Child Adoption By Same-Sex Couples

[RougeRat 3]

But you try don't you? Won't you try to give a good life to your kid? There are enough issues that kids face already, would you go on and add one more to the list thinking "oh well, there are so many other issues already, what difference would it make if I add one more" ? No, you try.

I'd rather not have a kid than have a kid who is sure to have a very hard life. You see everything is not in our control, but we try to make it as good as possible, and that is being a responsible parent -being a parent who is in position to provide a good life to his kid.

Sounds good to hear, doesn't work out practically. I repeat, kids cannot handle conflicting ideas at a tender age, they will have a lot of issues at home, school and with friends, if they are bought up by a same sex couple, and please don't give me that "like all the other straight parents are perfect stuff again". A straight average couple any day would be better parents than an average same sex couple.

Yes, same sex couples are not natural or normal, and that does not mean anything bad or wrong in any way. Heck, if they were normal, why can't they have children by themselves naturally? Because, it's not nature's normal course, that's why. Look, I do feel for them and I do not discriminate personally, but we can't risk getting a kid's life messed up just so that gays or lesbians can have a better life. People can choose what they wan't to be, they can live life the way they want to, but I don't agree with knowingly risking a innocent kid's life.

So whats the better alternative? Leaving kids in foster care? Yeah, because foster care is 100% wonderful compared to a real loving family. I'm sure kids just like being tossed and thrown around into different homes. Also, how is being raised by a gay person risking an innocent life?! Source please! I want sources for all these claims of gay parents making all kids insane. Also you keep saying all like every kid raised by a gay parent turns out messed up when that is simply not true at all. Also, who cares about nature. Humanity itself has moves incredibaly far from nature long long ago. Look at all out technology. Nothing is natural about it! People also supress natural urges because of unatural morals. Yeah, go nature. Also, what about homosexuality in the animal kingdom! "nature?" bah, nature.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20..._gayanimal.html

Also, adopted kids are prone to problems because they aren't with their biological parents. A lot of times they may need counsling and some may develop seperation anxiety for fear of being left. Also, kids who are adopted are teased a lot! "They don't have ""real parents"" they didn't love them. Their parents gave them away, they are worthless, no one really wants them." Mean, isn't it? So lets not adopt out any kids because they might have problems.

As for people trying to protect childre because they might be discriminated against, well then I guess I better just go back in time and tell my father not to have sex with my mom so I won't be born. Actually, let me go back even farther than that and tell all my black family members just to never have kids because there is a chance that someone will discriminate against them (and this is waaay back then when things were truely bad.) Also, all the mexicans better go back to mexico. The Irish should have never immigrated here-look at all the stuff they had to go through way back when. They should have just drowned in the sea. It would have been better.

Also, for any white people that live in all black neighborhoods, well don't have kids, someone might not like them!

Yes, there are plenty of single parent families, very common and prevalent in today's world. However, there's still a mum and there once was a dad or there was always mum and no dad and vice versa, we all know the combinations.....Plenty of fathers end up raising the child because THE MUM wont or can't but you see my point, there's always been a mum !!!

Where's the mum if two gay men adopt a child ? I cannot express it any easier than that !!!!!

I'm sorry, I really don't understand what you are saying at all...? There is always a father as well as a mom..I mean..how would the child have gotten there. Where is the mom with a single father? Whats the difference between that and a gay couple?

Anyhow, I would like to see all this evidence of ALL kids that grow up with gay parents are somehow traumatized. Lord knows when people are writing books about the positive experience that they had being raised by gay parents that it's just fake. They will all just go completely insane later on in life.

I basically grew up with my aunt and her girlfriend living with me for quite awhile. My grandmother has a large house and a lot of the family used to live together. Don't think that people didn't think it was weird. Maybe I was just an odd 5 year old, but I found nothing wrong with them. I didn't even know the term lesbian, they were just my aunt and her girlfriend. No one in the house treated it oddly, so it was just normal to me. I'm not gay either. Also, I lived with my grandmother and a good portion of my family until I was almost 6 years old. So, those were some of the years where I obsorbed everything. This is not the same as having gay parents, but I grew up around a gay couple and just wanted to share my experience with it.

