WTC7 Refutation Needed

[An Urban Legend]

A bursting pipe or the backup generators. With not knowing everything that was in the building its hard to narrow down. There was a lot of diesel fuel in the building though.

lol. There you go, giving it some creative thought. A bursting pipe......eh no. Backup generators, possible if fire were on that floor, but nothing conclusive. It all depends on the location of these things and how widespread was the fire. Still asking me to believe wtc7 collapsed unto its own footprint due to fire, without damaging surrounding buildings is pushing past the line of knowledge to ignorance.

[jimmyphelps]

All types of fuels fumes are explosive.

Did anyone say there wasn't an explosion?

You're a ****ing idiot.

Ok Mr. Magnesium

[Ashigaru]

Ok Mr. Magnesium

Translation: You're right so I cant argue so I'm going to make myself look like an idiot.

[jimmyphelps]

Excuse me ,Did I ever state that fumes werent explosive??

No sir i didnt.Did i get so upset that i had to break forum rules

and call you derogatory names? No sir I did not

what exactly are you supposed to be right about this time?

thanks for posting

[An Urban Legend]

Normally I stay out of this area of UM for various reasons. Mostly because of the inevitable bickering which leads to closed threads. Any ways do you know everything that goes into such a massive building? Every piece of equipment? Every potential item that will blow up if subjected to enough heat and might have been in those buildings? I'm guessing no. I'm not sure there is anyone who could account for every single one of these items that was in those buildings. A multitude is probably a very correct term.

Yes, of course we all know there are a lot of equipment within buildings, but...not all of that equipment could cause an explosion as loud and roaring as heard in the videos. Come on, computers, faxes, water pipes, and besides the fire wernt on every floor, only 3. Actually, to produce those loud explosions in the videos that would require "a multitude" of things all being set off or burned at once, because its not just 1 explosion witnesses heard, but many. All loud enough to be heard from a block away, before, and during the collapse. Edited February 23, 2007 by An Urban Legend

[Ashigaru]

So am I to assume you post for no reason?

There you go AUL!!!!

ha ha like fish in a barrel

he said explosion check and mate

By saying this you are implying someone said there was no explosion.

Excuse me ,Did I ever state that fumes werent explosive??

Diesel Fuel

Not gasoline

This implies diesel fumes aren't explosive.

Did you flunk out of high school? Or are you still in your 8th year?

Edited February 23, 2007 by Ashigaru

[jimmyphelps]

It implies no such thing

for your information and knowledge base

ill give you this lil tidbit of knowledge

gasoline has a flashpoint of -45 degrees F

and diesel fuel? Its flashpoint 100 degrees F

notice the 150 degree difference? what does

that tell the average person?

that gasoline is far far more volatile than

diesel fuel

thanks for posting

[Ashigaru]

Thanks for that completely irrelevant bit of information.

[jimmyphelps]

take two five gallon gas cans fill one with 1/4 gallon of gasoline

and the other 1/4 gallon of diesel fuel

Light a match toss it in the diesel fuel can......what happened nothing!!!

Light a match toss it in the gasoline fuel can....................call me when your out of the hospital to let me know what happened

it was completly relevant to my point everyone of course understands that

exept maybe you

[Ashigaru]

rofl

I have thrown matches into gasoline and its never exploded. I've also thrown matches into diesel and it burned.

[An Urban Legend]

Omg, lol you two have been going at it for a while now. Almost like Jerry Springer but on a forum.

[Ashigaru]

It's not much but it passes the time.

[itsnotoutthere]

There was a BBC documentary on Sunday 18th which can still been seen on Teleport replay that explaines every aspect of this rediculous conspiracy theory.

It makes all the proponents of this dumb theory look decidedly silly, & made me feel desparately sad for the relatives of the deceased who have to put up with this nonsence.

It seems that the whole theory is based on twisted info. & schoolboy film makers (who look to get rich from film rights). & other characters with an axe to grind.

[jimmyphelps]

There was a BBC documentary on Sunday 18th which can still been seen on Teleport replay that explaines every aspect of this rediculous conspiracy theory.

It makes all the proponents of this dumb theory look decidedly silly, & made me feel desparately sad for the relatives of the deceased who have to put up with this nonsence.

