crowded market spot) or some

other strategically selected location where there will be witnesses as to who is driving. . The explosives-laden vehicle is followed, and then detonated via remote control.

Another ploy is to just park the vehicle overnight in a crowded area. The next morning , when the crowds are out, they detonate it, again via remote control.


> Zero evidence. None of the Hells Angels are Yale or even Harvard or Stanford men > not even UBC or Queens University.


I said they were an extension, ie: closely associated. I have never said the Hells Angels bikers/gnagsters are direct Skull n' Bones members. I have said that many of them

are closely associated via their history of involvement in covert CIA war and drug operations. If you have any doubts about CIA involvement in drugs watch the Clinton

Chronicles or watch this:


and this:


> > They named themselves Hells Angels because it is a term that reaches

> > all the way back to elite WWI mercenary paratroopers,


> Paratroopers in WW1?? Wrong. They took the name from the WW2 bomber

> group of the same name and the Howard Hughes movie of the same name.

wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell%27s_Angels_%28film%29

the film Hells Angels was made before WWII, in 1929-30


So, the term Hells Angels has been around a lot longer than you think, and prior to WWII. It is from WWI.

Hughes named his 1929 film 'Hells Angels' after the term for covert mercenary soldiers and paratroopers known as Hells Angels, operatives

who would do anything for money, including torture, murder, assassinations, and terrorism. These WWI-era Hells Angels preceded the

creation of the CIA , which was created after WWII. The predecessor organization which created the CIA was the Skull n' Bones society,

founded by the wealthy Russel international opium syndicate family. *


And if you have any doubt at all that Skull n' Bones, aka Haliburton, CIA etc. have a vested interest in extending these wars as long as possible, watch

the video 'Iraq For Sale'


A Robert Greenwald film about corporations in Iraq.

This is Vietnam all over again, Its all about the Skull n' Bones clan getting rich selling weaponry n' drugs, nothing more.


Oh, my God!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Then check out these articles on Keith Richards snorting his father's cremated ashes in a ritual:


KEITH RICHARDS, the hard-living guitarist for the Rolling Stones, recently claimed — in jest, he now says — that, after the death of his father in 2002, he mixed some of the old man’s ashes with cocaine and snorted them. While the tabloid press was quick to milk this revelation for every last bit of shock value, ingesting a dead family member isn’t quite as depraved as it seems. After all, “funerary cannibalism,” as anthropologists call it, has existed in different parts of the world since prehistoric times.

As recently as the 1950s, a New Guinea tribe called the Fore engaged in the ritual consumption of dead relatives. The practice led to an epidemic of kuru, or “shaking death,” a mad-cow-like neurodegenerative disease caused by eating human brains.

The mourning customs of another group of New Guinea aborigines, the Gimi, also involved funerary cannibalism. According to Dr. Kenneth Iserson, the author of the encyclopedic “Death to Dust: What Happens to Dead Bodies?,” “In the Gimi ritual, relatives placed a dead man’s body on a platform, so that he could decompose. ... His female relatives then dragged him off the scaffold, dismembered the corpse, and carried the pieces into the normally forbidden men’s hut. There they ate their portions over several days.”



Keith Richards: 'I DID snort my dad's ashes'

Rolling Stones star confirms NME story after all

Aug 6, 2007

The Rolling Stones' guitarist Keith Richards has confirmed that he did snort his father’s ashes, as he told NME.COM earlier this year.

Richards originally claimed he was misquoted, after his publicists attempted to quash the story.

It looks to me like Richards snorted his father's ashes in an occult ritual , and let it slip to the media because he wanted a publicity stunt.

