Why do *some" magicians take it upon them

[Bogeyman]

I'm talking specifically about Penn and Teller , Derren Browne and James Randi

There maybe more ....but why do these guys take it so much to heart that they feel they must persuade us there's no afterlife and nothing after death....how can being a master of Trickery make them so sure ?

[Mazewalker]

In answer to your question... I don't know.....

But, I just gotta make a comment about Penn and Teller.... Which one is it that does the talking? Gosh, he irritates the crap out of me! He's such a smart a@@! I wouldn't go see one of his shows if someone gave me a free ticket, limo ride and dinner afterward!

Edited February 8, 2007 by Mazewalker

[Celumnaz]

when you're familiar with something, you often begin to recognize it in other scenarios.

they see a similarity between the trickery they know, and other things like... religion I guess

then, many people when they think someone is being led astray, become evangelical about it... it becomes a duty to inform in their opinion

at least that's my opinion

[EmpressStarXVII]

Life after Death is the only thing the scientific method cant be applied to. Penn and Teller doesn't know, we dont know, priests dont know. It all comes down to faith. If somebody believes there is life after death, I don't see how it hurts somebody else.

[Rational-Thought]

I'm talking specifically about Penn and Teller , Derren Browne and James Randi

There maybe more ....but why do these guys take it so much to heart that they feel they must persuade us there's no afterlife and nothing after death....how can being a master of Trickery make them so sure ?

Hmmm - can you supply some quotes please. I don't think I've ever heard of these magicians trying to disprove that there is an afterlife, just that most(if not all) mediums are charlatans and ghosts don't really exist.

I'll freely admit that I'm wrong but as I say I can't remember any of those performers saying that there is no afterlife.

[Celumnaz]

They did a whole show on it on their "BS" show. Good show

[Rational-Thought]

They did a whole show on it on their "BS" show. Good show

Thanks, I don't think that made it over here but I've found some episodes on Youtube.com- I'll check it out.

Edited as Link didn't work

Edited February 8, 2007 by Rational-Thought

[boorite]

CSICOP and their magicians-turned-professional-ghostbusters are fine for busting frauds and cold readers. The problem is that they accuse authentic mediums of cold reading, and when these mediums are able to produce results under controlled laboratory conditions, and the CSICOP magicians cannot reproduce the results by cold reading, they simply refuse to acknowledge it. At best, people like Penn Jillette just keep going as if it never happened. At worst, they redouble their efforts to ridicule or defame anyone involved with such research, leaving no doubt that they are acting out of malice and with no concern for science or the truth. Their minds are closed. They have an axe to grind. And they make a good living doing it.

I think of them as the televangelists of materialism.

Edited February 9, 2007 by boorite

[Bogeyman]

They did a whole show on it on their "BS" show. Good show

Their Take on the NDE was totally sloppy ! They selectively picked two hippies to make the case....and failed to mention the thousands of recorded veridical NDEs that are documented. Theres also loads of evidenc of Blind people who've had NDEs and were able to describe what the doctors were doing and what they were wearing during the NDE.

They just put forward the dying brain theory again.This has been proved to be flawed many times.

More on NDE here

www.nderf.org

[Celumnaz]

I never said I believed them, as I do believe in an afterlife... just said it was a good show and tried to answer the question in the op... about why they feel it necessary...

I think pretty much all their shows are good shows. Very entertaining those guys. Better than Copperfield... Teller's got some scary talent.

[eqgumby]

I think they just despise fakes, as they can cause harm. Like the one recently, where the two boys were recovered. A psychic told the boys parents that their son was dead a few years back. Turns out she was fake. People like that suck.

[Opus Magnus]

Houdini tried to do this. I remember one time I was having a conversation with a psychiatrist about ESP and astral projection. His argument was that Houdini said it wasn't real, therefore it must not be since he was a master of illusions...

[uth]

I think of them as the televangelists of materialism.

That's good.. I'll have to remember that.

[rezna]

I too really enjoy their show. Penn can be very patronizing. BUT I enjoy how blunt he is. They are really just trying to find topics for their show that they can handle. THe show is called bull sh**. They are finding areas of life that seem like bull crap to them and then exposing the bull crap to others. It's really interesting how they do it. But they are extrememly biased. Maybe if Penn wasnt so biased about it all they would get more viewers.

In addition, I believe these magicians are trying to put a big wall between them and any paranormal type "magicians". You could say that a tarot reader, or head bump reader or whatever is pulling a fast one. They are like a magician of sorts. I think these guys are trying to keep themselves as far away from these other people as much as possible. And also to give themselves more credit for the feats they are able to pull off. No real paranormal magic needed for them. So if someone could use real magic for something, they would be out of work. See what I mean?