It seems that the whole theory is based on twisted info. & schoolboy film makers (who look to get rich from film rights). & other characters with an axe to grind.

Quit spamming all of the threads with the same post

[An Urban Legend]

There was a BBC documentary on Sunday 18th which can still been seen on Teleport replay that explaines every aspect of this rediculous conspiracy theory.

It makes all the proponents of this dumb theory look decidedly silly, & made me feel desparately sad for the relatives of the deceased who have to put up with this nonsence.

It seems that the whole theory is based on twisted info. & schoolboy film makers (who look to get rich from film rights). & other characters with an axe to grind.

I already seen the crap. It was as fair and balanced as a fox news piece. And acutally that "documentary" omitted key facts about 9/11 that wouldnt give debunkers a leg to stand on, why didnt anybody mention that before 9/11 Muhammad Atta was wired 100,000 dollars by the Head of the Pakistani ISI, and on the morning of 9/11 that same general was at breakfast meetings in Washington with the top of the brass of the U.S government???? Still something uninvestigated! Oppps, forgot about that, they even forgot to mention those facts from NIST's investigation which proves there were no raging infernos in either of the towers and was no pancake collapse. Yeah, lets not talk about that, continue to bask in ignorance.

You call hard facts a dumb theory; you see thats the difference between what we say and what you say, we're using facts to disprove the official story and all you use is adhominem type insults to try and get people to discredit what we say by making it appear silly, when in reality it proven fact. You call the info twisted, only because you failed to realize its proven facts. And dont feel sorry for the families who supposedly put up with these "conspiracy theories" because guess what? They're asking the same questions everyone else against the official story is and they're unanswered because the government refuses to answer them. And the governments actions of giving nonresponses is actually an answer in itself! If they actually answer one legitimate question about 9/11 the answer to that question will inevitably point back to them, thats why there isnt a response to the hard questions.

Last, if you're not going to engage in this "discussion" with anything factual or some sort of counter to anything being said, its best to just keep your spam post to yourself like Jimmy said.....

[itsnotoutthere]

Quit spamming all of the threads with the same post

Same dumb conspiracy

[itsnotoutthere]

I already seen the crap. It was as fair and balanced as a fox news piece. And acutally that "documentary" omitted key facts about 9/11 that wouldnt give debunkers a leg to stand on, why didnt anybody mention that before 9/11 Muhammad Atta was wired 100,000 dollars by the Head of the Pakistani ISI, and on the morning of 9/11 that same general was at breakfast meetings in Washington with the top of the brass of the U.S government???? Still something uninvestigated! Oppps, forgot about that, they even forgot to mention those facts from NIST's investigation which proves there were no raging infernos in either of the towers and was no pancake collapse. Yeah, lets not talk about that, continue to bask in ignorance.

You call hard facts a dumb theory; you see thats the difference between what we say and what you say, we're using facts to disprove the official story and all you use is adhominem type insults to try and get people to discredit what we say by making it appear silly, when in reality it proven fact. You call the info twisted, only because you failed to realize its proven facts. And dont feel sorry for the families who supposedly put up with these "conspiracy theories" because guess what? They're asking the same questions everyone else against the official story is and they're unanswered because the government refuses to answer them. And the governments actions of giving nonresponses is actually an answer in itself! If they actually answer one legitimate question about 9/11 the answer to that question will inevitably point back to them, thats why there isnt a response to the hard questions.

Last, if you're not going to engage in this "discussion" with anything factual or some sort of counter to anything being said, its best to just keep your spam post to yourself like Jimmy said.....

Your response comes across like ..stop spoiling our theory, it's are so leave it alone. stop pi**ing on our parade.

[An Urban Legend]

Your response comes across like ..stop spoiling our theory, it's are so leave it alone. stop pi**ing on our parade.

And you're one liner responses come across like a 9 year old trying to enter an adult conversation.........

[itsnotoutthere]

OK.. so if we go along with your assertion, lets boil it all down to the essence.

Are you saying that George Bush sanctioned or ordered the murder of approximately 3000 of his fellow citizens,

Am i right in thinking that you are saying that your president is the biggest mass murderer in american history...is this your assertion...yes or no.?

