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crystal sage

Pineal health...

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crystal sage

Bacterial flora... a possible source of seratonin

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Yet they are also suggesting that too much seratonin is unhealthy..

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The leaking of serotonin from cells. There is some preliminary indication that serotonin is leaking out of cells in fibromyalgia. The cells appear to be releasing their serotonin into the blood’s plasma compartments. Testing showed that higher plasma to serum ratios of serotonin meant higher pain and anxiety. [11] In other words, the more the cells leak serotonin, the more pain and anxiety that is present. When serotonin is outside of cells, it can be very harmful.

:unsure2: Yet ... isn't this what some anti deppressants do? keep the seratonin from being absorbed...

Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor = Impairing Body Serotonin Metabolism

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How SSRI antidepressant drugs increase serotonin levels

The way Prozac, Paxil, Celexa and these other drugs increase serotonin levels is by impairing your body's ability to metabolize it. They literally interfere with your metabolism. As a result, serotonin will build up in the system.

But, when serotonin builds up, it will produce impulsive murder and suicide, depression, anxiety, irritability, pains around the heart, difficulty breathing, worsening of bronchial complaints, tension and anxiety, that appear from out of nowhere.

It will also produce reckless driving. (I was talking about Road Rage long before you heard the term.)

From the research that has been on-going for the last 50 years, we know that the build-up of serotonin in the brain — due to the body's inability to metabolize it — will produce these things. The list is long.

Edited by crystal sage

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FurthurBB

Do you people realize that fluoride is present in our water? That fluoride is actually toxic waste? Fluoride not only screws up your pineal gland but it causes you be more agreeable by suppressing your emotions. Some fluoride info:

-Fluoride was first introduced by Hitler in Nazi Germany (fluoridate the people and they aren't motivated to fight back)

-Fluoride is a key ingredient in anti-depressants (again, controls your emotional responses)

-Fluoride is the main ingredient in most pesticides (yes, and you drink it every day in your water)

-Fluoride is a gathered from toxic waste

-The only dental benefit of fluoride is when it is directly applied to your teeth, aka. toothpaste. Drinking it is toxic to your body and does nothing for your teeth.

-Excessive exposure to fluoride causes dental fluorisis (yellowing/pitting of the teeth)...it also does it to your bones.

Shouldn't we be asking the question, "why is our government putting it in our water?" Sounds like they want us all to be sick, doesn't it?

Fluoride was not first introduced by Hitler in Nazi Germany, it is a naturally occurring anion and the reduced form of Fluorine.

Fluoride is used in many medications because it is a natural enzyme inhibitor.

Since Fluoride can make compounds with all elements except helium and neon Fluorides are the main components of almost everything.

Fluoride and Fluorides can be derived from 1000s of different methods and in 1000s of different places.

Since Fluoride compounds are so diverse there is no general toxicity for Fluoride.

Dental Fluorisis only occurs between 3 months and 8 years of age and does not effect bones. Sodium Fluoride is used to treat osteoporosis.

Fluoride in the water helps to remineralize teeth and to stop the activity of cavity causing bacteria.

http://cro.sagepub.com/cgi/content/full/13/2/155

http://jdr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/87/4/340

http://anzhealthpolicy.com/content/4/1/25

http://www.adha.org/oralhealth/fluoride_facts.htm

http://www.aapd.org/publications/brochures/floride.asp

http://www.fluorideresearch.org/

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crystal sage

Fluoride was not first introduced by Hitler in Nazi Germany, it is a naturally occurring anion and the reduced form of Fluorine.

Fluoride is used in many medications because it is a natural enzyme inhibitor.

Since Fluoride can make compounds with all elements except helium and neon Fluorides are the main components of almost everything.

Fluoride and Fluorides can be derived from 1000s of different methods and in 1000s of different places.

Since Fluoride compounds are so diverse there is no general toxicity for Fluoride.

Dental Fluorisis only occurs between 3 months and 8 years of age and does not effect bones. Sodium Fluoride is used to treat osteoporosis.