But his associates rethought that , and had him issue a denial, probably because Jagger and the rest did not want it opening a whole can of worms about the serious occult rituals that they have been involved in. Feeling sheepish, Richards issued a denial for the general public, but later made an excuse that he had snorted the ashes because they just happened to spill on the table and he didn't feel it appropriate to waste them. This is b.s., obviously. Given what is known about how Jagger and Richards occult immersion, Jagger's international travels,

involvement with cannibalistic tribes, etc., there can be little doubt that Richard's snorted his fathers ashes

in a deliberate and proscribed funerary occult ritual, likely involving some South American rites and mixing the ashes with drugs like Yage or Peyote for a mystical experience with the spirit of the departed.

Edited by thunkerdrone
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I wonder what Robert Berdella would have to say about this story of the Agriprocessors kosher slaughter house in Iowa

found to be staffed by illegal alien latinos and containing a meth lab.

(Berdella dealt drugs and slaughtered men kosher-style in his basement, and worked at some very good restaurants in Kansas City)

Feds: Drugs made at kosher meat plant


ICE says is investigating aggravated identity theft and fraudulent use of Social Security numbers, among other crime


anyone interested in this subject should download the movie Fastfood Nation.

Edited by thunkerdrone
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  • 2 months later...

at 22minutes Aha~ this lady is hilarious. "he said it was used to transport porpoises"

Thank you for this presentation. Filled in some gaps.

The other week I was in upstate New York near Albany for Camp Bisco 7 (music festival). When my wife and I got there, we were very suprised. We figured that we could camp on a beautiful "80 acre" piece of land, but only a few acres were utilized and everyone had to smush together with their cars and tents. The event security were all Hell's Angels. If someone was doing something they didn't like, they would kick you out instantly (selling without a permit). They also control all the drugs that were sold (or atleast the majority) and if they caught someone else selling drugs - the punishment was "heavy." The Angels had a house where no one was allowed to go near. It was on top of a hill and lit up at night. They circled and gathered at this house on their ATV/Motorcycles.

I found the music to be amazing there, but the people and the tone/mood/energy was very off. It seemed very negative.

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this is Jeffery Dahmer, Skulln'Bones, BTK type stuff


Slaughtered Vomit Dolls trailer:



Here is August Underground Mordum:

warning, you know how sick this stuff is this, so

proceed with caution:



the horrible thing is that knowing what I know now about the whole

S&M scene, the drugs, the 'underground' CIA mk (mind kontrol) stuff, etc.,

for all you know , the 'victims' in this are real, or this is closely based on real events.

The BTK killer, Berdella, Dahmer, the Pickton Hells Angels, etc. , are just a few of the cases of people who have been caught and

widely publicized. Who knows how many of these real life horror houses exist ?

yes, its truly bizarre that large amounts of money are being spent to

produce this stuff. Why? For who? People allegedly used to faint at the sight

of the original King Kong, and now they are watching stuff like Slaughtered Vomit Dolls?

If there truly are millions of MK slaves around, and among them hundreds of thousands of 'programmers' , etc. I guess these people are who it will appeal to on some level. And then to round things out, there is the morbid curiosity of the idiocracy and the young.

There is of course an element to all of this of the travelling carnival freak show. That is, imo, most of the appeal of things like pornography

and gore. A lot of people who watch porn do so out of a combination of boredom and curiosity, and do not watch it out of some aching sexual desire for perversion. People are naturally curious to find out what is being hidden behind the curtain, and my, does the 'intelligence community' have a lot of things 'hidden behind the curtain'. So why not go to them for your next batch of exotic gawk-worthy curiosities to unveil ?

The scary part is when I realize that a film like 'My Own Private Idaho' depicted something real, and something 'by design'. It denoted something far bigger than the sum of its parts, and served some purpose of 'revealing', though it never came out and said anything specifically. The film was a portrait as opposed to a book. In fact it never was a book. It was written

as a film, as a painting , if you will. A book explains in detail what is happening and why. A painting, graphic, or photograph gives you only the visual picture , and it is up to your eyes and brain to recognize and interpret the images. That is what 'My Own Private Idaho' was, imo. A huge two hour graphic image, one huge photograph. That , imo, is why most porn is so incredibly crappy. It is one long boring photograph, a 'dirty picture' produced by people who only know how to snap dirty pictures, so the net effect is that you feel like you are staring at the same photograph for one or two hours.