[An Urban Legend]

OK.. so if we go along with your assertion, lets boil it all down to the essence.

Are you saying that George Bush sanctioned or ordered the murder of approximately 3000 of his fellow citizens,

Am i right in thinking that you are saying that your president is the biggest mass murderer in american history...is this your assertion...yes or no.?

Ah ah ah, thats "complex questioning", I cant give a simple yes or no answer to that question fore it requires an elaborated answer, nore is this the thread to discuss such topics. The subject of this thread is WTC7 Refutation Needed, not is George Bush a mass murderer. Although I wont discuss it here, feel free to pm me about it, I'll discuss as much as your heart desires.

[itsnotoutthere]

Ah ah ah, thats "complex questioning", I cant give a simple yes or no answer to that question fore it requires an elaborated answer, nore is this the thread to discuss such topics. The subject of this thread is WTC7 Refutation Needed, not is George Bush a mass murderer. Although I wont discuss it here, feel free to pm me about it, I'll discuss as much as your heart desires.

I don't call that a complex question at all. It's the simplest of questions. If what you say is actually what you believed happened then you must believe that George Bush sanctioned the operation ..yes or no?

[itsnotoutthere]

Ah ah ah, thats "complex questioning", I cant give a simple yes or no answer to that question fore it requires an elaborated answer, nore is this the thread to discuss such topics. The subject of this thread is WTC7 Refutation Needed, not is George Bush a mass murderer. Although I wont discuss it here, feel free to pm me about it, I'll discuss as much as your heart desires.

I don't call that a complex question at all. It's the simplest of questions. If what you say is actually what you believed happened then you must believe that George Bush sanctioned the operation ..yes or no?

You say above..nore is this the thread to discuss such topics Surely this goes streight to the heart of the matter. Again, are you saying that The president of the U.S.A sanctioned the deaths of 3000 of his fellow americans..yes or no?

[An Urban Legend]

I don't call that a complex question at all. It's the simplest of questions. If what you say is actually what you believed happened then you must believe that George Bush sanctioned the operation ..yes or no?

Wow. You're not educated on what the fallacy of "complex quesitoning" is, so briefly I'll educate you.

This fallacy is often included in sections on Fallacies of Ambiguity because the hidden premises introduce uncertainty into the argument. There are two types of this fallacy. Here, however, I am including it with the Fallacies of Presumption because those hidden premise are presumed to be true.

Examples and Discussion:

The first type involves demanding a simple answer to a complex or multi-part question. Examples of that include:

1. Do you think taxes are too high - yes or no?

2. If you don't think that God created the universe, then what did?

When you encounter such a question, you should refuse to try an offer a simplistic answer because you are only likely to run into trouble. Instead, you should insist that the discussion start out more simply - for example, as with #1, it might be a good idea to answer with "that depends upon which taxes we are talking about."

The second is also called using a "loaded question," because it involves asking a question which assumes the truth of at least one extra, hidden premise which is either false or, at the very least, questionable (thus making this a form of "begging the question").

Like said, if you wish to discuss the issue, you can pm me and it wouldnt be a problem, but I will not do so here, we can speak 1 on 1 if you're so intent on knowing what I believe. Edited February 23, 2007 by An Urban Legend

[itsnotoutthere]

As i said, It's a very simple question that goes streight to the heart of the matter with a simple yes or no. Quite why you're making it more complex than it needs to be i don't know!

[An Urban Legend]

As i said, It's a very simple question that goes streight to the heart of the matter with a simple yes or no. Quite why you're making it more complex than it needs to be i don't know!

Still even after giving a brief explanation you FAIL TO UNDERSTAND, what is the fallacy of complex questioning. You claim its a simple question that goes "to the heart of the matter" when in actuality its totally nonsequitur with reguards to this topic. Wheater I say yes or no, still has nothing to do with an explosion happening in WTC7, or this thread. It's a question posed towards my opinion, which cannot be answered with a simple yes or no. UNDERSTAND THAT!! If you want to know my opinion on the matter PM ME and I'll be willing to discuss it further with you. Last response! Take it or leave it. Edited February 23, 2007 by An Urban Legend