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coughymachine

Child Adoption By Same-Sex Couples

Child Adoption By Same-Sex Couples  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Should same-sex couples be allowed to adopt?

    • Yes, but only lesbian same-sex couples should be allowed to adopt
      1
    • Yes, but only gay same-sex couples should be allowed to adopt
      0
    • Both lesbian and gay same-sex couples should be allowed to adopt
      34
    • Neither lesbian nor gay same-sex couples should be allowed to adopt
      13
  2. 2. Should religiously-oriented adoption agencies be allowed to discriminate against same-sex couples because the law requires them to act against their beliefs?

    • Yes
      16
    • No
      32


95 posts in this topic

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Bone_Collector

Rougerat, the thing is that you can answer these questions, so can I. Because we can understand the differences,

it's easy, not for the kids. Everything's not so open and close when it comes to a child's thinking, they will try to copy people around them and set them as standards.

What if your kid is gay? They need someone to talk to because they are not going to magically become un-gay.

I will personally love people for what they are rather than base my opinions depending on their sexuality. If my kid is gay, I will love him the same as I would've done if he was straight. Heck, I have friends who are gay. I just don't prefer(not that I have a choice) my kid to be gay, because I don't want him to lead a troubled life.

Kids like that can have it tough growing up, but no one in their right mind is going to say that it's wrong.

Let alone what may be right or wrong, you do agree that they would have it tough growing up and living in this society, right? Homosexual couples can end up bringing up situations that can cause a kid's thinking to be affected. You can hardly stop them from copying their parents and ending up gay. I know several cases in which young children in the company of gays have ended up gay. Not that every kid will end up that way, but the chances are that their lives will be a bit more complicated and that is exactly what I am talking about. I don't have a problem with Gays or Lesbians ans I have no problem with same sex marraiges. I just don't want kids to have troubled lives just so that homosexuals can have a family. Understand?

Edited by Bone_Collector

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RougeRat
Rougerat, the thing is that you can answer these questions, so can I. Because we can understand the differences,

it's easy, not for the kids. Everything's not so open and close when it comes to a child's thinking, they will try to copy people around them and set them as standards.

I will personally love people for what they are rather than base my opinions depending on their sexuality. If my kid is gay, I will love him the same as I would've done if he was straight. Heck, I have friends who are gay.

Let alone what may be right or wrong, you do agree that they would have it tough growing up and living in this society, right? Homosexual couples can end up bringing up situations that can cause a kid's thinking to be affected you can hardly stop them from copying their parents and ending up gay. Not that every kid will end up that way, but the chances are that their lives will be a bit more complicated and that is exactly what I am talking about. I don't have a problem with Gays or Lesbians. I just don't want kids to have troubled lives. Understand?

I am half black and half white, so yes I know first hand what it is like to be discriminated against and to have more questions than anything. I learned that you have to be who you are and if people discriminate against you, when who cares. Forget them and find people who will love you for who you are.

We can't shelter children and have them grow up with rainbows and unicorns. Thats not how life is at all. As for copying gay habits, well wouldn't that be just as bad as a gay child trying to copy straight habits? Both would lead to something confusing and probably some poor choices (trying to be gay or straight). Eventually, most grow out of any phases and find their true selves.

Let children be confused and question everything. They have to learn that yes they grew up differently, but they should feel proud about their family and who they are, not ashamed. There are so many gay pride and "kids of gay parents" groups out there that they shouldn't feel too alone. Also, the fact that there are groups like that show that a lot of them are proud of their parents and are not "messed up"

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louie
Rougerat, the thing is that you can answer these questions, so can I. Because we can understand the differences,

it's easy, not for the kids. Everything's not so open and close when it comes to a child's thinking, they will try to copy people around them and set them as standards.

I will personally love people for what they are rather than base my opinions depending on their sexuality. If my kid is gay, I will love him the same as I would've done if he was straight. Heck, I have friends who are gay. I just don't prefer(not that I have a choice) my kid to be gay, because I don't want him to lead a troubled life.

Let alone what may be right or wrong, you do agree that they would have it tough growing up and living in this society, right? Homosexual couples can end up bringing up situations that can cause a kid's thinking to be affected. You can hardly stop them from copying their parents and ending up gay. I know several cases in which young children in the company of gays have ended up gay. Not that every kid will end up that way, but the chances are that their lives will be a bit more complicated and that is exactly what I am talking about. I don't have a problem with Gays or Lesbians ans I have no problem with same sex marraiges. I just don't want kids to have troubled lives just so that homosexuals can have a family. Understand?

You say him, what if your daughter is gay,

why is it when men discuss homosexuality they only think in terms of men, thats where the problem is deep seeded.a male way of thinking.