The intrinsic thrill is supposed to be the voyeuristic pleasure of seeing something that would have been kept a secret made public.

But then there is the pleasure of the exhibitionists themselves to consider as well. The exhibitionist plays to the voyeur.

So, My Own Private Idaho was a leaked 'photograph' of something secret

and then twenty years later, the same milieu is putting out things like 'Slaughtered Vomit Dolls.'

I can speculate on the explanation , that the intelligence community take an exhibitionist's pleasure in 'flashing' the public with such portraits, such

glimpses. YEs, it is an attempt to desensitize, familiarize and convert the public to their own tastes. They are like any enthusiast , really.

For example of an enthusiast:

A car fanatic collects cars, creates cars, draws pictures of them, collects pictures of them, but there is also the desire to 'exhibit' his cars and share

the enthusiasm with others, to draw them in and involve them.

Is that not what these Private Idaho pedos, and now snuff pornographers are doing?

The scary part is that it is not just fantasy.

They are showing us an exhibit of their works, their 'collection'.

Edited by thunkerdrone
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The U.S. Army/Air Force/ Marines sponsor UFC 'Ultimate Fighter' reality show with television ads



UFC machine-gun T-shirt


UFC camouflage T-shirt


The UFC fighting ring 'The Octagon'


The Pentagon



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Originally Posted by broken silence View Post

Axl is a manic depressive and was abused by both his father and step-father.

The original album cover of appetite for destruction featured a robot (slave?) raping a woman. It was banned.

In 1991 Axl employed a personal assistant called BETA This makes more sense beause earlier in the gig, Axl told the crowd how he had almost been raped in St.Louis some years previously by a travelling salesman who gave him a ride after Axl had ran away from home. Axl escaped the motel room they shared after "waking up" to find this guy tying to have sex with him and threatened the salesman with a razor across the throat.

n the 1993 Spaghetti Incident album, Axl insisted that a song written by Charles Manson called "look at your game girl" appear as a bonus track at the end of this album. Well why would you do this? You would if songwriting genius Manson was one of your your handlers. Axl visited Manson in jail several times in the nineties despite never previously knowing him (allegedly, I have my doubts). Axl wore a t-shirt with Charles Mansons face on it during the 1993 use your illusion world tour.


yes, the robot is a symbol, imo, of someone under control by others

this guy played guitar for Guns n' Roses:


more robot imagery here:


more doll imagery here:


Do it yourself violence doll. (note the secret recipe caption)


Secret Recipe

Pig Farm murders in pig slaughtering barn at Hells Angels hangout 'Piggy Palace' (Pickton biker cult linked to deaths of 56 Vancouver women):

Police found the severed heads, hands and feet of Ms. Joesbury and Ms. Abotsway stuffed into two white five-gallon plastic buckets lying on their side in a chest freezer at the back of a workshop on Pickton's suburban farm.

One pail was inserted into another. The uppermost bucket had the decomposed partial remains of Ms. Joesbury, her head cut vertically in two. Her left and right hands and the front part of her left and right feet were also in the bucket.

A bullet had entered the right rear of the head and exited through the left eye. Her jaw was divided by two cuts, one through the jaw and face up to the front of the bone near the top of the head and the second through the rear of the skull extending to the top of the head. The skull fractured where the two cuts ended. Police also found one of Ms. Joesbury's teeth in the bucket, court heard.

When police separated the buckets, they discovered the head, hands and feet of Ms. Abotsway in the bottom one. A cut had been made along the rear of the head, moving across the skull and stopping on the right of the forehead above the right eye. A second cut went through the centre of the face, stopping in the middle of the forehead. Court heard that police also found evidence of a decapitation between second and third vertebrae and a gun shot wound in the head.

