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Blair orders withdrawel of troops


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blair is bringing the troops home; in the face of bush's troop surge...any thoughts?

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For real??

Well, I guess they are "with the terrorist" now. Or maybe they are afraid of a Russians response when we attack Iran. Either way, I think Blair can see the writing on the wall and is doing damage control.

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Really? For Iraq, good. We should be doing the same, we have won in Iraq, we have done our part. The Iraqis never fully stepped up. The only war we should be fighting right now is afghanistan. But who knows, he may be pulling out to invade Iran?

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Anybody bother as of why they're going home?

Mr Johndroe said: "While the United Kingdom is maintaining a robust force in southern Iraq, we're pleased that conditions in Basra have improved sufficiently that they are able to transition more control to the Iraqis.

"The United States shares the same goal of turning responsibility over to the Iraqi Security Forces and reducing the number of American troops in Iraq."

BBC political correspondent James Landale said: "We have been expecting an announcement for some time on this."

BBC News

*gasps* That would have to mean there is progress in Iraq.

[sarcasm]For shame on the Brits for thinking there could be even the slightest amount of progress in Iraq! [/sarcasm]

Though, even despite this I know Prince Harry is going to go to war yet in Iraq. His unit is leaving soon there.

Edited by __Kratos__
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*gasps* That would have to mean there is progress in Iraq.

lol, progress. Is that why Bush want a surge?? So to the Brits it means they can pull some troops home and to the Americans it means send more? That is a logic only the media sheep can follow.

Don't worry, no matter what they will tell you the war was a victory. lol, they allready did years ago. sheeple...

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The people in Basra are happy and feel that they are ready now to be on their own and protect themselves, the doom and gloom people as usual sees it as a defeat and a win for the Terrorist. :rolleyes:

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Really? For Iraq, good. We should be doing the same, we have won in Iraq, we have done our part. The Iraqis never fully stepped up. The only war we should be fighting right now is afghanistan. But who knows, he may be pulling out to invade Iran?

We do. Then the enemy will take over again. Though some of the Iraqi men are somewhat trained. :/

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lol, progress. Is that why Bush want a surge?? So to the Brits it means they can pull some troops home and to the Americans it means send more? That is a logic only the media sheep can follow.

Don't worry, no matter what they will tell you the war was a victory. lol, they allready did years ago. sheeple...

Well that's interesting, do you even know why there will be a surge? The surge is for mainly two hotspots in Iraq. As the UK pulls troops out, Iraqis are taking control of that area, not Americans.

:blink: Yeah, the war was a victory. Do you even know what that victory even really meant? It means that the allies defeated Saddam's military and Saddam. That's victory. Your context is just wrong. Right now there is a rebuilding of Iraq for Iraqis.

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I wish sheep and sheeple were bleeped out of UM....I'm so sick of hearing people called that.

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Well that's interesting, do you even know why there will be a surge? The surge is for mainly two hotspots in Iraq. As the UK pulls troops out, Iraqis are taking control of that area, not Americans.

:blink: Yeah, the war was a victory. Do you even know what that victory even really meant? It means that the allies defeated Saddam's military and Saddam. That's victory. Your context is just wrong. Right now there is a rebuilding of Iraq for Iraqis.

Well, thank god we won the war. Now we can get back to whats important.

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I wish sheep and sheeple were bleeped out of UM....I'm so sick of hearing people called that.

I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me.

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Good grief, midge...can't you come up with something more original? You spout the same thing over and over like FOX news.

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I love you to Michelle. I don't know what I would do without your whiney posts about what other people post. If Fox News and I are to much for you, maybe you should just stick to Fox News. Choose your shepherd wisely Michelle.

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Well, blair, he got stiffed on the contracts to rebuild iraq .. america almost got them all . He only managed to get some measly contract for the uk so he won't play ball anymore . Good i say, that'll teach the foolish english to play with the americans, all you get is a lot of friendly fire deaths, and no juicy bonus contracts . They all go to mr bush's corporate friends . All those needless uk soldiers deaths , just to feed the US greedy industrialists .. just to be joint partners in this grand episode of shame and crime.

