Child Adoption By Same-Sex Couples

[fireal13]

All same sex couples should have the right to adopt children. And sexual orientation or religion should have nothing to do with it. It always confuses me why religious people feel that they should be aloud to decide what's best for society. Why don't all the ****ing Christians just go to a mountain somewhere and wait for there imaginary fairy tale god to save them? Why do they feel the need to keep ruining society for all of us sane people? Idiots

[MUM24/7]

All same sex couples should have the right to adopt children. And sexual orientation or religion should have nothing to do with it. It always confuses me why religious people feel that they should be aloud to decide what's best for society. Why don't all the ****ing Christians just go to a mountain somewhere and wait for there imaginary fairy tale god to save them? Why do they feel the need to keep ruining society for all of us sane people? Idiots

Because they're 'loud'.........Sorry but I couldn't resist !!

BTW welcome.....

[fireal13]

Because they're 'loud'.........Sorry but I couldn't resist !!

BTW welcome.....

haha nice. thanks for the welcome

[MUM24/7]

haha nice. thanks for the welcome

You're very welcome....

[Kismit]

Can we please remind people to show respect for each other when posting.

Also when you're discussing a topic which can be as hot as this one and you feel that you might be getting a little angsty toward another member, feel free to give your self a 5 minute break from the computer to compose yourself before posting a comment.

Thank-you

[girty1600]

I insist it's unnatural, and I hope science comes up with something to somehow switch homosexuals back to the normal state of sexuality.

Religions of the world have already come up with a way to achieve that via brainwashing and self-loathing. If there is any truth to the scientific study involving the "gay" gene then programs like that will only spread it faster much like the ignorant fisherman who cut the starship into pieces so it could multiply whilst he thought he was ridding himself of the problem.

Lets those folks adopt the children that need homes. Same sex couples are just as capable of raising children as anyone else. Worried about the kids getting teased? All kids get teased at some point; just look at those middle-class b******* who shot up their school and started a trend of upper-middle-class kids who were way too spoiled going on a cray baby killing spree because they didn't get enough attention.

Let's face it husbands and wives can't alway produce offspring that will even be worth a crap considering their future upbringing. God bless the people who recognize the fact they would be horrible parents and give their baby up for adoption.

There are plenty of babies and kids that need homes and the smae-sex couples who wish to have a child will do so via several different means including serogates. Rather than create a child through much expense why not give a parentless child a family and home?

Keep the human population down; have your local fertile idiot sterilized! -this message brought to you by Bob Barker

[Michelle]

I did my part, Girty...I sterilized my idiot self many years ago...

By the way...

Edited February 22, 2007 by Michelle

[RougeRat]

Hmm being gay...natural or unatural. I am a woman who never wants any children, am I unatural?

Also, I am half black and half white, does that make me unatural?

A woman at my work desperately wants to have kids but her body won't let her, is she unatural? Because she can't produce any children does that mean she is not worthy of ever having the joy of kids?

Also, just a speculation, but didn't Alfred Kinsey (Kinsey Scale) research people and find that most people fell into "bisexual territory" . Well I guess most of us ARE unatural.

[louie]

Also what about single parents whom raise children, those kids grow up normally, so whats the diffrence singe dad or dad and his partner, single mom or mom and her partner, mom an dad, as long as the child grows up in a loving enviroment thats all that matters.

Give kids a good home, there are far too many children living on the streets or in abusive homes, every child deserves the chance to be raised by loving parents regardless of the parents sexual orientation.

[Bone_Collector]

Of course no one wants their kids to get hurt, but thats life. Do you prevent your kids from ever having sex because you are afraid it will mentally scar them? Do you prevent them from ever having a boyfriend or girlfriend because chances are there will be a messy breakup? Do black people just not have children because chances are they are going to face some sort of racism? Does the only asian family in a hispanic neighborhood move somewhere else where job prospects are poor but there are plenty of "their kind" just to shelter their child? No. That would be silly. I would think that being raised by homosexual parents would actually teach a child to be more tolerant and open..and thats the kind of people we need in this world. Not people who are afraid of "the gays" or pity thier children.