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RougeRat

Touching on the subject of kids living troubled lives, it seems to be that family is the only thing many can fall back on, and what happens when parents don't accept their childs sexuality? The situation where straight parents cut the child off from the family because it's "wrong".

There are so many scenerios concering sexuality with gay or straight parents. I just can't see straight parents being any more worthy of raising a child than gay parents. Good and bad situations exist for both.

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Bone_Collector

I understand how difficult it would be if people discriminate against you. People have to think they're right to move ahead in life, it's called coping mechanism. Forget right or wrong for a moment, we just want better lives. Most parents

wouldn't want thier kids to be homosexual because they wouldn't want their kids to be discriminated against.

We can't shelter kids all their lives but we shelter them as much as possible until they are good enough to face the world. The chances are great that a child's psychology can be affected if brought up by same sex couples. Like I said,

it might be a good thing for the couple but I wouldn't want a child to have a rough life just so that a homosexual couple can have a family.

Let children be confused and question everything.
^I cannot possibly tell you how wrong that is on so many counts. Ask any child psychologist and question me if they tell you otherwise.

You say him, what if your daughter is gay,

why is it when men discuss homosexuality they only think in terms of men, thats where the problem is deep seeded.a male way of thinking.

Oh come on, quit nitpicking. I have no intention to make this out like an only-male thing, I just used an example.

Edited by Bone_Collector

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RougeRat
I understand how difficult it would be if people discriminate against you. People have to think they're right to move ahead in life, it's called coping mechanism. Forget right or wrong for a moment, we just want better lives. Most parents

wouldn't want thier kids to be homosexual because they wouldn't want their kids to be discriminated against.

We can't shelter kids all their lives but we shelter them as much as possible until they are good enough to face the world. The chances are great that a child's psychology can be affected if brought up by same sex couples. Like I said,

it might be a good thing for the couple but I wouldn't want a child to have a rough life just so that a homosexual couple can have a family.

^I cannot possibly tell you how wrong that is on so many counts. Ask any child psychologist and question me if they tell you otherwise.

Of course no one wants their kids to get hurt, but thats life. Do you prevent your kids from ever having sex because you are afraid it will mentally scar them? Do you prevent them from ever having a boyfriend or girlfriend because chances are there will be a messy breakup? Do black people just not have children because chances are they are going to face some sort of racism? Does the only asian family in a hispanic neighborhood move somewhere else where job prospects are poor but there are plenty of "their kind" just to shelter their child? No. That would be silly. I would think that being raised by homosexual parents would actually teach a child to be more tolerant and open..and thats the kind of people we need in this world. Not people who are afraid of "the gays" or pity thier children.

Also, when kids are confused they ask questions. If they have good parents they can discuss it. There is no way to shelter confusion and it can only be tamed with having people around you who are open and will help you with questions. Questioning is healthy and proves that your child knows how to think. The sooner they learn how to think for themselves and learn not to be afraid of what they are, then the sooner they can get on with life instead of worrying about people judging their every move. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for and they can cope with proper support.

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Snarky Pants

I think gay couples should be able to adopt. People should be able to start a family, including homosexuals.

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RougeRat
I think gay couples should be able to adopt. People should be able to start a family, including homosexuals.

All children also deserve to have a family. Stopping gay people from adopting cuts out a significant number of potential families.

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MUM24/7

OK...Here it goes.....My take on all this might actually come across as being sexist ....I don't have any probs with a lesbian couple adopting a child but I am a bit iffy regarding gay men. The reason is simple : all children need a mother, it's natural, obviously because women are the child bearers !!

If a lesbian wants to have a child within a relationship, nothing stops her from impregnating herself with sperm, which she can obtain through a sperm bank or male friend etc and then let nature take it's course......That's what women are designed for but for a gay couple to want to have children it doesn't feel right in my opinion...

When that child grows up, he/she will want to know where their mum is.......For a lesbian the need is biological, she also feels her clock ticking away but I don't see how a man in a relationship with another man feels that need......

Unfortunately, we all live in a society that dictates two parents , mum and dad, and to deprive a child of a mum is inconceivable to me !!!! :no:

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louie
OK...Here it goes.....My take on all this might actually come across as being sexist ....I don't have any probs with a lesbian couple adopting a child but I am a bit iffy regarding gay men. The reason is simple : all children need a mother, it's natural, obviously because women are the child bearers !!

If a lesbian wants to have a child within a relationship, nothing stops her from impregnating herself with sperm, which she can obtain through a sperm bank or male friend etc and then let nature take it's course......That's what women are designed for but for a gay couple to want to have children it doesn't feel right in my opinion...

When that child grows up, he/she will want to know where their mum is.......For a lesbian the need is biological, she also feels her clock ticking away but I don't see how a man in a relationship with another man feels that need......