People if we want to move on and actually progress, society is going to have to learn to accept homosexuals and their children because the fact is that they CAN adopt and that right is not going to be taken away.

Also, you can't say that a child of mixed heritige would have it better or worse than someone who grows up with homosexual parents at all. All situations are different. The mixed kid might be beat up or threatend. The kid with the gay parents might grow up somewhere tolerant. Or vice versa.

Anyhow, if anyone wants to know about gay children or people growing up with gay parents it's good to do your own handson research. Talk to a peer mediator at a local university and interview them. People go to them all the time and they can tell you some experiences that gay children and people raised by gay couples.

I talked to one, and for all you that think that homosexuality is soley a choice, the mediator said to me that when little boys (using a male example to make is easier) elementary school they were just like you..but instead of getting a crush on a cute girl, they got a crush on a cute boy. They just didn't know how to deal with it or really come out of the closet until they were older though. It is confusing, but only because people force the concept of one man and one woman.

Heck, even a better thing to do would be to interview a universities PRIDE club. Talk to homosexuals face to face and get the issues. There are a lot of heterosexual people in groups like these that were raised by gay parents.Yes, it's hard to be gay but "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" lol

The APA (american psychiatric association) approves of same sex couples being able to raise children, so, so much for the severe psychological damage argument

http://www.psych.org/public_info/libr_publ/position.cfm

http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-03-06/socarides.html

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/parents.html

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na...dlines-politics

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/news-arti...arents-6333.htm

http://www.lethimstay.com/wrong_socscience.html

http://perspectives.com/forums/view_topic....d=96&page=1

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgpchildren.html

Edited February 22, 2007 by RougeRat

[MUM24/7 2]

The problem is that - as MUM24/7 said too - you do not take the matter from a kid's point of view. It's like the kid will readily understand the fact that his/her parents are of the same sex. You easily equalize a kid's mind to an adult one (!). Please do not compare this with the case of mixed race parents. Such cases are now highly integrated into the society, and even if a kid gets teased that his/her mother is chinese, for instance, it won't be as devastating if he/she was teased about having two dads or two moms.

Being liberal and open-minded is a good thing, but psychological disturbances have to be put in consideration as well.

Homosexual partners will not be offended by teasing from others because they're adults and know well what their case is, but kids - at least at present - do not and will not.

We'd rather keep orphans in specialized centers than make them available for adoption by same-sex couples. Not being against the will of such couples, but protecting children from severe psychological damage that would - very likely - ruin their lives in the future.

Sorry guys, but we're not robots. We're humans, and the healthy psychological part of us is highly important for being sane.

Very well said.....

[MUM24/7 2]

See Talon, isn't it nice when you can argue a point in a calm and rational manner.....Very pleasing to see your subsequent posts were somehow toned down....

Anyway back to business.....My original post stated that I have no probs with a lesbian couple adopting a child or having one via artificial insermination.....People have said that either they were raised by a lesbian couple or that they knew a friend who had two mummies and in both cases everything was fine.......OK, so far so good. My question is, does anyone here have two dads or know of a mate who was raised by a gay couple ??

Not two ladies, not an aunt and her partner BUT TWO LOVING DADS......That's what I would like to know....My point is regarding two men adopting, so I would be very interested to hear your views ......

[RougeRat 3]

See Talon, isn't it nice when you can argue a point in a calm and rational manner.....Very pleasing to see your subsequent posts were somehow toned down....

Anyway back to business.....My original post stated that I have no probs with a lesbian couple adopting a child or having one via artificial insermination.....People have said that either they were raised by a lesbian couple or that they knew a friend who had two mummies and in both cases everything was fine.......OK, so far so good. My question is, does anyone here have two dads or know of a mate who was raised by a gay couple ??

Not two ladies, not an aunt and her partner BUT TWO LOVING DADS......That's what I would like to know....My point is regarding two men adopting, so I would be very interested to hear your views ......