But you try don't you? Won't you try to give a good life to your kid? There are enough issues that kids face already, would you go on and add one more to the list thinking "oh well, there are so many other issues already, what difference would it make if I add one more" ? No, you try.

I'd rather not have a kid than have a kid who is sure to have a very hard life. You see everything is not in our control, but we try to make it as good as possible, and that is being a responsible parent -being a parent who is in position to provide a good life to his kid.

Also, when kids are confused they ask questions. If they have good parents they can discuss it. There is no way to shelter confusion and it can only be tamed with having people around you who are open and will help you with questions. Questioning is healthy and proves that your child knows how to think. The sooner they learn how to think for themselves and learn not to be afraid of what they are, then the sooner they can get on with life instead of worrying about people judging their every move. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for and they can cope with proper support.

Sounds good to hear, doesn't work out practically. I repeat, kids cannot handle conflicting ideas at a tender age, they will have a lot of issues at home, school and with friends, if they are bought up by a same sex couple, and please don't give me that "like all the other straight parents are perfect stuff again". A straight average couple any day would be better parents than an average same sex couple.

Yes, same sex couples are not natural or normal, and that does not mean anything bad or wrong in any way. Heck, if they were normal, why can't they have children by themselves naturally? Because, it's not nature's normal course, that's why. Look, I do feel for them and I do not discriminate personally, but we can't risk getting a kid's life messed up just so that gays or lesbians can have a better life. People can choose what they wan't to be, they can live life the way they want to, but I don't agree with knowingly risking a innocent kid's life.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Bone_Collector

[glynne64]

First off, adoption is an amazing thing. It gives a child a chance to have something that they may never ever have...a family.

I would suggest couseling to prepare & deal with any sort of adoption. Some may never need the help, but it should be available. Cause eventually questions will arise & knowing ways to handle them is very important. Also if a child is being adopted into a potentially prejudiced group, it's even more necessary. Course then I believe EVERY family should have counseling, not just families adopting! Just look at the state of things in the news lately!! Seems like the monkeys are running the zoo!

I think as long as there is good & honest screening of potential parents. Follow up to be sure "the fit" of parents to children. Then why not? My best friend would have never had a loving family & became an amazing person if it weren't for adoption. He knows where he came from, but he knows who has been there & always weill be there.

Children do not ask to be brought into this world, but once they are here shouldn't they be loved?

I saw some of the posts bash religious based adoption. I'm not saying they are perfect, but in many cases a church is the only place an expectant mother can turn to, possibly cause of $$ issues or lack of available services. Also churches have routinely been the places "to care for the orphans, poor, homeless, etc." Right or wrong they have been a part of history in this area.

[SilverCougar]

However, I insist it's unnatural, and I hope science comes up with something to somehow switch homosexuals back to the normal state of sexuality.

And I hope they don't. Homosexuality has been with humans since the beginning of our species.. the only issue that is every made about it is by religions. And even though I hold my faith near and dear, I am capable of knowing when it's right and when it's not good for certain things.

And I thank the goddess my faith doesn't dalve into the sticky mire of telling people who's right for loving what person. Homosexuality is just as normal and natural as hetrosexuality. Wanting children is as normal as not wanting kids.

It's all viewed as a trigger done by nature to help control the population. Seriously, sit and think. People are living longer. We're cureing more diseases that used to kill thousands centuries ago. If *every* single female and male reproduced... this planet would be in some serious trouble. Not to mention the foster care, and orphanage systems would fall apart for having so many children suddenly fluxed into it. I mean, after all.. it is obvious that even though people are having kids, they can't or won't take care of them.

So to prevent us from thoroughly exhausting the already strained eco system... nature "flips a switch" as it were on some people... So you will have either people like me and my boy toy who don't want kids... and we'll end up with people who prefer the same sex. As well as infirtility.. however, science loved to try and correct that one...

However, since many of the homosexual couples out there who want kid, that's awsome for the orphanage and foster care system. That opens a whole new list of willing and loving homes to adopt children out to.

So not only is this nature's way of contoling the populations, but it's a bonus, because it's also a way to get unwanted children into homes that want them.