Edited by Anubi
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Ministry of Defence poll shows -

1% of Iraqi citizens who think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country.

65% of Iraqi citizens support the insurgent attacks.

82% are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops.

67% of Iraqis who feel less secure because of the occupation.

43% of Iraqis believe conditions for peace and stability have worsened.

72% do not have confidence in the multi-national forces.

71% of people rarely get safe clean water.

47% never have enough electricity.

70% say their sewerage system rarely works.

40% of southern Iraqis who are unemployed.

source

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For real??

Well, I guess they are "with the terrorist" now. Or maybe they are afraid of a Russians response when we attack Iran. Either way, I think Blair can see the writing on the wall and is doing damage control.

Or perhaps he's worried that more British troops will die from American 'friendly fire'.

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Or perhaps he's worried that more British troops will die from American 'friendly fire'.

Nah man. Its becuase there is "progress" in Iraq. I mean 71% of people dont have clean water. That percentage has to be down from 80 or 90 percent right? So things are improving. All this "progress" is why only 1% of Iraqi citizens think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country. Cause heck, things are so good there that there is just no way Allied forces could make life in Iraq any better for the people. :tu:

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Nah man. Its becuase there is "progress" in Iraq. I mean 71% of people dont have clean water. That percentage has to be down from 80 or 90 percent right? So things are improving. All this "progress" is why only 1% of Iraqi citizens think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country. Cause heck, things are so good there that there is just no way Allied forces could make life in Iraq any better for the people. :tu:

You're basing your opinion on a poll taken over 2 years ago.

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You're basing your opinion on a poll taken over 2 years ago.

Nice try. It would have been 16 months ago, not even a year and a half ago. Care to provide and evidence things have changed significantly in the past 16 months?

Iraq worsening...

U.S. Intel Report: Iraq Spiraling Down

U.S. intelligence report predicts worsening Iraq violence

He said: "This clearly states that the Government's hearts-and-minds policy has been disastrous. The coalition is now part of the problem and not the solution.

"I am not advocating a pull-out but if British soldiers are putting their lives on the line for a cause which is not supported by the Iraqi people then we have to ask the question, 'what are we doing there?'

16 months later the British answer this question and begin pulling out thier troops.......

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Nice try. It would have been 16 months ago, not even a year and a half ago. Care to provide and evidence things have changed significantly in the past 16 months?

Iraq worsening...

U.S. Intel Report: Iraq Spiraling Down

U.S. intelligence report predicts worsening Iraq violence

16 months later the British answer this question and begin pulling out thier troops.......

So, where's that recent poll? 16 months or 2 years, I was looking at 2005 date.

So now you're basically saying that the mission in Iraq is getting tough, so we should just bail? Just ignore all the new security threats in Iraq that will affect the US, ignore the fact that we owe the Iraqi people and ignore the fact that if we leave now it'll be just a victory for the terrorists.

The UK troops that will be leaving, those security details will be taken over by the Iraqis. Just like Iraqis have taken back parts of their country for their own security forces.

Iraqi Army in the Lead (link)

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So, where's that recent poll? 16 months or 2 years, I was looking at 2005 date.

Thats what I asked you for. 16 month is different than the 24+ you said.

So now you're basically saying that the mission in Iraq is getting tough, so we should just bail? Just ignore all the new security threats in Iraq that will affect the US, ignore the fact that we owe the Iraqi people and ignore the fact that if we leave now it'll be just a victory for the terrorists.

Getting tough? I thought there was progess?? Come on which is it?

We have done all we can for the Iraqies, and that poll shows they don't want us there. Since the violence has only increased over the past 16 months, I think it pertty clear they STILL do not want us there.