Unfortunately, we all live in a society that dictates two parents , mum and dad, and to deprive a child of a mum is inconceivable to me !!!! :no:

Oh i dont know, i dont think men dont feel the biological need to have children, thier clock can be ticking as well. majority of men have kids a small majority dont therefore men feel the need to have kids also. its a 2 way thing both sexes are programmed to want kids.

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RougeRat
OK...Here it goes.....My take on all this might actually come across as being sexist ....I don't have any probs with a lesbian couple adopting a child but I am a bit iffy regarding gay men. The reason is simple : all children need a mother, it's natural, obviously because women are the child bearers !!

If a lesbian wants to have a child within a relationship, nothing stops her from impregnating herself with sperm, which she can obtain through a sperm bank or male friend etc and then let nature take it's course......That's what women are designed for but for a gay couple to want to have children it doesn't feel right in my opinion...

When that child grows up, he/she will want to know where their mum is.......For a lesbian the need is biological, she also feels her clock ticking away but I don't see how a man in a relationship with another man feels that need......

Unfortunately, we all live in a society that dictates two parents , mum and dad, and to deprive a child of a mum is inconceivable to me !!!! :no:

There are a lot of couples where it's the man who wants the child, not neccesarily the woman. A lot of women (myself included) don't feel the need to mother anything and never want children so it's not always the woman wanting kids. Also, there are quite a few stay at home fathers now adays. Anyhow, thats a bit odd to say considering a lot of men want big families. Wanting kids is not and never has been a women only thing. A lot of people want to know there fathers as well..why wouldn't they? I see fathers with their kids all the time and there are dads who have custody of thier kids and are raising them. Heck, my boyfriend and his younger sister live with their father and things seem fine here.

Also, I can't understand why someone would only want to know who their mother is and not their father O_o? Fathers are important too :-/

Well I guess you're just a mama's girl :P

Edited by RougeRat

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Lord Umbarger
Stopping gay people from adopting cuts out a significant number of potential families.
As I understand it, there are far more perspective parents than adoptable children, in the U.S. anyways. And that's even if gays weren't part of the equation.

Somebody said: "Gays have a right to start a family". Although I'm not disagreeing with that, I wonder. If nature meant for it to be that way, why can't they have children? Not that it really matters one way or the other, just wondering what the overall take is on that.

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Xavie
As I understand it, there are far more perspective parents than adoptable children, in the U.S. anyways. And that's even if gays weren't part of the equation.

Somebody said: "Gays have a right to start a family". Although I'm not disagreeing with that, I wonder. If nature meant for it to be that way, why can't they have children? Not that it really matters one way or the other, just wondering what the overall take is on that.

Actually as far as I know that statement is only true about babies up to 2 years old, or maybe 3 years … don’t remember the actually age “cut-off” for when children become “less” desirable to be adopted. A lady two houses away from me adopted 3 children (not at once, but over almost ten year timeframe), anyways … she told me many times how sad it is for many children wanting/needing home but they are considered “too old” by many potential parents. Btw, all her adopted children were school age when she adopted them and she is also foster mother to many more children so I think she knows about how it all works. She's one incredible lady.

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Talon
You say him, what if your daughter is gay,

why is it when men discuss homosexuality they only think in terms of men, thats where the problem is deep seeded.a male way of thinking.

Excuse me, where is your evidence for this claim? You think you can judge what 3 billion people think based on what one person here says? You're just as bigoted as the people you are referring too. I for your information am male, I assure you I am well aware of the existence of lesbians thank you. Before lecturing anyone else about open-mindedness you should go learn to get rid of your own prejudgments.

OK...Here it goes.....My take on all this might actually come across as being sexist ....I don't have any probs with a lesbian couple adopting a child but I am a bit iffy regarding gay men. The reason is simple : all children need a mother, it's natural, obviously because women are the child bearers !!

Well you don't just come across as a sexist, you are a sexist if that’s what you actually think. Banning people from having children, or claiming someone is a better parent because of their gender is out-right bigotry, and your no better than the Nazis or the KKK or any of the other fascists out there that persecute people, they just do it on race, you do it on gender. Given that there are plenty of mothers out there that beat, abuse, abandon, and kill their children, its quite clear that woman are not the best parents based on gender alone. A good parent - despite what your primate belief system dictates - is decided by how they raise their children, not whether their able to carry a child to term. I assume you think all the single fathers out there should have their children taken from them because, god forbid, 'a child can't be raised by a man'!

Here's a scenario for you, men are stronger than woman and when we were cave people were always the leaders because of that strength, I would assume then you would agree with chauvinists who say men should be in charge of the world and woman should be second class citizens as it was back in the caves it was 'natural'. By your logic you will support that idea, and if you don't your not only a fascist sexist, your also a hypocrite.