I can actually answer that one, or give one point of view atleast. The girl I knew in school that was raised by 2 gay parents was actually raised by 2 fathers. She seemed pretty well adjusted from an outsiders point of view. I was never that close to her but she was pretty smart and had quite a bit of friends. She would talk about it pretty openly as well and I never heard any ewwws from anyone listening in. This was in highschool of course, so people there tend to be a bit more mature than the average middle schooler or elementary school kid.

edit: She was not adopted, but the one parent was her real father with his boyfriend.

Edited February 23, 2007 by RougeRat

[MUM24/7 2]

I can actually answer that one, or give one point of view atleast. The girl I knew in school that was raised by 2 gay parents was actually raised by 2 fathers. She seemed pretty well adjusted from an outsiders point of view. I was never that close to her but she was pretty smart and had quite a bit of friends. She would talk about it pretty openly as well and I never heard any ewwws from anyone listening in. This was in highschool of course, so people there tend to be a bit more mature than the average middle schooler or elementary school kid.

I thought that it still wasn't legal for two men to adopt a child in the US ? Which state are we talking about here ?

[RougeRat 3]

I thought that it still wasn't legal for two men to adopt a child in the US ? Which state are we talking about here ?

This was Indiana. Also, she was not adopted, I should have stated that. Anyhow, it was her real father with another man. Not too sure what happened to the mother actually. She may have just left after he came out of the closet (just guessing).

Another reason why homosexuality needs to be more accepted. You wouldn't have situations like that happening where someone is so ashamed of who they that they pretend to be straight and ruin their spouses life. I know i'd be pretty furious. Homosexuality is confusing and all but I'd more likely be more mad than understanding since the person didn't take my feelings into consideration.

Edit: after some research I couldn't find anything about it being illegal for 2 men to adopt a child. If it's true someone let me know.

Edited February 23, 2007 by RougeRat

[Michelle 23,243]

It's possible that one of them had a child and gained custody from a previous marriage before he came out.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you think it's okay for lesbians to adopt, but it's not okay for gay men? Are you saying that men can't be as loving, supportive and nurturing as a woman?

edit:You beat me to it.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Michelle

[MUM24/7 2]

This was Indiana. Also, she was not adopted, I should have stated that. Anyhow, it was her real father with another man. Not too sure what happened to the mother actually. She may have just left after he came out of the closet (just guessing).

Another reason why homosexuality needs to be more accepted. You wouldn't have situations like that happening where someone is so ashamed of who they that they pretend to be straight and ruin their spouses life. I know i'd be pretty furious. Homosexuality is confusing and all but I'd more likely be more mad than understanding since the person didn't take my feelings into consideration.

Edit: after some research I couldn't find anything about it being illegal for 2 men to adopt a child. If it's true someone let me know.

Right..OK..So let's see...This girl was born to a mum and dad(very normal), mum and dad broke up(very normal) girl lives with her biological dad and his new partner(very normal).....Yes , yes , I can see how this is exactly like two gay men with no biological connection to the particular child applying to adopt it.....

I rest my case, your honour !!!!

[Dr Morbius 0]

What science reports have you seen? I'd be most interested in reading them..have you got a link?

I'm sorry, I do not. I recall stats I've read on other MBs, and only fuzzily. I have not, that I recall, seen any stats supporting the contention that children raised by same-sex couples are maladjusted. In fact, every time I've seen anything it shows the opposite. I'm afraid this means I am asking you to take me at my word, and I understand if I lack credibility in your eyes at the present time.

[SilverCougar 17]

However the fact remains that she grew up NORMAL with two fathers. Reguardless of biological connections.

And if you think all children grow up "normal" when adopted by a hetrosexual couple, you're wrong. Case in point is my brother. We're both adopted... While I grew up to be a rather non trouble maker and whatever you would call "normal"... he grew up with some serious issues. Total disreguard for our parents, friends, family.. nothing my parents did would keep him in line. He loved putting loaded guns in my face and threaten to pull the trigger... got in trouble at school all the time..

And finaly one night, he told our father to f' off, stormed out of the house and went to his druggy friend's house. Later that night, while he was in a car with his friends on a "beer run" (mind you, he was 14 at the time.. and only one person in the car was over 21) they got in a horrible car accident that killed all three people in the front seat, and put my brother in the hospital with serious and criticle injuries. He was in a coma for months.. He's "ok" physicaly health wise now, but still getting in all sorts of trouble, threatening to kill people that live in the same house the state put him in...