Andrew Robathan, a former member of the SAS and the Tory shadow defence minister -

"This clearly states that the Government's hearts-and-minds policy has been disastrous. The coalition is now part of the problem and not the solution."

But we are helping.......

If after almost 4 years 70% of Iraqis don't even have clean water. Then are not helping very much.

And your point of "should we just ignor new security threats". Thats what got us into this mess in the first place. Bogus inteligence played aginst the fears of the american people. New security threats? LIKE WHAT? They dont even have clean water and you think they are a threat? Please, please explain. Let me guess first. Some bad guys will move in and take control and it will be a "Hot bed" for the terrorist. Oh, scary. The terrorist allready have a vast network in 50 counrties around the world, remember????. Iraq wont make much if a diffence it they want set up camp there to as well. Heck, new security threats? We made the new security threats. There were no ties to al quaeda in Iraq before we attacked. When are you people gonna figure out that invading countries isnt going to stop the terrorist. And as we are seeing in Iraq, its only going to make things worse - we now have "NEW SECURITY THREATS". Thats a heck of a way to fight a war. lol

The UK troops that will be leaving, those security details will be taken over by the Iraqis. Just like Iraqis have taken back parts of their country for their own security forces.

And yet we need to send 50k more troops? For other areas right? Sure thing, makes sense. Sort of like how first there is "progess" and then things are getting "tough".

I have bad news for you. 65% of Iraqis suppport the insurgent attacks. That somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 million Iraqis. 15 million who don't just want us out, but are supporting the insurgent attacks on our troops. Throwing 50k more troops into Iraq is only going to make it worse. You are allready arguing that there is both progess and its getting tougher, that things are both improving so coalition troops can come home and at the same time saying things are getting worse so we need to send more. Your argument is so self contradictory is laughable. Its only going to get harder and harder for you to keep that BS afloat.

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Thats what I asked you for. 16 month is different than the 24+ you said.
I don't have a recent poll, and niether do you.

Getting tough? I thought there was progess?? Come on which is it?

We have done all we can for the Iraqies, and that poll shows they don't want us there. Since the violence has only increased over the past 16 months, I think it pertty clear they STILL do not want us there.

:huh: It's tough in areas, yet there is progress.

Their government sure does. The violence is hardly a clear sign for 26+ million people of Iraq. When the ones doing the violence are less then even 1% of the total population. Violence is also being commited from outside fighters that are terrorists.

But we are helping.......

If after almost 4 years 70% of Iraqis don't even have clean water. Then are not helping very much.

And your point of "should we just ignor new security threats". Thats what got us into this mess in the first place. Bogus inteligence played aginst the fears of the american people. New security threats? LIKE WHAT? They dont even have clean water and you think they are a threat? Please, please explain. Let me guess first. Some bad guys will move in and take control and it will be a "Hot bed" for the terrorist. Oh, scary. The terrorist allready have a vast network in 50 counrties around the world, remember????. Iraq wont make much if a diffence it they want set up camp there to as well. Heck, new security threats? We made the new security threats. There were no ties to al quaeda in Iraq before we attacked. When are you people gonna figure out that invading countries isnt going to stop the terrorist. And as we are seeing in Iraq, its only going to make things worse - we now have "NEW SECURITY THREATS". Thats a heck of a way to fight a war. lol

4 year of progress examples...

In March, the US Army Corps of Engineers completed construction of the $118 million new power generation plant in Basra province (In Iraq). The new plant will provide power to about 1.5 million residents.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has distributed nearly $33 million worth of equipment to the Ministry of Electricity, including cranes, trucks, transformers, cable, computers, software, safety equipment, towers and other equipment. The USACE program has also provided extensive training on the equipment to enable the MOE personnel to operate and maintain both the equipment and power systems throughout the country.

More than $33 million of new medical equipment has been distributed to the Iraqi Ministry of Health to replace dangerously outdated instruments in hospitals and clinics throughout Iraq.