Women are always saying they shouldn't be persecuted based on gender, well newsflash, neither should men.

As for the mentions here about gay people passing on 'gayness' to children; given most gay people as raised by straight parents, why I ask, did their parents not pass on their 'straightness'. Biologist have known since the 1970s that sexuality is as much genetic as sex and race, will all the fascists here get over it.

Also as for the children getting confused; what about kids in mixed race families, are you against them because that might cause some confusion as well? What about adopting a kid of a different race, would that harm a kids mind if he's black and his parents are white? Oh and heaven forbid the parents are born in a different country from the child,

Edited by Talon

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louie
Excuse me, where is your evidence for this claim? You think you can judge what 3 billion people think based on what one person here says? You're just as bigoted as the people you are referring too. I for your information am male, I assure you I am well aware of the existence of lesbians thank you. Before lecturing anyone else about open-mindedness you should go learn to get rid of your own prejudgments.

As for the mentions here about gay people passing on 'gayness' to children; given most gay people as raised by straight parents, why I ask, did their parents not pass on their 'straightness'. Biologist have known since the 1970s that sexuality is as much genetic as sex and race, will all the fascists here get over it.

Also as for the children getting confused; what about kids in mixed race families, are you against them because that might cause some confusion as well? What about adopting a kid of a different race, would that harm a kids mind if he's black and his parents are white? Oh and heaven forbid the parents are born in a different country from the child,

So are you trying to tell me that you think men dont have a problem with homosexuality, i think you will find women are the tolerent ones concerning gay issues, men demonize it and its the main reason gay people are a minoroty in our society. for some reason men fear the gay male lifestyle,( although a large percentage have had a homosexual experence at one time or another) and many married men have gay affairs/flings/one nite stands, whatever.

and yet its men who give the nae on many gay issues.

so dont tell me men are the tolerent ones.

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Michelle
:tsu: Are you running for office again anytime soon, Talon? :lol:

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Talon
So are you trying to tell me that you think men dont have a problem with homosexuality, i think you will find women are the tolerent ones concerning gay issues, men demonize it and its the main reason gay people are a minoroty in our society. for some reason men fear the gay male lifestyle,( although a large percentage have had a homosexual experence at one time or another) and many married men have gay affairs/flings/one nite stands, whatever.

and yet its men who give the nae on many gay issues.

so dont tell me men are the tolerent ones.

You louie are a bigot. You are sitting there and making outrageous claims about 3 billion people, about 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of whom you will have never have met, spoken to or even aware of their existence.

Since you’re claiming all men hate gays, and you are male, this means you yourself are admitting to hating gays - well guess what, not all men are like you! Believe it or not there is the wondrous thing called 'individuality' which means no two people are alike. You say 'men' as if somehow everyone with a penis has a membership card to the 'I hate gays club', well I have to tell you I didn't get my membership card, and if I did I would tear it up and sent it back to you with rather nasty note.

I would like to see evidence for your claim most men have been in gay relationships, because I must admit I haven't, but I don't see how that makes me anti-gay, furthermore, if most men where gay or bi as you claim, I think you'd find your argument about them hating gays goes out the window.

So believe it or not louie just because you hate gays does not mean everyone else who happens to share your gender does. I can personally vouch that I had a bisexual friend in school, a gay friend at work, and friend at University who never came out, but we all knew he had a boyfriend from his sister; and if in case you hadn’t noticed I, despite being a straight male, am here in a gay rights thread, standing up for the rights of gays - and so are half a dozen other males. Low and behold are you so narrow-minded you can't work out if your wrong about 7 people here, you might be wrong about a vast majority of those 3 billion people who've judged without even asking them their opinion.

I would also like to point out that I've seen plenty of woman bash gays on this forum let alone real-life despite your prejudice view that woman are more tolerant than men - for your info tolerance is due with personality, not gender.

Oh btw, gay people are minority group because they make up about 12% of the population; 12% out of 100% is a minority; they could be the ruling elites and worshipped like gods, and they'd still be a minority. Minority - despite your ignorance of its meaning - is determined by the percentage you make of a population, not an indication of persecution. Billionaires are the most powerful people in the world louie, but guess what they are a minority too.

Edited by Talon

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louie
You louie are a bigot. You are sitting there and making outrageous claims about 3 billion people, about 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of whom you will have never have met, spoken to or even aware of their existence.

Since you’re claiming all men hate gays, and you are male, this means you yourself are admitting to hating gays - well guess what, not all men are like you! Believe it or not there is the wondrous thing called 'individuality' which means no two people are alike. You say 'men' as if somehow everyone with a penis has a membership card to the 'I hate gays club', well I have to tell you I didn't get my membership card, and if I did I would tear it up and sent it back to you with rather nasty note.