Why people consider this a bad idea.. it totaly beyond me.

[Dr Haisook]

Many of you misinterpreted my post.

I didn't mean to say that homosexuals are unnatural as a whole, but they are unnatural to the kids they bring up, at least at present. As long as there's 1% of racism/skeptcism/hatred against homosexuality, kids brought up by homosexual parents will be psychologically disturbed whatever the situation is. That's because kids are not mentally ready to accept that. They are not as versatile and open as adults are. They will not understand how both of their parents are of the same sex, while all of their friends' parents are different-sex couples. Please be aware that I'm talking from a psychological point of view.

So when will it be a normal situation for a kid to be raised by homosexual parents? This will happen when accepting homosexual marriage becomes 100% integrated into the society, which is not the case now. When that happens, a kid with homosexual parents will not be any different from kids with heterosexual parents. The other kids will not tease the former kid because they will be brought up understanding that there are different types of parent couples.

I hope I've made myself clear this time.

[louie]

Many of you misinterpreted my post.

I didn't mean to say that homosexuals are unnatural as a whole, but they are unnatural to the kids they bring up, at least at present. As long as there's 1% of racism/skeptcism/hatred against homosexuality, kids brought up by homosexual parents will be psychologically disturbed whatever the situation is. That's because kids are not mentally ready to accept that. They are not as versatile and open as adults are. They will not understand how both of their parents are of the same sex, while all of their friends' parents are different-sex couples. Please be aware that I'm talking from a psychological point of view.

So when will it be a normal situation for a kid to be raised by homosexual parents? This will happen when accepting homosexual marriage becomes 100% integrated into the society, which is not the case now. When that happens, a kid with homosexual parents will not be any different from kids with heterosexual parents. The other kids will not tease the former kid because they will be brought up understanding that there are different types of parent couples.

I hope I've made myself clear this time.

But then if your theory was to be taken on board, what about kids brought up in mixed race familys or ethnic familys there is definetly 1% of racism against them. but yet they live in society and deal with whatever arises. so its no diffrent. someone will always have a diffrent opnion on your lifestyle. so that theory is of no consequence to this discussion

[MUM24/7]

Look, we can debate this topic till we are blue in the face and put forward our arguments and theories and opinions however, we can all agree that at the present time, society as we all know it doesn't endorse anything other than a two parent family unit, with mum and dad, 2.1 kids, house, picket fence etc......

Now, it may be wrong or right or discriminating or unfair or whatever, BUT that's how it's been and how it's gonna be......I'm asking for people to be realistic and think about how a child would feel/think/react , having been raised in a same sex environment by two loving men, suddenly thrust out there in the community through child care and eventually school, and seeing that all of his/her classmates have a mummy and a daddy !!!!

Obviously that little person will have questions and feel emotions which she/he shouldn't have to deal with....Life is hard enough.....Yes, the fathers would have tried to prepare the child, yes their intentions are honourable, yes yes yes BUT reality, people REALITY sets in and how is that child not going to feel different or unaccepted by his/her peers ? Children detest anything that makes them stand out (as a mum of 4 I can swear on that), children long to belong and be part of the norm......How in hell, can their little minds begin to process this reality, : THAT HE/SHE DOESN'T HAVE A MUM AND DAD BUT TWO DADS ????

Please for a moment, set aside your adult perceptions and imagine being that child......Now come back and tell me if it's right or wrong...........

[louie]

Look, we can debate this topic till we are blue in the face and put forward our arguments and theories and opinions however, we can all agree that at the present time, society as we all know it doesn't endorse anything other than a two parent family unit, with mum and dad, 2.1 kids, house, picket fence etc......

Now, it may be wrong or right or discriminating or unfair or whatever, BUT that's how it's been and how it's gonna be......I'm asking for people to be realistic and think about how a child would feel/think/react , having been raised in a same sex environment by two loving men, suddenly thrust out there in the community through child care and eventually school, and seeing that all of his/her classmates have a mummy and a daddy !!!!