Also, a shot had entered the head at the ear, passed through the brain and lodged in the lower section of the skull, Mr. Prevett told court. A .22 calibre bullet was recovered from the bucket, he said. The severed heads, hands and feet of Ms. Wilson, were found in a garbage pail outside a slaughterhouse on the pig farm. The skull had also been vertically bisected and a bullet had penetrated the back of the head. A bullet was recovered in the frontal lobe of her brain.

The Crown said police found only jawbone fragments of Ms. Frey and Ms. Wolfe. Ms. Wolfe's lower jawbone, with five teeth, was found in dirt and debris in a trough beside the slaughterhouse. A fragment of Ms. Frey's jaw with three teeth was found on the farm during an intensive excavation of the grounds.

Mr. Prevett also told the jurors that investigators found one bone from Ms. Papin's hand among a number of bones mixed with debris and manure in a pig pen outside the slaughterhouse of the Pickton farm. They did not find any other body parts of the six women.

But they found personal belongings of some women in Mr. Pickton's trailer, including Ms. Abotsway's asthma inhaler and Ms. Joesbury's date book. The investigators also found a .22 calibre revolver on a shelf above the furnace in the laundry room of the trailer. The barrel of the gun had a dildo (a sex toy) stretched over it. (guns n' roses fan?) The upper portion of the dildo yielded DNA profiles of both Mr. Pickton and Ms. Wilson.


Charles Manson's cult scrawled 'pig' in blood on the home of Roman Polanski

and Sharon Tate while murdering the 8 1/2 months pregnant Tate. Cult

lived on Spahn Ranch, CIA biker hangout/movie set where several Hells Angels movies were

filmed. (ranch was close to ranch owned by Howard Hughes)

Edited by thunkerdrone
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  • 5 months later...

9. Child murder in Atlanta

In 1978, Larry Flynt was prosecuted in the State of Georgia for violation of the pornography laws; it is here that he was shot, receiving a crippling injury which has confined him to a wheelchair. Certainly, his enemies were not the Satanists: to the contrary, Satanism, drugs, pornography flourished in this evil city, and do so to this day. Atlanta is sometimes called a crime capital of America.

According to drug enforcement experts, Atlanta became an important center for narcotics distribution with the upgrading and expansion of South American and Caribbean drug trafficking into Miami. The pattern is an expansion to routes into Georgia and Houston, Tex. Conjointly with this, Atlanta became more important as a center for drug cartel money-laundering operations.

It is certainly a regional capital for an international Satanic network. We shall show that the coverup which occurred at the time of the Atlanta Child Murders, has allowed Satanism to flourish there virtually unchecked.


*EDITED to insert source link - The article however contains a broken link, so the article is not complete*

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Thunker --

Not only do you know you're not supposed to cut and paste huge chunks of text like this, you know you have to give credit to the original author of the text.


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Thunkerdrone - can you please include a source link for this article or it will be removed.

2c. Copyrighted material: If you quote text from another web site then please properly credit the source. Not doing so constitutes plagiarism, always include a source link with quoted material. Members are asked to copy only as much as is necessary when quoting copyrighted material from other web sites, do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages.
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Members are also asked to avoid copying and pasting huge amounts of text from other web sites to support an argument. One or two quoted paragraphs and a source link are more than sufficient, and always include your own opinion to go along with any quoted material you use.

Thunker, Please include your source link and just the main points of the article or I will be forced to shorten it myself. :gun:

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This is by far the funniest thread I've ever seen.

It's even more in detail than the alleged MJ-12/Project Serpo/Area 51/Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind conspiracy theory.

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  • 4 months later...

check out this article revealing that serial killer Robert Pickton and brother Dave Pickton were Hells Angels bikers. Pickton has been convicted and linked to the disappearance

and murders of 56 Vancouver area women.