Before March 2003, only 5.5 million of Iraq’s 25 million citizens had access to a safe and stable water supply. Today nineteen potable water treatment facilities have been built or rehabilitated, providing a standard level of service to about 2.7 million more Iraqis.

20 - 30 vessels per week dock at Iraq’s Umm Qasr port.

Approximately 12 passenger carriers are approved to fly into Iraq.

11,400 trained staff at 2000+ community child care units nationwide screen for and manage malnutrition. They provide monthly rations of high protein biscuits to malnourished children under five and pregnant and lactating mothers.

Date production is a major export industry. Wheat is the nation’s most important crop and is grown by a majority of farmers, but Iraq imports up to three million tons of the grain annually. Furthermore the date palm has strong religious and cultural significance to Iraqis.

The USG has rehabilitated 32% of Iraq’s schools, for a total of 4,544 schools.

14,000 formerly out-of-school youth are enrolled in an MoEd-endorsed Accelerated Learning Program.

Women comprise 25% of the Iraqi Parliament, which is the highest proportion in the Arab world and one of the largest percentages worldwide.

Today, the Iraqi Air Force consists of more than 800 members, and like all Iraqi forces, is being rebuilt as part of the overall program to build a new Iraqi defense force.

Completed Gulf Region Division water treatment projects have provided the capacity to serve an additional 2.2 million Iraqis with potable water. At the end of the program, the added capacity could serve approximately 5.2 million Iraqis with potable water.

In 2006, education opportunities improved for Iraqis with 838 of 849 schools completed. Each completed school serves approximately 400 students for a total of 335,200 students nationwide.

------

As for the threats, yes they are real. There is already terror groups moving into Iraq and are operating there now. "We made the new security threats." Yep, we did and now we have to stop them.

And yet we need to send 50k more troops? For other areas right? Sure thing, makes sense. Sort of like how first there is "progess" and then things are getting "tough".

I have bad news for you. 65% of Iraqis suppport the insurgent attacks. That somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 million Iraqis. 15 million who don't just want us out, but are supporting the insurgent attacks on our troops. Throwing 50k more troops into Iraq is only going to make it worse. You are allready arguing that there is both progess and its getting tougher, that things are both improving so coalition troops can come home and at the same time saying things are getting worse so we need to send more. Your argument is so self contradictory is laughable. Its only going to get harder and harder for you to keep that BS afloat.

Yeah, because the UK was only in charge of those sections while the US is in charge of others.

Do you really think that poll asked 15 million Iraqis? If 15 million Iraqis were fighting, that would be a different story but they aren't.

There is progress though. :yes: There is also some areas that are tough. Iraq is a big country to narrow down all the countries problems to one city.

You don't understand me I guess. The section where the Brits were, has improved enough for Iraqis to take over because they can do the job. Just like the US has done with Iraqis across Iraq.

How am I stepping on my own toes? Because the UK is pulling out of it's section while the US is beefing up it's section? :blink:

Edited by __Kratos__
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Their government sure does. The violence is hardly a clear sign for 26+ million people of Iraq. When the ones doing the violence are less then even 1% of the total population. Violence is also being commited from outside fighters that are terrorists.

I understand there are about 30,000 insurgent which are about 90% Iraqi.

Do you really think that poll asked 15 million Iraqis? If 15 million Iraqis were fighting, that would be a different story but they aren't.

Obviously not, 15 million is a loose estimate based on the percentage of Iraqis in the poll. Considering there is something like 24 million Iraqis. They are not fighting but they support the fighting.

There is progress though. :yes: There is also some areas that are tough. Iraq is a big country to narrow down all the countries problems to one city.

You don't understand me I guess. The section where the Brits were, has improved enough for Iraqis to take over because they can do the job. Just like the US has done with Iraqis across Iraq.

I understand both moves, the withdrawl and surge, are to establish Shiite control of Iraq. The Sunni are on the chopping block.

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