Obviously that little person will have questions and feel emotions which she/he shouldn't have to deal with....Life is hard enough.....Yes, the fathers would have tried to prepare the child, yes their intentions are honourable, yes yes yes BUT reality, people REALITY sets in and how is that child not going to feel different or unaccepted by his/her peers ? Children detest anything that makes them stand out (as a mum of 4 I can swear on that), children long to belong and be part of the norm......How in hell, can their little minds begin to process this reality, : THAT HE/SHE DOESN'T HAVE A MUM AND DAD BUT TWO DADS ????

Please for a moment, set aside your adult perceptions and imagine being that child......Now come back and tell me if it's right or wrong...........

I know exactly what you are saying, and i agree , but for example what about a child being brought up in a single parent family do they feel unexcepted by his/her peers.

I just feel its acceptable for same sex couples to raise a child if they so wish,,

All familys and indivudals have thier problems and personal issues thats just part of growing up, like you cant always blame a criminals mom an dad because he is a criminal.

and of course the parents involved would have to really try prepare the child for school and the community.

in an ideal world this wouldent be the case.

[MUM24/7]

I know exactly what you are saying, and i agree , but for example what about a child being brought up in a single parent family do they feel unexcepted by his/her peers.

I just feel its acceptable for same sex couples to raise a child if they so wish,,

All familys and indivudals have thier problems and personal issues thats just part of growing up, like you cant always blame a criminals mom an dad because he is a criminal.

and of course the parents involved would have to really try prepare the child for school and the community.

in an ideal world this wouldent be the case.

Yes, there are plenty of single parent families, very common and prevalent in today's world. However, there's still a mum and there once was a dad or there was always mum and no dad and vice versa, we all know the combinations.....Plenty of fathers end up raising the child because THE MUM wont or can't but you see my point, there's always been a mum !!!

Where's the mum if two gay men adopt a child ? I cannot express it any easier than that !!!!!

[The_Atheist_Mind]

You know you do have a point .... and it is unfair ..... but I feel for the children ... to me it doesnt matter who gets the child as long as that child gets a good home! I dont know .... *clouded thoughts*

~*~

but theres a danger hidden beneath it all, they may have bad intentions for when the child gets older, all the adults here will know what i mean

[louie]

but theres a danger hidden beneath it all, they may have bad intentions for when the child gets older, all the adults here will know what i mean

lol.lol so what they are gonna pick a child and feed, house put it through school. only to wait 10 or 15 years to do something bad to the child.... please no.no,no,

[Bill Hill]

Kids have a remarkable talent for adaptation. All the science I've seen indicates that two loving committed parents are better than one, and one is better than none. Kids from Mom1 and Mom2 tend to adjust just as well as kids from Mom and Dad, on average.

What science reports have you seen? I'd be most interested in reading them..have you got a link?

[Bill Hill]

So to prevent us from thoroughly exhausting the already strained eco system... nature "flips a switch" as it were on some people... So you will have either people like me and my boy toy who don't want kids... and we'll end up with people who prefer the same sex. As well as infirtility.. however, science loved to try and correct that one...

lol So Homosexuality is like a natural 'gaian' population control? Interesting.. but if this is the case then lesbians wouldn't want to produce children naturally.. er I mean..you know, using a male and female.

I don't know why nature even bothers with male and female anymore? What's the point? Isn't nature so Homophobic these days?

[Talon]

Here's a question for you, Talon ? Do you know the topic of this thread ? Does it say, "You better agree with Talon's way or it's the highway ?"

Well then, I was asked for my opinion and I gave it....I don't know where you're from but where I'm from , there's still such things as right to your opinion, difference of opinion and finally, respect for someone's opinion... Obviously things that you never learnt about while growing up (or should I say, while still growing up) !!

I’m from Scotland, if you’d read ‘location’ you could have found that out.

MUM24/7 what you seem not to realise is this is a debate forum - if you post your opinions, particularly offensive ones such as yours, people will call you on it. If you aren’t mature enough to accept that people will challenge your opinion, then you shouldn’t post on a debates post.

FYI, I had a couple of people respond to my post prior to you and even though they had a difference of opinion, they remained polite and civil and conveyed their opinions without 'bashing me over the head', unlike yourself......