"In June, Dave Pickton was notified that the Crown was seeking to subpoena him for this trial, but that never happened. At the time, Dave Pickton told reporters he had more important things to do anyway – specifically, attending a Hells Angels rally in South Dakota."

Pickton 'was kind of Mom's boy'


Dec 03, 2007 04:30 AM

Rosie DiManno

NEW WESTMINSTER, B.C. - On a lovely fall evening, a 14-year-old boy was hit by a truck as he walked alongside a rural road.

The driver of that red GMC, himself only 16 and just recently having acquired a driver's licence, was understandably horrified. In a panic – leaving the victim there, still alive – he fled home and blurted to his mother what happened.

That woman, as a family friend later told author Stevie Cameron, was Louise Pickton, domineering and tough-minded mother of Robert "Willie" Pickton – the 58-year-old pig butcher who now awaits a jury's verdict on six first-degree murder charges.

Dave Pickton was the truck driver, younger and purportedly much more clever brother of the accused. And Louise Pickton, as portrayed in The Pickton File – indeed, as suggested by occasional references during this 10-month trial – was one formidable matriarch, two decades younger than a husband who seemed only peripherally involved in the upbringing of their three children.

Willie Pickton, it's claimed, actually recounted this story in later years: How his mom drove to the spot where the injured boy lay, checked him over, then leaned down to push and roll the youth into a ditch, some 10 feet distant. Then she went back home.

A coroner's report provided to the Star concluded the youth – Tim Barrett – drowned. While seriously injured when slammed by the vehicle, those traumas, a fractured pelvis and sub-cranial hemorrhage, would not have caused death.

Louise Pickton was never charged in connection with the incident. Dave Pickton's juvenile file remains sealed. And Willie Pickton, well, he was just a household observer to events.

It is irresistible to wonder, however, how the dynamics of the Pickton family helped forge his character, growing up on what was then an isolated farm, the most lumpen of the Pickton spawn. Like "two peas in a pod," Pickton told investigators of he and his mom. "Cranky" and "different" as sister Linda described Willie in a 2002 interview with the Vancouver Sun.

"Robert, he just adored Mom. He and Mom were so close. Robert was never close to Dad. Robert was kind of Mom's boy."

Courtroom testimony has been contradictory about Pickton's persona, variously described as kindly and contemptuous towards sex-trade workers, either a frequent client or someone with a dim libido.

In fact – apart from what the Crown has alleged Pickton did to the six drug-addicted prostitutes he's accused of murdering and dismembering – a history of violence against women has more quantifiably been mounted against little brother Dave: convicted in '93 of sexual assault and investigated in '98 over another assault.

While earlier telling police that each of her limbs had been tied to a corner of the bed with a bungee cord, and pills shoved into her mouth, the woman afterwards refused to testify against Dave in court and the investigation was dropped.

Dave Pickton remains, police have told court, a "person of interest" in this case, but there was never enough evidence against the man to justify charges.

He's never agreed to be formally interviewed.

In June, Dave Pickton was notified that the Crown was seeking to subpoena him for this trial, but that never happened. At the time, Dave Pickton told reporters he had more important things to do anyway – specifically, attending a Hells Angels rally in South Dakota.

This jury has heard that Dave Pickton had "disdain" for prostitutes. Unlike Willie, Dave had girlfriends, even a long-time common-law spouse who came to live on the farm when she was 17 – pitching in to help with the chores, as commanded by Mama Pickton.

Mama's dead. Papa's dead. Neither Dave nor Linda has ever attended Willie's trial.

Rosie DiManno usually appears Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday.

Found this on Pickton pig farm victim Stephanie Lane. Stephanie Lane worked as a stripper at a bar called 'Number 5 Orange', which was owned and operated by the Hells Angels:



Michele says that Stephanie, missing since January 1997, certainly would have made contact if she could have. Michele has been raising Stephanie's son, Stephan, since her disappearance when he was nine months old.