Fluoride in the water helps to remineralize teeth and to stop the activity of cavity causing bacteria.

http://cro.sagepub.com/cgi/content/full/13/2/155

http://jdr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/87/4/340

http://anzhealthpolicy.com/content/4/1/25

http://www.adha.org/oralhealth/fluoride_facts.htm

http://www.aapd.org/publications/brochures/floride.asp

http://www.fluorideresearch.org/

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An additional and less well studied concern is the interaction of the fluoride compounds added to water with other water additives. Most studies examining the addition of fluoride to water have used sodium fluoride, however, most communities use the less expensive forms such as silicofluoride, hydrofluosilicic acid or sodium silicofluoride. A 1999 study of 280,000 Massachusetts children shows that levels of lead in blood were significantly higher in communities using these cheaper compounds than in towns where sodium fluoride was used or where the water was not treated at all. ("Children's Health and the Environment", 17th International Neurotoxicology Conference, Little Rock, Arkansas, October 17-20, 1999).

Aluminum compounds are frequently added to the water supply as clarifying agents. On its own, aluminum is not readily absorbed by the body, however, when fluoride is present, the two form aluminum-fluoride, which is easily absorbed. A long term study published in 1988 found that even low levels of aluminum-fluoride in drinking water delivered more aluminum to the brain than concentrated aluminum fluoride. The same study found that low levels of aluminum fluoride and sodium fluoride found in "optimally" fluoridated water cause severe kidney damage and lesions to the brain similar to those found in Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia. Dr. Robert Isaacson, State University of New York, found that when aluminum fluoride is added to the food of rats, the rats developed short-term memory problems, smell sensory loss and other characteristics of Alzheimer's disease. (Isaacson, R. "Rat studies link brain cell damage with aluminum and fluoride in water" State Univ. of New York, Binghampton, NY, Wall Street Journal article by Marilyn Chase; Oct. 28, 1992, p. B-6).

Interesting discussion here.. points for both sides...

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[Fluoride in Drinking Water/url]

But what grade of fluoride is really used in our drinking water... compared to the pharmaceutical grade fluoride used in research ???

There is ample admitted evidence that lowgrade industrial byproducts are used in some supplies... We have all heard of corruption in all levels of government... corporate.. individual.. whether for profit.. position... justified by basic ignorance?? as in Fluoride id Fluoride.. it doesn't matter where it comes from...

eg: My link

The Phosphate Fertilizer Industry: An Environmental Overview

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?????

90% of the fluoride used to fluoridate US water systems comes from the pollution scrubbing devices of the phosphate fertilizer industry. It is industrial grade, not pharmaceutical grade.

So should they redo all these experiments justifying the use of Fluoride.. using the actual grade of Fluoride they put in the waters of all those who are suffering the negative effects... be it industrial waste .....

Edited by crystal sage

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crystal sage

and then when adding these chemicals.. whatever grade it is... are there strict controls ever the amounts added?

Look at what happened in Australia...

ALMOST 30 times the recommended fluoride was accidentally added to Brisbane water supplies two weeks ago.

Premier Anna Bligh today said the first breach of safety guidelines had occurred between 9am and midday on Friday May 1.

Tell us: Have authorities informed you that your home was one of those affected by the fluoride overdose?

The water should have had 1.5 milligrams per litre of fluoride but test results released this week showed it had between 30 and 31 milligrams per litre.

About 300,000 litres of water was released from a fluoride treatment plant at North Pine Dam.

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:unsure2: I wonder how often that has happened throughout the world.. and if they always put the right stuff in??

:angry2:

and not to forget Aquatic life... the birds...

"Because, in soft waters with low ionic content, a fluoride concentration as low as 0.5 mg/l can adversely affect invertebrates and fishes, safe levels below this fluoride concentration are recommended in order to protect freshwater animals from fluoride pollution." - Camargo JA. (2003). Fluoride toxicity to acquatic oganisms: a review. Chemosphere 50(3): 251-264.

"An interim water quality guideline of 0.12 mg F/L is recommended for the protection of all stages of freshwater life against the adverse effects of total inorganic fluorides." - Environment Canada. (2001). Canadian Water Quality Guidelines for the Protection of Aquatic Life: Inorganic Fluorides. National Guidelines and Standards Office, Environmental Quality Branch, Environment Canada, Ontario.