I would like to see evidence for your claim most men have been in gay relationships, because I must admit I haven't, but I don't see how that makes me anti-gay, furthermore, if most men where gay or bi as you claim, I think you'd find your argument about them hating gays goes out the window.

So believe it or not louie just because you hate gays does not mean everyone else who happens to share your gender does. I can personally vouch that I had a bisexual friend in school, a gay friend at work, and friend at University who never came out, but we all knew he had a boyfriend from his sister; and if in case you hadn’t noticed I, despite being a straight male, am here in a gay rights thread, standing up for the rights of gays - and so are half a dozen other males. Low and behold are you so narrow-minded you can't work out if your wrong about 7 people here, you might be wrong about a vast majority of those 3 billion people who've judged without even asking them their opinion.

I would also like to point out that I've seen plenty of woman bash gays on this forum let alone real-life despite your prejudice view that woman are more tolerant than men - for your info tolerance is due with personality, not gender.

Oh btw, gay people are minority group because they make up about 12% of the population; 12% out of 100% is a minority; they could be the ruling elites and worshipped like gods, and they'd still be a minority. Minority - despite your ignorance of its meaning - is determined by the percentage you make of a population, not an indication of persecution. Billionaires are the most powerful people in the world louie, but guess what they are a minority too.

you sir have obvously not read this thread,

you think i am a homophobe.

i grew up in the gay community , i have family members who are gay, i work in the entertainment buisness where most of my collegues are gay, im for gay marrage and gay adoption.

so you tell me if men are so tolerent to gay adoption and gay marraige why dosent it exist.

if you created a poll on homosexuality and every person who voted had to name thier sex i think you will find the majority who vote in favour will be women.

i never once stated that ALL men where homophic but unfortunatly most are, same as there are homophic women.

so in future read my posts before you get things **** before backwards.

and i know the male mind cos first i am one and i ve seen many times what men are capable of towards gay couples in public.

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Talon
you sir have obvously not read this thread,

you think i am a homophobe.

i grew up in the gay community , i have family members who are gay, i work in the entertainment buisness where most of my collegues are gay, im for gay marrage and gay adoption.

Of course I think you’re a homophobe, you admit to it, you keep on saying all men hate gays (does that btw include gay men?). Are you saying you are not a man? Are you saying all men except for you?

so you tell me if men are so tolerent to gay adoption and gay marraige why dosent it exist.

You keep on making the big one mistake that betrays your bigotry. You keep on saying ‘men’ as if the 3 billion of us all share a single mind, conform to a particular set of beliefs or are even a single entity. As I’ve told you, men are individuals, they think and act differently.

Louie most people in the US are against the Iraq war, yet they're still there; most British people hate Tony Blair, but he’s still in charge of the country; and most video-game fans want a remake of Final Fantasy 7 on PS3, but as of yet it does not exist. Do you know why these are the case? Because the people in power deem it to be so. George Bush is in charge of the country, so the US in Iraq; the Labour party holds the most UK seats, so Tony Blair is still there; and the guy in charge of Square Soft never gives the game the go-ahead so it never gets made.

And what influence does the average person on the street have to change this? – for most part squat.

Louie gay adoption and gay marriage is banned in your country because your leaders are primitives, and the people they listen to are primitives. This has nothing to do with ‘men’, as the average man has no influence whatsoever; if they did going by this thread gays would be treated as equals… Or if we went with your views men would probably be being transported to gas cambers right now to be punished for what a few men did.

If you want Louie blame the fascists, blame the church which claims homosexuality is a sin, I don’t care. Just drop the bigoted attitude that 3 billion people you don’t know are conspiring against gays.

I’d also like to point out Finland is not the centre of the world. Many countries DO have gay marriage and adoption, so if Finland doesn’t then instead of blaming me and men like me in foreign countries which do have gay marriage, you should look closer to home.

if you created a poll on homosexuality and every person who voted had to name thier sex i think you will find the majority who vote in favour will be women.
Well you’ll find most European countries actually do carry out attitude studies every five years, so go get them, check the results, and the come back to me. Until you have evidence you’re just making accusations about people based on gender. Also even assuming most homophobes were male, I fail to see how that makes it the fault of all ‘men’.

i never once stated that ALL men where homophic but unfortunatly most are, same as there are homophic women.

so in future read my posts before you get things **** before backwards.

I did read your post. That’s where I saw you frequently saying ‘men’ in general statement. Nowhere did you say ‘a number of men’, or even this new statement of ‘most men’. Again can I see this evidence ‘most men’ are homophobic. From my own experience, most men I know are indifferent to gays, they don’t give them much thought but don’t hate them. If you have a different experience maybe Scotland’s just a more tolerant society than Finland, or maybe you just hang around some real gits. Either way, just because the men you know includes a lot of bigots, does not reflect on everyone else of that gender in your country, or even more-so the world.

and i know the male mind cos first i am one and i ve seen many times what men are capable of towards gay couples in public.