So yeah, if this kid who was in a loving HETROSEXUAL HOME, grew up with serious mental issues... *shrugs*

Really, to say that kids who are adopted by homosexuals will turn out with issues is just ignorant to the fact that even kids adopted into hetrosexual home also have the same chance to grow up with mental issues.

[=Jak= 2,640]

Really, to say that kids who are adopted by homosexuals will turn out with issues is just ignorant to the fact that even kids adopted into hetrosexual home also have the same chance to grow up with mental issues.

Not only adopted kids have problem, even their own blood kids face these type of problems. Have u ever thought why this difference between each person attitude?

[=Jak= 2,640]

If it wasn't for adoption... I would have stayed in foster care. However, thanks to adoption, I was raised by two wonderful people and had a life I never would have had. So why be against kids being given a chance to have a better life?

I can't explain why i m against adoption. i give another example, Even i m against offer money to beggers. For that u take some more presious time of urs and buy some food and give to them or feed them. But offering money is cruel. You become a entertainer of beggers. Then criminal start living with that. They make good healthy people to bcom blind beggers and put them in street.

Edited February 23, 2007 by j4jak

[AtlantisRises 746]

Well...

I have to say that I can think of no real reason that Homosexuals should be unable to Adopt children.

Many homosexuals are hardworking, intelligent, educated members of society quite capable of supporting themselves and the children they may adopt, yet people are saying they should not have a right to adopt because it might harm the child. That seems ridiculous to me. I see no reason why a homosexualy couple would be any worse parents then a Heterosexual family.

The claim that the children might be picked on is true but the same goes for children with ethnic parents, or with over-weight parents or children from a poorer family.

My brother is actually homosexual and while I don't think he will be considering children for quite a while it seems to me that he would be a fine parent. He is currently apprenticed as a Desiel Mechanic and will be well able to support himself in the future. He has been in a stable relationship for several years now which is more then can be said for many Hetrosexuals.

The fact of the matter is that there are far more important issues concernig wether a person will be a good person then their sexuality.

As Talon has said repeatedly the only real problem is not caused by the homosexuals... It is caused by the Bigots who believe they have the right to treat the homosexuals as lesser people.

AtlantisRises

[RougeRat 3]

I can't explain why i m against adoption. i give another example, Even i m against offer money to beggers. For that u take some more presious time of urs and buy some food and give to them or feed them. But offering money is cruel. You become a entertainer of beggers. Then criminal start living with that. They make good healthy people to bcom blind beggers and put them in street.

I can't fathom any reason why anyone would be against adoptions. It give millions of children a chance at a normal life. Why/how is that a bad thing?

Also me giving money is not makeing anyone into anything. I can give someone drugs and it would be their choice if they wanted to take it or not. You can't force people to do anything. Beggars, however, for the most part of people who are drug addicts and use money from donations to get high. Thats an unfortunate fact.

[=Jak= 2,640]

Also me giving money is not makeing anyone into anything. I can give someone drugs and it would be their choice if they wanted to take it or not. You can't force people to do anything. Beggars, however, for the most part of people who are drug addicts and use money from donations to get high. Thats an unfortunate fact.

Everyone see the front part. Most of us don't have a idea what exactly going around these people. It is hard to explain to u. If u have not seen anyone forcing other to do their work.

[Cadetak 8]

It seems this topic is more about adopting babies then children. If a gay couple where to adopt lets say a fifteen year old do you think there would be any "damage" to the child?

There is one thing that goes unrecognized in this type of topic...how much do we really know about child development in general? We forget that child growth isn't all about the parents. Two different kids raised by the same exact parents in exactly the same way will turn out different. One kid may grow up to be a saint, the other to be a criminal. If both kids where raised exactly the same way, in the exact same environment, by the exact same parents then the differences in the children's growth has to do with the individual children...their personalities, attitudes, etc, birth traits that have nothing to do with parenting.