... and our plant life...

"Depending on plant species and on concentration, hydrogen fluoride is 10 to 1000 times more harmful than sulfur dioxide." - Guderian R. (1977). Air Pollution: Phytotoxicity of Acidic Gases and Its Significance in Air Pollution Control. Berlin: Springer Verlag.

"Some forms of vegetation are so sensitive to fluoride exposures that to avoid injury air concentrations must be maintained below 1 part per billion." - Hodge HC, Smith FA. (1977). Occupational fluoride exposure. Journal of Occupational Medicine. 19: 12-39.

“As research in air pollution and plant life advanced, it became clear that of the major airborne pollutants, inorganic fluoride was clearly the most toxic. Whereas threshold concentrations for ozone or sulfur dioxide that will produce an irreversible effect were found to be generally above 0.05 ppm for exposure periods of about 7 days, and more than double that concentration and time for nitrogen dioxide, gaseous hydrogen fluoride could cause a metabolic or physiologic change and produce lesions on leaves of the most sensitive species at 0.001 ppm (1 ppb v/v, or 0.8 ugHFm3) or less for similar durations of exposure. Only peroxyacetylnitrate, a constituent of photochemical smog, can rival this extreme phytotoxicity." - Weinstein LH. (1983). Effects of Fluorides on Plants and Plant Communities: An Overview. In: Shupe JL, Peterson HB, Leone NC, eds. (1983). Fluorides: Effects on Vegetation, Animals, and Humans. Salt Lake City, Utah: Paragon Press.

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Birds,

for they relative body masses,

are more sensitive to man's reactive fluorides

than are you! --

For their size, they drink and vaporize much more water

than you!

Birds cannot expel the water dissolved or suspended toxins

through skin sweat glands, neither can they expel through urination, as can you!

-- so they must be considered and protected from them!

Edited by crystal sage

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FurthurBB

None of this has anything to do with what I posted. I was just responding to a post where all the information contained in it was just false.

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crystal sage

None of this has anything to do with what I posted. I was just responding to a post where all the information contained in it was just false.

:tu:

Just think many young children get fluoride pastes put on their teeth to "protect them" .. strengthen their teeth after they are cleaned by the dentist...

Also I read up on what is in those new white resin fillings... to seal the teeth.. it is mostly made up of fluoride !!! That slowly disolves...

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Releases fluoride

Conseal f combines the proven SDI sealant technology with an intensive initial fluoride boost in conjunction with long term fluoride treatment. The unique Conseal f filler component, with its blend of particles and high surface-to-area volume ratios, enables high fluoride release. Fluoride enhances caries prevention, remineralization, and the inhibition of enamel demineralization.

Edited by crystal sage

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crystal sage
FurthurBB

:tu:

Just think many young children get fluoride pastes put on their teeth to "protect them" .. strengthen their teeth after they are cleaned by the dentist...

Also I read up on what is in those new white resin fillings... to seal the teeth.. it is mostly made up of fluoride !!! That slowly disolves...

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White resin fillings do not contain fluoride only glass ionomer fillings contain fluoride and they do not dissolve. Most dentists use composite or amalgam fillings.

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crystal sage

White resin fillings do not contain fluoride only glass ionomer fillings contain fluoride and they do not dissolve. Most dentists use composite or amalgam fillings.

Amalgam fillings release mercury... and many of the other versions do contain fluoride.. I gather it is about being aware which contains what and which is best...

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Silicate and Glass Ionomer restorations are also less wear resistant than composite resin fillings and do not last as long. In addition, neither silicate or glass ionomer filling materials can match the natural appearance of composite resin. On the positive side, these restorations are capable of releasing fluoride into the tooth structure they are bonded to and in doing so strengthen the tooth and make it more resistant to decay.
Once all the decay is removed, your dentist will shape the space to prepare it for the filling. Different types of fillings require different shaping procedures to make sure they will stay in place. Your dentist may put in a base or a liner to protect the tooth's pulp (where the nerves are). The base or liner can be made of composite resin, glass ionomer, zinc oxide and eugenol or another material.