Oh here we go again, :rolleyes: Louie men are not all the same. You might know what you’re capable of doing towards gays and use that to assume all men are capable of doing the same things towards gays, but not all men share your mind. I don’t really want to know what your mind thinks about gays to make you come out with such terrifying suggestions about the male population, and I don’t want to know what the people you associate with do to them in public either. However, what you and your friends think and do to gays is not reflective of the 3 billion males you don’t know, think differently from you, come from totally different cultures, countries, economic and social backgrounds.

I suggest stop listening to what your mind is telling you to do to gays, and get better friends.

Edited by Talon

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Dr Morbius

The first think I have to say here is that just because "most people" believe something, that doesn't make it right.

Next: we're living in a society which by nature is constantly changing. Our great-grandparents probably married who they were told to marry; arranged marriages used to be the norm. Then it came to be tolerated that people could marry whomever they chose, provided they came from a "good family" or worshiped at the same church (synagogue, mosque, etc). Then it came to be tolerated that people could marry but only the same race. Now the line is drawn, rather predictably by "conservatives" who always want to return to yesteryear, to permit one to marry anyone provided it is of the opposite gender. One by one, the barriers - first, who makes the choice; second, class and religion; third, race - preventing people in love to marry have been torn down. This barrier, too, shall fall.

The reason is that these have all been artificial barriers in the first place. There's no logical reason to prevent people in love from making a commitment to one another for life. That commitment is an enormous step in life, one which changed me and I daresay changes anyone (or else the marriage generally doesn't work). I believe marriage is a good thing, and unless the spouse to be is closely related (let's keep that barrier in place for there are logical reasons for it), marriage can and should benefit both partners, gay or straight. I believe the government should encourage monogamy.

This is my view on gay marriage. Whether gay couples should adopt is a slightly different question, which leads me to my next point:

All people should be equal under the law. This is in my view a fundamental platform of freedom, a truth which I hold self-evident. Unless significant evidence can be shown - and I happen to know it cannot - that gay couple necessarily raise gay kids, no one can deny the right to adoption by same-sex couples.

Last: I believe, and I hope someone can help disengage my tongue from my cheek, that the best way to get kids is the old-fashioned way. B)

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louie
Of course I think you’re a homophobe, you admit to it, you keep on saying all men hate gays (does that btw include gay men?). Are you saying you are not a man? Are you saying all men except for you?

You keep on making the big one mistake that betrays your bigotry. You keep on saying ‘men’ as if the 3 billion of us all share a single mind, conform to a particular set of beliefs or are even a single entity. As I’ve told you, men are individuals, they think and act differently.

Louie most people in the US are against the Iraq war, yet they're still there; most British people hate Tony Blair, but he’s still in charge of the country; and most video-game fans want a remake of Final Fantasy 7 on PS3, but as of yet it does not exist. Do you know why these are the case? Because the people in power deem it to be so. George Bush is in charge of the country, so the US in Iraq; the Labour party holds the most UK seats, so Tony Blair is still there; and the guy in charge of Square Soft never gives the game the go-ahead so it never gets made.

And what influence does the average person on the street have to change this? – for most part squat.

Louie gay adoption and gay marriage is banned in your country because your leaders are primitives, and the people they listen to are primitives. This has nothing to do with ‘men’, as the average man has no influence whatsoever; if they did going by this thread gays would be treated as equals… Or if we went with your views men would probably be being transported to gas cambers right now to be punished for what a few men did.

If you want Louie blame the fascists, blame the church which claims homosexuality is a sin, I don’t care. Just drop the bigoted attitude that 3 billion people you don’t know are conspiring against gays.

I’d also like to point out Finland is not the centre of the world. Many countries DO have gay marriage and adoption, so if Finland doesn’t then instead of blaming me and men like me in foreign countries which do have gay marriage, you should look closer to home.

Well you’ll find most European countries actually do carry out attitude studies every five years, so go get them, check the results, and the come back to me. Until you have evidence you’re just making accusations about people based on gender. Also even assuming most homophobes were male, I fail to see how that makes it the fault of all ‘men’.

I did read your post. That’s where I saw you frequently saying ‘men’ in general statement. Nowhere did you say ‘a number of men’, or even this new statement of ‘most men’. Again can I see this evidence ‘most men’ are homophobic. From my own experience, most men I know are indifferent to gays, they don’t give them much thought but don’t hate them. If you have a different experience maybe Scotland’s just a more tolerant society than Finland, or maybe you just hang around some real gits. Either way, just because the men you know includes a lot of bigots, does not reflect on everyone else of that gender in your country, or even more-so the world.