People act as if raising kids is like training a dog or programming a robot. There is no definitive right way to raise a child. Some kids who are raised in a good environment turn out bad, some kids who are raised in horrible environments turn out good.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Cadetak47

[=Jak= 2,640]

Well said Cadetak, but can u clear one more doubt of mine, the kid to born insane or mental ill or unhealty..? Is this because of careless parent or ill parent? Or it is because ill mind of parent? I think this totally has be another thread.

Edited February 23, 2007 by j4jak

[Bone_Collector 3]

Kids know at a very early age whether or not they are gay. While kids look up to parents how come kids that grow up in straight households end up being gay? Your arguement is highly flawed and can be turned around on you. Fact is EVERYONE as i said before is entitled to the same rights including child adoption irregardless of culture, race or lifestyle.

Why is is that nuclear families have gay kids? Why is is that most kids who have grown up do not turn out to be gay?

My freind never grew up with major psychological trauma from being teased. Fact is all kids get teased in school for various reasons and thus this arguement is null and void. Likewise there is no evidence to support this theory either. Infact all the evidence thus far shows that kids in gay families live no different then those of the nuclear standard family.

Every smoker doesn't get cancer and every alcoholic doesn't have liver issues, does it mean it's a good for your health to be a smoker or an alcoholic? Same with same sex adoption issue - you try and avoid getting into situations with a high element of risk in them, it's called common sense. Get the idea?

So whats the better alternative? Leaving kids in foster care? Yeah, because foster care is 100% wonderful compared to a real loving family.

I'm sure kids just like being tossed and thrown around into different homes. Also, how is being raised by a gay person risking an innocent life?!

Source please! I want sources for all these claims of gay parents making all kids insane. Also you keep saying all like every kid raised by a gay parent turns out messed up when that is simply not true at all. Also, who cares about nature. Humanity itself has moves incredibaly far from nature long long ago.

Look at all out technology. Nothing is natural about it! People also supress natural urges because of unatural morals. Yeah, go nature. Also, what about homosexuality in the animal kingdom! "nature?" bah, nature.

You do know that homosexuality does not only come by birth but also can be a completely nurtured thing, or are you just conveniently trying to ignore this fact? I am personally aware of several examples of people ending up as homosexuals because they were exposed to homosexual company when they were kids. Not all kids raised by gay parents turn out messed up or gay, I'm only saying the chances are higher. Please do not misinterpret what I say.

Also, there isn't much in the "natural and not normal" talk. More common features across several communities in the society that we live in today, are generally accepted as natural and normal by the society as a whole. That is all there is to it really.

Also, adopted kids are prone to problems because they aren't with their biological parents. A lot of times they may need counsling and some may develop seperation anxiety for fear of being left. Also, kids who are adopted are teased a lot! "They don't have ""real parents"" they didn't love them. Their parents gave them away, they are worthless, no one really wants them." Mean, isn't it? So lets not adopt out any kids because they might have problems.

As for people trying to protect childre because they might be discriminated against, well then I guess I better just go back in time and tell my father not to have sex with my mom so I won't be born. Actually, let me go back even farther than that and tell all my black family members just to never have kids because there is a chance that someone will discriminate against them (and this is waaay back then when things were truely bad.) Also, all the mexicans better go back to mexico. The Irish should have never immigrated here-look at all the stuff they had to go through way back when. They should have just drowned in the sea. It would have been better.

Also, for any white people that live in all black neighborhoods, well don't have kids, someone might not like them!

What do you wish to discuss really? Adoption in genral? Racism? What?

Adopted kids are prone to problems? Yes! Who said no? I'm only saying kids adopted by same sex couples will have more problems than kids adopted by a straight couple.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Bone_Collector

[RougeRat 3]

Every smoker doesn't get cancer and every alcoholic doesn't have liver issues, does it mean it's a good for your health to be a smoker or an alcoholic? Same with same sex adoption issue - you try and avoid getting into situations with a high element of risk in them, it's called common sense. Get the idea?