Stephanie, who would be 23 next month, was a stripper and table dancer at Number 5 Orange. Her stage name was Coco. She was addicted to heroin and cocaine.

Before she met the wrong guy in her mid-teens, she was a straight-A student and attended Britannia, Templeton and John Oliver secondary schools.

"She was pretty and very popular, and I guess I spoiled her. She was very important to me," said her mother.

"Now I've given up hope. I know she's dead."

It turns out that Number 5 Orange was owned and operated by the Hells



Last night, members of the Integrated Gang Unit entered the No. 5 Orange strip bar at Main & Powell St. They could be seen by a man standing in the free soup line up at the Sally Ann which parks across the street on Tuesday nights. "There were six of them," he says. "They had yellow stripes up the sides of their pants so I knew they were RCMP. They had dark jackets with 'Gang Unit' or "Gang something' on the back." They arrived in unmarked cars.




who owns the #5 orange?? jesus ****in christ....

February 3, 2008 7:17 AM

reliable sources said...

In answer to your question about who owns the #5 Orange, if you ask any Downtown Eastsider, the answer you will get is that it's owned by the Hell's Angels.

February 3, 2008 8:50 PM

(This column was published in the North Shore News on Aug. 1, 2001)

Project Nova worked well

By Leo Knight

THE sentencing last week of two members of the Hells Angels East End chapter brought to a close a saga which started five years ago.

Project Nova began in the wake of an extortion investigation into two senior Hells Angels called Project Breakpoint, which ended without prosecution, much to the frustration of police investigators angered by the decision to terminate a wiretap intercept warrant just days into the authorization.

Robert Molesberry had been a doorman at the Number 5 Orange strip bar in the Downtown Eastside. That was the legitimate part of his life. He also ran a marijuana grow-op for one Hells Angel and sold cocaine for two others.

He had a piece of bad luck when someone "ripped the grow," leaving him empty-handed and trying to explain the situation to the biker he worked for. He was "fined" $10,000 for his perceived transgression. He also owed two other Angels $1,500 for a fronted ounce of cocaine.

When he couldn't come up with the money he got kicked around behind the strip bar in a less than gentle reminder about his need to pay the assigned debt. This made him mad; after all, he had worked for the bikers for over two years and made them a ton of money. He found, much to his chagrin, that there is a price to be paid when you sleep with the devil.

Molesberry also ran an after-hours club for the bikers in Vancouver which was used by the Angels to move a lot of dope through. He later told police, "**** these guys. I made them so much money over the years and they do this to me. Well **** them."

With that, Molesberry became an agent for the Vancouver police. But, this also presented a problem for the two officers who interviewed him. They were concerned that the police and the Attorney General's office may be compromised and had no confidence that a long-term project could be run. Then-Vancouver Police department Const. Al Dalstrom, testified in court about the situation saying there were security concerns in the police community and "we wanted to take our investigation and work off-site somewhere away from the police community."

Dalstrom and his partner, Andy Richards, took a proposal to then-VPD Chief Constable Ray Canuel. They laid out what they needed and outlined their concerns. Canuel made a decision to fund an investigation from his contingency fund, then about $200,000. He also arranged for a team to be detached from Strike Force to work the file on a full-time basis, assigning Inspector Peter Ditchfield to oversee the investigation.

The last problem was the security issue and the possibility of the Hells Angels having compromised the police community. Canuel arranged to use an intercept room at regional CSIS headquarters as a base for the crew. Project Nova was born.

The subsequent years were a roller-coaster ride for the police officers involved. It only ended last week when East End chapter members Francisco "Chico" Pires and Ronaldo "Ronnie" Lissing were sentenced to four and a half years in federal prison for conspiracy to traffic in cocaine.