Oh here we go again, :rolleyes: Louie men are not all the same. You might know what you’re capable of doing towards gays and use that to assume all men are capable of doing the same things towards gays, but not all men share your mind. I don’t really want to know what your mind thinks about gays to make you come out with such terrifying suggestions about the male population, and I don’t want to know what the people you associate with do to them in public either. However, what you and your friends think and do to gays is not reflective of the 3 billion males you don’t know, think differently from you, come from totally different cultures, countries, economic and social backgrounds.

I suggest stop listening to what your mind is telling you to do to gays, and get better friends.

im irish an ure talkin pish, explain how im homophobic when im in favour of gay marage and adoption,

maybe you should say im hetrophobic.

are u telling me there has never been gay bashing, yeah ure right men tolerate gay lifestyle. unfortunaqtly in most places if two people of the same sex are being affectionete to each other. 9 times outta 10 someone will say something or worse.

and if you say that is not true, you must live in a very blinkered world.

in finland people can marry in regster office,,

now go an quote other people cos ure making no sense in answering mine.

oh yeah ,, i got to go now im on stage in an hour. so maybe i better go sack the 27 gay people i have on my staff seeing that im a homophobe, i cant wait to tell them this one.

they are all working for a homophobe. lol.lol.lol.lol.

Edited by louie

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Talon
im irish an ure talkin pish, explain how im homophobic when im in favour of gay marage and adoption,

maybe you should say im hetrophobic.

First, Irish is spelled with a capital. Second, your location says Finland and your English grammar is terrible for someone who comes from a country where it is widely spoken; are you really surprised I didn’t guess you were from Ireland?

Also I’m not saying you are a homophobe… well actually I am, but only because you keep saying men (of which you are one) hate gays without making any distinction between the ones who do (who you apparently know a lot of) and the ones who don’t (like all the people on this thread and the majority the guys I know).

And btw, hetrophobia isn’t something to be proud of, it’s just as bad as homophobia.

Instead of moaning about it, just open your mind to the fact that men are not all Hitler worshipping Nazis as you seem to think. Or failing that be more careful what you write if you don’t want it to be taken on its word.

are u telling me there has never been gay bashing, yeah ure right men tolerate gay lifestyle.

unfortunaqtly in most places if two people of the same sex are being affectionete to each other. 9 times outta 10 someone will say something or worse.

and if you say that is not true, you must live in a very blinkered world.

…. For crying out loud. Are you completely oblivious to the point I’ve spelled out for you a dozen times here. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR ALL THE BAD THINGS HAPPENING TO GAYS DESPITE WHAT YOU THINK! I have never said gay bashing doesn’t happen, or that gays are not treated like second class citizens in many societies. I – since you obviously missed it several times over – am taking exception to your claim all men are to blame for this. Men make up 50% of the population, that’s 3 billion people, you cannot blame 3 billion people for the actions of a few million across the globe. Even if we assumed 1 billion males hated gays that would not mean the remaining 2 billion men were responsible for their actions. And I still think this comes down to your own social circle, because where I come from most people wouldn’t saying anything to a gay couple 9 out 10 times, and how do I know? - because I’ve seen men walking around hand in hand in the middle of Glasgow and with the exception of neds, nobody bats an eyelid.

Even in the above sentence you’re still grouping all men together under the same brush, and then you wonder why I’m objecting it and pointing out that by your own argument you’re a homophobe too!

Grow up! I don’t know if your dislike of straight men is caused by some problems with your father, or you’re uncomfortable with your own sexuality, or you have a bad emotional experience of a child – and I don’t care! It’s quite obvious here you don’t like men, and those men who you do hang around with aren’t that nice people – well that’s your problem, and just speaks volumes about you, not me and the other guys here. Stopping blaming every second person on the planet for all the problems life’s hurling your way. The vast majority of us don’t even come from the same country as you so we are in no way responsible for whatever action it is that turned you into a fascist; its 2007, the dark ages are over, drop your stupid prejudges and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

in finland people can marry in regster office,,
And? You think that’s really impressive? Throughout the western world people can get married in a registers office. Guess what? In many countries including my own, gays can marry as well. So if that’s the case your previous complaint about ‘men’ stopping gay marriage… apparently we’re not doing that well.

now go an quote other people cos ure making no sense in answering mine.

At least I can spell “cause”, "and" and “you’re”, and know that a sentence begins with a capital.

oh yeah ,, i got to go now im on stage in an hour. so maybe i better go sack the 27 gay people i have on my staff seeing that im a homophobe, i cant wait to tell them this one.

they are all working for a homophobe. lol.lol.lol.lol.

If your speach is as bad as your spelling, I pray for your audience you have no speaking parts.

Edited by Talon

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Dr Haisook

I'm not against same-sex marriage or partnership, but I am against child adoption by such couples.