Some of these materials release fluoride to protect the tooth from further decay.

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Fluoride Varnish

Varnishes are available as sodium fluoride (2.26% [22,600 ppm] fluoride) or difluorsilane (0.1% [1,000 ppm] fluoride) preparations.

High-concentration fluoride varnish is painted by dental or other health care professionals directly onto the teeth. Fluoride varnish is not intended to adhere permanently; this method holds a high concentration of fluoride in a small amount of material in close contact with the teeth for many hours. Varnishes must be reapplied at regular intervals with at least 2 applications per year required for effectiveness. All fluoride varnish must be applied by a dentist or other health care provider

:mellow::blink::(

Fluoride Supplements

Tablets, lozenges, or liquids (including fluoride-vitamin preparations) are available. Most supplements contain sodium fluoride as the active ingredient. Tablets and lozenges are manufactured with 1.0, 0.5, or 0.25 mg fluoride.

Fluoride supplements can be prescribed for children at high risk for tooth decay and whose primary drinking water has a low fluoride concentration. To maximize the topical effect of fluoride, tablets and lozenges are intended to be chewed or sucked for 1-2 minutes before being swallowed.

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crystal sage

But then again.. you forget that our food supply also contains a significant amount of fluoride.. many teas for example have a notable amount of fluoride. Its the irrigation from fluoridated waters..

Best buy teas from areas where the water hasn't been fluoridated..

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and some aluminium !!!!

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During the studies, the effects of pH and time on the formation of Al-F complexes and interference of some metal ions found in tea infusion such as Al3+, Mg2+, Fe2+, Fe3+ and Mn2+ on the concentration of free fluoride were investigated. The concentration of each Al-fluoride complexes in tea fusion were determined indirectly by calculation using pF-Mole Fraction Diagram. It was found that 1.13±0.15 mg 1-1 of 12.00±0.86 mg 1-1 total aluminium is fluoride bound aluminium, which means that appoximately 10% of total aluminium in tea infusion is complexed with fluoride

Melbourne water is considered some of the best in the world... yet...

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Melbourne Water met its water pressure requirements for 2006/07. Monthly targets must be met and 99.6% compliance is required overall for the year. We also met compliance requirements for drinking water in regard to microbiological standards, disinfection by-products and turbidity of the drinking water, but we did not meet the target for aluminium, which relates to aesthetic characteristics not health impacts

:hmm:

Sometimes you can barely drink it because of the strong smell of chlorine...

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Aluminium Sulfate is used in water purification

population from a water supply facility using aluminium sulfate for treatment

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People drink a lot more water these days than ever before...

Aluminum is also an additive in most baking powders, is used in food processing, and is present in antiperspirants, toothpaste, dental amalgams, bleached flour, grated cheese, table salt, and beer, (especially when the beer is in aluminum cans). The biggest source of aluminum, however, comes from our municipal water supplies
Edited by crystal sage

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crystal sage

:unsure2:

FLUORIDE COMBINES WITH ALUMINIUM IN DRINKING WATER.

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Following the Varner, et al aluminium fluoride studies in which 80% of the experimental rats died before the end of the experiment the United States Environmental Protection Agency was sufficiently alarmed to push the National Toxicology Program (NTP) to do further research

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crystal sage

PINEAL GLAND - Impact of Fluoride Toxicity

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This study has added new knowledge on the fate and distribution of fluoride in the body. It has shown for the first time that fluoride readily accumulates in the human pineal gland although there was considerable inter-individual variation (14-875 mg F/kg). By old age, the average pineal gland contains about the same amount of fluoride as teeth (300 mg F/kg) since dentine and whole enamel contain 300 and 100 mg F/kg, respectively [Newbrun, 1986]. Unlike brain capillaries, pineal capillaries allow the free passage of fluoride through the endothelium. If there had been a bloodbrain barrier in the pineal, it would have prevented the passage of fluoride into the pinealocytes and the pineal fluoride content would have been similar to or lower than muscle. This was obviously not the case: the fluoride concentration of the pineal was significantly higher (p<0.001) than muscle. The high fluoride levels in the pineal are presumably due to the large surface area of the HA crystallites both intra- and extracellularly. In addition, the pineal has a profuse blood flow and high capillary density; pineal blood flow (4 ml/min/g) is second only to the kidney [Arendt, 19951.