But, they weren't the only victories claimed by Project Nova. In fact, the investigation yielded an impressive score. By the time the operation was concluded the police had seized over $12 million in drugs, cash, property and weapons, 57 search warrants were executed and 76 people were charged with various offences. Most pled guilty including the last one in February, Romano Brienza, the former president of the Regulators. His brother is Vincenzo "Vinnie" Brienza, a senior member of the Haney chapter of the Hells Angels. He was arrested with a kilo of cocaine, 30 pounds of marijuana and a gun.

But the most important thing produced by Project Nova was the destruction of the Hells Angels' ability to say the police were wrong about them being an organized criminal group. In fact, on a radio talk show before Nova was terminated, Vancouver Chapter member and frequent spokesman for the bikers, Rick Ciarnello, dared Dalstrom to prove they were criminals. That's exactly what Dalstrom and his colleagues did.

In explaining the results of Nova to me, Dalstrom, now a sergeant with the Organized Crime Agency of B.C., said, "Nova showed the distinct networks of the Hells Angels and how their structures worked. For the first time, we were able to prove in court what we always said, the Angels are as much organized crime as the Mafia."

Realistically, Nova could have gone much further, but there was no more money. Said one of the investigators, "if the funding had been there we could have gone up the food chain. It's a lot less intensive to run an agent-based wire than to run a full-blown wire op. We control the agent and the meets. It takes money to play in this game and we didn't have it."

In fact, the agent, Molesberry, now in the witness protection program, made six hand-to-hand ounce-level cocaine purchases from the Angels. But when the agent couldn't come up with the money to make bigger purchases, the Angels determined he wasn't worth their time and handed him down to two "employees" further down in their network, losing the opportunity for the police to continue using the agent to make buys and climb the ladder of the organization. That's when they turned it into a full-blown wire/surveillance operation.

The officer shook his head at the irony of it. "We're the police and we couldn't afford to do business with them."

Edited by thunkerdrone
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I believe this is the thread, that convinced me to sign up. There was such awesome research in this thread, I had to become a member.
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check out this article revealing that serial killer Robert Pickton and brother Dave Pickton were Hells Angels bikers. Pickton has been convicted and linked to the disappearance

and murders of 56 Vancouver area women.

"In June, Dave Pickton was notified that the Crown was seeking to subpoena him for this trial, but that never happened. At the time, Dave Pickton told reporters he had more important things to do anyway – specifically, attending a Hells Angels rally in South Dakota."

Pickton 'was kind of Mom's boy'


Found this on Pickton pig farm victim Stephanie Lane. Stephanie Lane worked as a stripper at a bar called 'Number 5 Orange', which was owned and operated by the Hells Angels:

It turns out that Number 5 Orange was owned and operated by the Hells


(This column was published in the North Shore News on Aug. 1, 2001)

I was discussing money drops with someone on an unrelated site, dealing with something in my distant past as a business man in a major metro market. Mainstreet business.

There was a bar, and after that bar was no longer used for money drops, several years later I was watching the news.

Some kid disappeared from the parking lot, that was the last place that kid was ever seen again. The name changed. The owners changed. One has to wonder.

Bikers provided security for business deals in the bar. It was common to have an evelope on the table with $10,000 stuffed inside while we were having lunch.

All my business was legal, but I'll leave whatever else went down there to the imagination. The bars rotated and I never hung around with that crowd too much outside the legitimate business service I provided to the community.

Even if these things aren't layed out step by step on the news, they happen.

Makes a person wonder in relation to the story above.

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This is by far the funniest thread I've ever seen.

It's even more in detail than the alleged MJ-12/Project Serpo/Area 51/Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind conspiracy theory.

Nope. This thread taps into a deeper level of reality than you can get by living life through a television.

You have to go out and get your hands dirty. Some of the topics in this thread are out there and are very real, and if you're not careful of who you associate with, you might find yourself right in the middle of it.

Most people live in a false state of reality and live vicariously through the characters on television, never venturing out to see what's hiding in the darkness behind the fronts of those business they wander in off of the street to visit.

There are real people behind those businesses and what they engage in are the plot lines of television shows.

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