This indicated to me that you have been ignored all your life (for obvious reasons) and that you cannot carry on a civil conversation without displaying emotions of anger and frustration and bitterness.....Here's a newsflash for you, there are plenty of good therapists out there ....GO SEE ONE !!!!

I don’t see where I wasn’t civil. You stated a sexist comment and I called you on it. It’s no more uncivil to call you a bigot because you made a bigoted comment, then it would to call me an authoritarian because I support the death penalty and support other authoritarian measures. You can’t complain I’m being uncivil because I challenge an offensive attack on 3 billion people including myself.

I fail to see anywhere where I '[bash you] over the head', in fact I don’t insult you once, only ask you to ‘get rid of your own prejudgments’ and point out a scenario to try and show you how outrageous that prejudice is; and point out the truth, that your views on males are primate and bigoted… which they were, so that’s not an insult it’s a fact. If someone said ‘blacks should all die’ and I pointed out he was a racist bigot, it wouldn’t be an insult it would a fact. Equally I am sure if someone on this forum said an equally offensive view point to your comment on men, like ‘woman should stay at home and not be allowed to vote’ you and many other females would be upset and likely challenge this person and point out their view is sexist… so its hardly uncivil that I point out your beliefs are sexist because you make a sexist comment.

Equally my post is in the written word not spoken. So you don’t know what tone I had – but I’ll tell you; I while writing it was speaking in a very bored tone of someone who’s had to put up with constant male-bashers on this forum and an added touch of disbelief such people still exist after all the moves for equality during the last century. If you read that post with ‘anger and frustration and bitterness’ then that’s all in your head and says a lot about you, because words don’t carry emotion - that’s why we have smiles - people read what emotion they themselves feel into words. So I wasn’t ‘displaying emotions of anger and frustration and bitterness’ when I wrote that, it was you displaying them when you choose to apply those emotions to the text.

Hell I’m so calm I don’t even use any explanation marks except the one part when I take a stab at guessed what the feminist mind thinks and make the feminist use one use one in a quote.

You, however, use three in a row while demanding I go to a shrink…beleive me MUM I’m not the one displaying deep levels of hostility here.

society as we all know it doesn't endorse anything other than a two parent family unit, with mum and dad

That may be the traditional family unit, but given the number of single parent families in the western world and our devoice rate, you’ll find it hasn’t been that way in reality for some time.

Yes, there are plenty of single parent families, very common and prevalent in today's world. However, there's still a mum and there once was a dad or there was always mum and no dad and vice versa, we all know the combinations.....Plenty of fathers end up raising the child because THE MUM wont or can't but you see my point, there's always been a mum !!!

You’ll find there are plenty of single parent families were there is only a dad because the mother has run off, died, in jail etc, I fail to see your logic that in a single mother family there is a mom and ‘once was a dad’, but in a single father family “there's always been a mum”. Why wasn’t the case that in the single mother families “there's always been a dad” too? Just because you hate male parents does not take away from the fact that men can be just as good parents as woman, and there are just as many bad female parents (who abandon, abuse and kill their children) as male ones.

I didn't mean to say that homosexuals are unnatural as a whole, but they are unnatural to the kids they bring up, at least at present. As long as there's 1% of racism/skeptcism/hatred against homosexuality, kids brought up by homosexual parents will be psychologically disturbed whatever the situation is. That's because kids are not mentally ready to accept that. They are not as versatile and open as adults are. They will not understand how both of their parents are of the same sex, while all of their friends' parents are different-sex couples. Please be aware that I'm talking from a psychological point of view.

By that argument I suppose you oppose mixed race adoption in case because the child will be ‘psychologically disturbed’ because there is more than 1% racism in the world? And they wouldn’t understand how their parents are from different races from either each other or the child? Also you have any evidence that all kids brought up by homosexual parents are ‘psychologically disturbed’? (and I don’t mean one or two, I mean the whole lot of them like you state).

It's all viewed as a trigger done by nature to help control the population. Seriously, sit and think. People are living longer. We're cureing more diseases that used to kill thousands centuries ago. If *every* single female and male reproduced... this planet would be in some serious trouble. Not to mention the foster care, and orphanage systems would fall apart for having so many children suddenly fluxed into it. I mean, after all.. it is obvious that even though people are having kids, they can't or won't take care of them.