The extent of pineal calcification also varied between individuals: ranging from 4,600 to 37,250 mg Ca/kg wet weight. One of the aged pineals had very little precipitation. This supports the age independence of pineal calcification and agrees with previous studies [Cooper, 1932; Arieti, 1954; Tapp and Huxley, 197 1; Hasegawa et aL, 1987; Galliani et al., 1990]. The estimated fluoride concentration of pineal HA was 9,000 ± 7,800 mg/kg. The F/Ca ratio was higher in pineal HA than in corresponding bone (fig. 2). The extremely high level of substitution in the crystal structure of pineal HA by fluoride illustrates the readiness with which fluoride replaces the hydroxyl ion in the HA crystal. By old age, pineal HA has a higher fluoride content than other biological apatites. Unlike pineal concentrations of magnesium, manganese, zinc and copper, which, although very high, were generally within the

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Edited by crystal sage

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FurthurBB

Amalgam fillings release mercury... and many of the other versions do contain fluoride.. I gather it is about being aware which contains what and which is best...

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:mellow::blink::(

Amalgam fillings cannot release mercury if they have none and most have none. As far as your fluorine obsession, you constantly make up your own facts and then go about proving them. Have fun with that.

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crystal sage

Exploring the benefits of added vitamin D as it appears that many people these days seem to be deficient in Vitamin D. Not enough sunlight.. They mention it is critical in hormonal function.. and boosting the immune system.

Well I decided to explore it's link to Seratonin and Melatonin production to see if this information pans out.

So found this interesting article..

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Commonly Used Antidepressants May Also Affect Human Immune System, which is a high-hype way of presenting a finding that some types of immune cells appear to communicate using serotonin as a signal. To be precise, the dendritic cells, a type of antigen-presenting cell in the immune system, can uptake and relase serotonin, which in turn excites T-cells in a rapid fashion. Thus, manipulation of serotonin by pharmacological agents (as in treatment of depression) may have - as yet unknown - effects on the immune system.

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The interrelation between FGF-23, vitamin D and soft tissue calcification is not yet clear. Although the dramatic impact of abnormal tissue calcification on the prognosis of haemodialysis patients has become progressively clear, the potential contribution of vitamin D metabolites to the genesis and progression of this complication has not been studied extensively, maybe due to our inability to monitor coronary artery calcifications on a regular basis. However, the recent development of electron beam computed tomography has provided a means to quantify coronary artery calcifications in vivo, and this tool, among others, has helped us to recognize that an elevated calcium–phosphate product and the dietary calcium load thought to be of safe range are actually not as safe as anticipated, warranting further molecular studies to understand the complex process of cardiovascular calcification. The recently generated Fgf-23 null mouse has provided a unique tool to study the in vivo effects of vitamin D in development of abnormal soft tissue calcification in a hyperphosphatemic microenvironment, a situation close to the condition of dialysis patients receiving vitamin D treatment
melatonin enhances immune response. Exposure to constant light, which supresses melatonin synthesis and release, inhibits both the cellular and the humoral immunity''''''

So, if melatonin boosts immunity, we can expect serotonin to do the opposite, i.e., to supress the immune response. Does that mean that taking Prozac is bad for your immune response?

In the paper, a series of experiments in nude rats with hepatomas and in rats with transplants of human breast cancer tissue, shows that a) exposure to constant light decreases melatonin, B) both the rat and the human cancer cells express melatonin receptors, c) perfusion with melatonin-rich blood slows down cancer and d) perfusion with melatonin-depleted blood speeds up cancer. Out of several different treatments, one of the types of melatonin-depleted blood came from women working in bright light during night shift.