You do know that homosexuality does not only come by birth but also can be a completely nurtured thing, or are you just conveniently trying to ignore this fact? I am personally aware of several examples of people ending up as homosexuals because they were exposed to homosexual company when they were kids. Not all kids raised by gay parents turn out messed up or gay, I'm only saying the chances are higher. Please do not misinterpret what I say.

The chancers are higher for adopted children in general to be "messed up".

Also, I am not offended by homosexuality in any way. The thing is, what is wrong with growing up as a homosexual. If parents somehow influence their kid to be one way or the other the person is not being true to themselves and the issue is probably much deeper than that. Heterosexuality can be a learned behavior. We have kids who grow up straight or atleast try to be, then later in life after a bunch of failed relationships and confusion they come out of the closet or they hold it in and are really miserable.

Anyhow, someone explain to me why so many gay children come from straight parents then?

http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

Also, there isn't much in the "natural and not normal" talk. More common features across several communities in the society that we live in today, are generally accepted as natural and normal by the society as a whole. That is all there is to it really.

What do you wish to discuss really? Adoption in genral? Racism? What?

Adopted kids are prone to problems? Yes! Who said no? I'm only saying kids adopted by same sex couples will have more problems than kids adopted by a straight couple.

I'm discussing if gay people should be allowed to adopt and using obvious comparisons. The struggle that homosexuals face now is no different than the struggle women or minorities went through to gairn their equal rights.

Anyhow, how would you feel about someone adopting a kid a different race as themselves? People like that are also bound to be made fun of quite mercilessly.

Like it's been said again and again, if we keep making excuse for biggots then we are never going to make progress.

[Bill Hill 6]

I'm sorry, I do not. I recall stats I've read on other MBs, and only fuzzily. I have not, that I recall, seen any stats supporting the contention that children raised by same-sex couples are maladjusted. In fact, every time I've seen anything it shows the opposite. I'm afraid this means I am asking you to take me at my word, and I understand if I lack credibility in your eyes at the present time.

That’s ok. I hope I didn’t come across as confrontational; I am genuinely interested from the science perspective. I have no hidden agenda, it’s just when certain people (not you btw) start to accuse other people as being ‘bigoted’ (overused word) or homophobic (almost meaningless) simply because they are questioning the mechanisms which may lead to homosexuality- it has the opposite effect on me- It makes me want to question it and I refused to give in to simplistic bullying tactics to silence debate.

Most researchers now think that there is no single gay gene that controls whether a person is homosexual or not. Rather, it's the influence of multiple genes, combined with environmental influences, which ultimately determine whether a person is gay.

A touchy subject

Research into the genetics of sexual orientation is controversial. Religious leaders who believe that sexual orientation is a choice argue that such research is an attempt to legitimize homosexuality; others worry that a detailed knowledge of the genetics underlying homosexuality will open the door to genetic engineering that prevents it.

But Bocklandt doesn't think these concerns should prevent scientists from asking the basic question of whether homosexuality has an underlying genetic component to it or not.

"I have no doubt that at some point we'll be able to manipulate all sorts of aspects of our personality and physical appearance," Bocklandt said. "I think if there's ever a time when we can make these changes for sexual orientation, then we will also be able to do it for intelligence or musical skills or certain physical characteristics—but whether or not these things are allowed to happen is something that society as a whole has to decide. It's not a scientific question."

link

And this is interesting taken from a gay site-

Some theories on sexual development claim that homosexuality is developed after birth as a result of a person’s environment. Environmental factors such as a child's relationship to his same-sex parent or peers, and the presence of sexual abuse or molestation can affect sexual development (See Questions & Answers). While other theories have suggested that homosexuality is genetic and can be traced to a specific gene.

Most researchers, by this time, have come to the conclusion that sexual orientation is likely determined by a complex interaction between a person’s genetic make-up and their environment. However, there are still some who claim that science has found a “gay gene.”

The three most well-known scientific studies were conducted by Simon LeVay, whose study claimed to have found a “difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men”2; Bailey and Pillard, who studied the prevalence of homosexuality among biological twins and adopted brothers3; and Dean Hamer, who claimed to have found a “linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation.”4 Interestingly, all of these researchers, except Bailey, are self-identified gay men.

link