[Jon Lone]

Hmmm - can you supply some quotes please. I don't think I've ever heard of these magicians trying to disprove that there is an afterlife, just that most(if not all) mediums are charlatans and ghosts don't really exist.

I'll freely admit that I'm wrong but as I say I can't remember any of those performers saying that there is no afterlife.

I have myself witnessed dozens of ghosts and exorcisms. Trust me or don't doesnt matter. It all really exists

[itsnotoutthere]

Probebly because there are so many gulible people out there that are fooled by all those fakers like Colin Fry & John Edwards etc.

I'v seen magicians do exactly the same shows as the so called mediums, & the difference is that at least the magicians are honest.

Still there is money to be made from gulible clients.

[boorite]

Probebly because there are so many gulible people out there

Then explain why they don't believe you.

[itsnotoutthere]

Then explain why they don't believe you.

ooh, sharp, did you perhaps recognized a bit of yourself in my response?

[boorite]

ooh, sharp, did you perhaps recognized a bit of yourself in my response?

That wasn't sharp. It was a friendly joke. "If people are gullible, then why don't they believe you when you say they are gullible?" An appropriate response might be something like "ho ho, very funny," or even "lol " Next time, I will be sure to joke around with someone who has something resembling social skills.

(See, that was more along the lines of "sharp.")

[Barek Halfhand]

penn gillette annoys me with his NEED to express his atheism, that aside I remember a network special(think) Penn and Teller did this bit where the illusion was created of Teller drowing in a bowl of water and staring lifelessly into the camera...really freaky!! I'm sure it was at least 10 years ago , gonna google.....B

Edited February 20, 2007 by Barek Halfhand

[itsnotoutthere]

That wasn't sharp. It was a friendly joke. "If people are gullible, then why don't they believe you when you say they are gullible?" An appropriate response might be something like "ho ho, very funny," or even "lol " Next time, I will be sure to joke around with someone who has something resembling social skills.

(See, that was more along the lines of "sharp.")

now now settle down. I apolgise if i misunderstood you response no offence intended.

[boorite]

now now settle down. I apolgise if i misunderstood you response no offence intended.

No apology necessary! Just messing around. I think it's ok to antagonize each other as long as we genuinely smile when we do it. <--Like that.

[Lotus Flower]

Houdini tried to do this. I remember one time I was having a conversation with a psychiatrist about ESP and astral projection. His argument was that Houdini said it wasn't real, therefore it must not be since he was a master of illusions...

Yes I remember reading about Houdini, he was continuously trying to disprove Mediums - actually he spent quite a number of years in his pursuit of these people, by the looks of it, it became virtually an obsession!

Houdini saying astral projection and ESP weren't real (by the looks of it because he never experienced these things, otherwise it may have changed his views) is rather like a blind person saying to those that can see "I cannot see colour, therefore it doesn't exist", or a deaf person saying "I cannot hear therefore there is no sound" - for the blind and deaf this may be true, to them there is no colour or sound but to seeing and hearing abled people, there is indeed sound and colour, therefore I think the same thing goes for those that do experience unexplained incidents.

Just because Houdini or other illusionists try to debunk all paranormal things, does not mean they do not exist - they just don't exist for them.

[magician72120]

Speaking of Houdini..... Houdini definitely had an axe to grind. He was so distraught after his mother died. (yeah....Harry Houdini was a BIG "Mama's Boy") he sought the help of a medium that claimed she could make contact with the departed. In the "Seance", the medium claimed to have made contact with the dead woman. Harry believed her until the woman began "Spirit writing" a letter from Harry's mother...supposedly. This ruined the whole thing and made Harry FURIOUS. Immediately, he knew the woman was a fake, because the letter was written in English, and Houdini's mother spoke not a word of English!! From that point on, he made it his personal mission to defraud these people who were taking advantage of the mourning and charging big fees for their services. He even took his crusade to Congress and tried to get a law passed to outlaw these swindles.

However, in the back of Houdini's mind, he still thought that it MAY be possible to make contact with the dead, and promised Bess, his wife, that if he should pass, he would try to make contact with her on the anniversary of his death. For many, many years, Bess would conduct seances on the anniversary of Harry's death, until she eventually came to terms that he was NOT coming back. To authenticate his contact, the two agreed upon a code word that would only be known to the two of them, and when that code word was repeated in the seance, Bess would know that it really was Harry. Unfortunately, several years the later, the code word was leaked to a reporter, who published the code word. Of course, Houdini seances popped up everywhere and this code word was all the talk.