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The effect of melatonin on cancer tissues was direct, via a linoleic acid pathway. But, considering the paper I discussed above, isn't it reasonable to expect that effects of bright light at night will also have an effect on immunity, i.e., the supression of melatonin release would supress immune response and also allow the cancers to form and spread? It is well known, after all, thet night-shift nurses tend to suffer much more, from a variety of diseases including breats cancer, than nurses that always work day-shifts.

Then there is the Tryptophan. ( known to be important in seratonin production). which seems critical to the vitamin D metabolism ?

. Here we show that tryptophan 286 of the hVDR is critical for ligand binding and transactivation of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 [1,25(OH)2D3] target genes. Two mutants of the hVDR were produced, W286A and W286F, in which the tryptophan was replaced with an alanine or a phenylalanine, respectively. The W286A mutant did not bind 1,25(OH)2D3, interact with steroid receptor coactivator 1 (SRC-1) in vitro, or activate transcription. Moreover, the W286A receptor did not heterodimerize in a ligand-dependent manner with the human retinoid X receptor alpha (hRXRalpha). Although the W286F receptor heterodimerized with hRXRalpha, interacted with SRC-1, and bound 1,25(OH)2D3, its capacity to transactivate was attenuated severely. Thus, tryptophan 286 of hVDR plays an important role in specific 1,25(OH)2D3 ligand interaction and subsequently in hVDR/RXR interaction, SRC-1 binding, and ligand-dependent transactivation of 1,25(OH)2D3 target genes

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The importance of tryptophan...

Tryptophan is an amino acid (L-Tryptophan), one of the building blocks of protein, but unlike some amino acids,

Tryptophan is considered essential because the body cannot manufacture its own. Tryptophan plays many roles in

animals and humans alike, but perhaps most importantly, it is an essential precursor to a number of neurotrans- mittters (Serotonin being one of the most important) in the brain. As such, Tryptophan is the only substance that can be converted into Serotonin. Since Serotonin, in turn is converted into Melatonin, which has been shown in several good studies to assist in sleep, Tryptophan clearly plays an instrumental role in balancing mood and sleep patterns. Tryptophan may also be of some benefit in the treatment of some psychiatric disorders.

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The roundtable participants were particularly concerned about the need to evaluate the safety of vitamin D within the context of long-term exposures, because we need intake recommendations for exposures throughout the life span. The 5-y timeframe of most National Institutes of Health grants is not sufficient to assess safety across a lifetime. Most currently available evidence is based on short-term exposure (6 mo), so generalizations from these data to long-term exposures are problematic. In addition, most current evidence is limited to adult populations, and few data are available on infants, children, and other potentially vulnerable groups.

Traditionally, clinical trials may lack systematic procedures and protocols for collecting and reporting information on adverse effects. As a result, safety evaluations based on trial data might be biased against finding adverse effects. We can and should considerably improve the collection of information on adverse events in ongoing and future vitamin D trials.

Another concern expressed by the roundtable participants is the need for more data on potential nonskeletal effects of long-term, high doses of vitamin D. Bone-focused approaches to toxicity evaluations might be short-sighted, given the host of other potential adverse outcomes, such as aortic calcification. Many studies have not rigorously examined soft tissue calcification and other adverse outcomes.

Edited by crystal sage

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crystal sage
“We were surprised at how much melatonin was in cherries, specifically the Montmorency variety,” says Reiter. The only other fruits that have been examined to date are bananas and pineapples, and both have comparatively low melatonin levels. “Cherry Juice Concentrate, which involves greatly reducing the water content, has ten times the melatonin of the raw fruit.” (1)

Produced in the pineal gland at the base of the brain, melatonin helps control sleepiness at night, wakefulness in daytime and functions as an antioxidant to help the body destroy free radicals. (2) Recent research conducted by Dr. Reiter at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio, Texas quantified the availability and activity of melatonin found in cherry products. The results were astonishing. Cherries contain an extremely significant quantity of melatonin, enough to product positive results in the body.