SilverCougar you know I like you and have stood by your side in many a topic in defence of the natural world, but I don’t agree with you on this one. For nature to know there are two many humans and make some gay in an attempt to lower the population then nature would actively have to be aware of human population size, foster care and adoption statistics and be able make the switch in a planned attempt to reverse this etc which would imply sentience on natures part. While you’re belief in a god can justify this, since I don’t believe in gods I can’t believe nature is a sentient being capable of making such changes. It seems to me that every time an egg and sperm fuse to start the initial production of a baby they are completely ignorant of the world outside and exploding human population, and therefore couldn’t make a conscious decision to make a child gay. I feel its far more likely homosexuality is caused by random genetic factors which have nothing to do with population size; especially when we consider endangered species, which nature would not want to decrease in numbers, also have been noted to have homosexual members.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Talon

[Dr Haisook]

The problem is that - as MUM24/7 said too - you do not take the matter from a kid's point of view. It's like the kid will readily understand the fact that his/her parents are of the same sex. You easily equalize a kid's mind to an adult one (!). Please do not compare this with the case of mixed race parents. Such cases are now highly integrated into the society, and even if a kid gets teased that his/her mother is chinese, for instance, it won't be as devastating if he/she was teased about having two dads or two moms.

Being liberal and open-minded is a good thing, but psychological disturbances have to be put in consideration as well.

Homosexual partners will not be offended by teasing from others because they're adults and know well what their case is, but kids - at least at present - do not and will not.

We'd rather keep orphans in specialized centers than make them available for adoption by same-sex couples. Not being against the will of such couples, but protecting children from severe psychological damage that would - very likely - ruin their lives in the future.

Sorry guys, but we're not robots. We're humans, and the healthy psychological part of us is highly important for being sane.

[Talon]

As for seeing it through the eyes of the kid; there was someone here who said he had a friend who was raised by gays and was fine, and I’ve seen other cases on tv of children raised by gay people being fine, not as you say turning in schizophrenics.

While I cannot speak for every adult, I can assure you, bigotry can hurt adults. If black adults weren’t upset by racism during the 1960s, I doubt they would have invested so much time and effort into fighting it.

As for kids being bullied for having gay parents, it’s because of attitudes like that your support - i.e. that gay couples having children is wrong – that that prejudice exists and will continue to exist. 20 years ago a kid with parents from a different race would have been looked down by adults they same way as you say you would look down at a gay family that have kids, but nowadays it would be far less common. Equally if today we allow gays to adopt in 20 years your views on gay adoption will likely viewed with the same disgust as we nowadays look back on the pre-1960s attitudes to mixed race kids.

Change has to start somewhere.

And again, can you please provide evidence that being raised by gays makes you go insane before quoting it as fact?

Edited February 22, 2007 by Talon

[Atheist God]

WHAT? I can't believe people are saying yes here. Homosexuality is not only through nature, it is also through nurture. Childhood is a very imortant part of life, it is basically the phase in life where basic ideas form, character is determined and it has a direct effect on what you will be when you grow up into an adult. I am not against same sex marraiges, I just don't like to see kids with messed up ideas on life and relationships.

Kids know at a very early age whether or not they are gay. While kids look up to parents how come kids that grow up in straight households end up being gay? Your arguement is highly flawed and can be turned around on you. Fact is EVERYONE as i said before is entitled to the same rights including child adoption irregardless of culture, race or lifestyle.

Why is is that nuclear families have gay kids? Why is is that most kids who have grown up do not turn out to be gay?

Being liberal and open-minded is a good thing, but psychological disturbances have to be put in consideration as well.

Homosexual partners will not be offended by teasing from others because they're adults and know well what their case is, but kids - at least at present - do not and will not.

My freind never grew up with major psychological trauma from being teased. Fact is all kids get teased in school for various reasons and thus this arguement is null and void. Likewise there is no evidence to support this theory either. Infact all the evidence thus far shows that kids in gay families live no different then those of the nuclear standard family.