Why I agree about the former is that, though it's really unnatural, homosexuals can't do anything about it. It's in them. No one chooses to be homosexual.

So it's really harsh to ban them from marrying their beloved ones. However, I insist it's unnatural, and I hope science comes up with something to somehow switch homosexuals back to the normal state of sexuality.

Why I don't agree about child adoption by homosexual partner is probably because of the same reason. The relationship would be unnatural and even confusing to the child. All kids in school will be mentioning "Mom" and "Dad", while the adopted child will find one of them missing. Imagine how psychologically disturbing for him/her to find out that both of their parents are "Moms" or "Dads". Very devastating indeed.

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Dr Morbius
I'm not against same-sex marriage or partnership, but I am against child adoption by such couples.

Why I agree about the former is that, though it's really unnatural, homosexuals can't do anything about it. It's in them. No one chooses to be homosexual.

So it's really harsh to ban them from marrying their beloved ones. However, I insist it's unnatural, and I hope science comes up with something to somehow switch homosexuals back to the normal state of sexuality.

Why I don't agree about child adoption by homosexual partner is probably because of the same reason. The relationship would be unnatural and even confusing to the child. All kids in school will be mentioning "Mom" and "Dad", while the adopted child will find one of them missing. Imagine how psychologically disturbing for him/her to find out that both of their parents are "Moms" or "Dads". Very devastating indeed.

I respect your right to a differing opinion, but my opinion is that "natural" and "normal" vary from individual to individual. What is normal to you is unnatural to others, and vice versa. If, as you say, it's "in them", that makes it natural for them, no? Did not generations before us decry mixed-race marriages as "unnatural"?

Kids have a remarkable talent for adaptation. All the science I've seen indicates that two loving committed parents are better than one, and one is better than none. Kids from Mom1 and Mom2 tend to adjust just as well as kids from Mom and Dad, on average. I'd say most American opposite-gender couples with children need to improve as parents, based on my experience. So maybe there should be more stringent social standards on quality parenting, and this would then apply regardless of the genders of the parents.

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MUM24/7
Excuse me, where is your evidence for this claim? You think you can judge what 3 billion people think based on what one person here says? You're just as bigoted as the people you are referring too. I for your information am male, I assure you I am well aware of the existence of lesbians thank you. Before lecturing anyone else about open-mindedness you should go learn to get rid of your own prejudgments.

Well you don't just come across as a sexist, you are a sexist if that’s what you actually think. Banning people from having children, or claiming someone is a better parent because of their gender is out-right bigotry, and your no better than the Nazis or the KKK or any of the other fascists out there that persecute people, they just do it on race, you do it on gender. Given that there are plenty of mothers out there that beat, abuse, abandon, and kill their children, its quite clear that woman are not the best parents based on gender alone. A good parent - despite what your primate belief system dictates - is decided by how they raise their children, not whether their able to carry a child to term. I assume you think all the single fathers out there should have their children taken from them because, god forbid, 'a child can't be raised by a man'!

Here's a scenario for you, men are stronger than woman and when we were cave people were always the leaders because of that strength, I would assume then you would agree with chauvinists who say men should be in charge of the world and woman should be second class citizens as it was back in the caves it was 'natural'. By your logic you will support that idea, and if you don't your not only a fascist sexist, your also a hypocrite.

Women are always saying they shouldn't be persecuted based on gender, well newsflash, neither should men.

As for the mentions here about gay people passing on 'gayness' to children; given most gay people as raised by straight parents, why I ask, did their parents not pass on their 'straightness'. Biologist have known since the 1970s that sexuality is as much genetic as sex and race, will all the fascists here get over it.

Also as for the children getting confused; what about kids in mixed race families, are you against them because that might cause some confusion as well? What about adopting a kid of a different race, would that harm a kids mind if he's black and his parents are white? Oh and heaven forbid the parents are born in a different country from the child,

Here's a question for you, Talon ? Do you know the topic of this thread ? Does it say, "You better agree with Talon's way or it's the highway ?"

Well then, I was asked for my opinion and I gave it....I don't know where you're from but where I'm from , there's still such things as right to your opinion, difference of opinion and finally, respect for someone's opinion... Obviously things that you never learnt about while growing up (or should I say, while still growing up) !!

FYI, I had a couple of people respond to my post prior to you and even though they had a difference of opinion, they remained polite and civil and conveyed their opinions without 'bashing me over the head', unlike yourself......

This indicated to me that you have been ignored all your life (for obvious reasons) and that you cannot carry on a civil conversation without displaying emotions of anger and frustration and bitterness.....Here's a newsflash for you, there are plenty of good therapists out there ....GO SEE ONE !!!!

(For the Mod team - He asked for it).......

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