Montmorency cherries, which account for the majority of tart cherries produced in the United States, contain up to 13.5 nanograms (ng) of melatonin per gram of cherries, more than is normally found in the blood. (3)

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Melatonin Hormone Found in Red Wine Grapes

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The skins of red grapes contain trace amounts of melatonin, which are then concentrated during the fermentation process

(1.8 nanogram melatonin per gram of oats).

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crystal sage

More of interest in this topic... :)  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228648887_The_pineal_complex_of_reptiles_Physiological_and_behavioral_roles  suggests pineal are necessary for functioning.. yet with alligators and crocodiles they are not???  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227053032_Circadian_organization_of_an_animal_lacking_a_pineal_organ_the_young_American_alligatorAlligator_mississippiensis

(quote) The vertebrate pineal gland is the primary source of melatonin, the rhythmic secretion of which is influenced by environmental light and temperature, thereby providing animals with information about seasonally changing photoperiod and thermoperiod. Although pineal glands are present in the majority of vertebrate species, a discrete organ is reported to be absent in the Crocodilia. However, if the melatonin rhythm is crucial to the survival of the organism, it would be expected that the rhythm would be present in crocodiles. In the present study, we measured blood plasma melatonin over a 30-h period in aestivating Australian freshwater crocodiles (Crocodylus johnstoni) in their natural habitat at the end of the dry season (November) and found no discernible melatonin rhythm. However, another group of captive-reared C. johnstoni, maintained under natural light and temperature cycles and sampled in the early dry season (June) showed a clear melatonin rhythm. These results suggest that there is either an extrapineal source of melatonin in this crocodile species or that there is melatonin producing tissue elsewhere which heretofore has not been discovered. Further studies are needed to determine why the melatonin rhythm is intermittently expressed and whether this may be related to seasonal changes in the expression of the rhythm linked to tropical environments. (quote) http://espace.cdu.edu.au/view/cdu:37241

Edited by crystal sage
needed to include point of interest.

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crystal sage

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15776305_Nonpineal_melatonin_in_the_alligator_Alligator_mississippiensis  It appears that in archasaurs dinasaurs ? ...    alligators and crocodiles there are no pineal glands yet have melatonin.. ? A nonpinneal source of melatonin? They suggest it comes from their Harderian glands which seem to be unusually large in alligators and crocodiles.. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0940960206000367  that female crododiles/alligators produced melatonin constantly and males only... ( read figure 2) ... So interesting.. seems that the Harderian gland is slowly evolving out of humans? or not ?? .. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8843648 

Edited by crystal sage

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crystal sage

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0940960206000367

Quote

The Harderian gland, an anterior orbital structure, is either absent or vestigial in primates. This is based upon gross anatomical observations of scattered adult specimens. Though largely absent in the adult human, it is present in the fetal and neonatal stages. Thus, histological examination of the orbital region of neonatal material was undertaken in other primates. The orbital region of neonatal specimens of 12 species of strepsirrhines (Lemuriformes and Lorisiformes), and haplorhine (tarsiers and callitrichids) was examined. The Harderian gland is ensconced in either periorbital fat or connective tissue and thus was not readily identifiable gross anatomically. Thus, it may have been missed in the anatomical studies

 

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Quote

Harderian glands, first described by Jacob Harder in two species of deer in 1694, are large, intraorbital glands which, with but few exceptions, are found in all land vertebrates. Certainly, their relatively large size, their phylogenetic age, and persistent conservation in all groups as they emerged from an aqueous to an air/land environment lend strong support to the logical deduction that they probably play an important role in the physiological adaptation to terrestrial life. Yet, few biologists know even what or where these glands are. For a variety of reasons, the Harderian glands have not received the attention they deserve and, as a result, the published works available have been scarce and scattered throughout the world literature. The current situation is remarkably similar to that which existed in regard to the pineal gland prior to the mid-1960s, i. e. , scattered literature, unknown function, few investigators, and little interest. Yet, following a few key papers, interest in the pineal gland expanded and soon an explosive increase in the knowledge and understanding of the pineal gland took place and continues today. Will history repeat itself? Originally, a few of us discussed the desirability of an informal Symposium on the Harderian glands

.   http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642766879

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