Bob Lazar

[Belial]

now flip that coin your holding.

[DeltaT]

So let me get this straight.

You're saying Bob Lazar forged a W-2 slip, then somehow hid it in the administrative records and made it hard for KLAS TV reporter George Knapp to uncover it.

Now which true skeptic would believe such a scheme.

Edited March 18, 2007 by DeltaT

[Unlimited]

So let me get this straight.

You're saying Bob Lazar forged a W-2 slip, then somehow hid it in the administrative records and made it hard for KLAS TV reporter George Knapp to uncover it.

Now which true skeptic would believe such a scheme.

can one debunker tell me why; naval intelligence would hire lazar if he was a fraud?.............

[jaylemurph]

Haven't we gone through this already?

Nobody's denying he's got the blasted W-2, but look how much it's for! Scientists on the level Lazar claims -- but cannot prove -- to be don't work cheap. A W-2 form for a thousand dollars suggests he didn't do much work there as a scientist. I still think he's a janitor -- and that would be about right for the pay.

--Jaylemurph

[Jjbreen]

So let me get this straight.

You're saying Bob Lazar forged a W-2 slip, then somehow hid it in the administrative records and made it hard for KLAS TV reporter George Knapp to uncover it.

Now which true skeptic would believe such a scheme.

You are the 4th Person to win the official WOW - AWARD! .... Congratulations!!

I now know for certain you did not read my post and questions directed towards you. This actually proves it... Thank you -

Are you trying proved just how ignorant you are choosing to be???

It is also obvious you have no Critical Analytical or Reasoning Skills. This post of your's proves it too.

You know, I did suggest: "It is better to be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." You are quickly removing all doubt..

[DeltaT]

Haven't we gone through this already?

Nobody's denying he's got the blasted W-2, but look how much it's for! Scientists on the level Lazar claims -- but cannot prove -- to be don't work cheap. A W-2 form for a thousand dollars suggests he didn't do much work there as a scientist. I still think he's a janitor -- and that would be about right for the pay.

--Jaylemurph

You should make more inquiries before stating things out of hand. According to the reporter, this slip represents payments (after deductions) for five days non-consecutive working at the S-4 base.

So Lazar made about 6000 dollars a month. I guess that's about what can be expected, especially in 1989.

See here for more.

Edited March 18, 2007 by DeltaT

[Jjbreen]

Haven't we gone through this already?

Nobody's denying he's got the blasted W-2, but look how much it's for! Scientists on the level Lazar claims -- but cannot prove -- to be don't work cheap. A W-2 form for a thousand dollars suggests he didn't do much work there as a scientist. I still think he's a janitor -- and that would be about right for the pay.

--Jaylemurph

Jay - this is actually turning into the Delta T comedy hour!

I went to the sight that he linked to and I quote:

slip represents payments, after deductions, for five days, (non-consecutive) working at the S4 base. Lazar started at the end of December 1988. And had only been at the base five times before the new year.

So we see for all of 1989 he only worked there 5 days.

So $958.11 / 5 = $191.62 a day = $23.9525 an hour.

Still less then I make w/my Degree and my sister makes more than this as an office manager and NO degree... So umm... HUH??

Oh and the badge: Umm, well let's just say - this raises even more doubts to his story and claim....

Clue: How many get to keep their ID Security badges when they are no longer employed? No one. They stay on the INSIDE OF the door when you walk out of it.

In fact some of the higher security 'zones' - you don't even get to go home w/it. It stays on sight for a very good reason.

Guess why??

This would be one of those "ZONES" that so would NOT let you walk out w/the badge.

Another FLAW in this story.

Jj -

[MissMelsWell]

First of all, I haven't been following this thread...

But on the idea of throwing this back in my face... numerous documentaries and interviews have happened with Lazar and when folks do research for their articles they go back and find expose information from other people who knew them. In-so-far, none of these researchers have been able to locate a SINGLE person who has been able to verify that Lazar went to any university, much less MIT.

Next,

Isn't the Office of Naval intelligence in MARYLAND? Not DC?

Oh and the badge: Umm, well let's just say - this raises even more doubts to his story and claim....

Clue: How many get to keep their ID Security badges when they are no longer employed? No one. They stay on the INSIDE OF the door when you walk out of it.

TRUE -- I worked a civilian contract at Quantico twice... one for the Marines, one for the FBI... I don't think they'd have let me off that base without turning in my badge. It would have been a HUGE ordeal if I couldn't produce it.

Edited March 18, 2007 by MissMelsWell

[jaylemurph]

When I get my W-2 from an employer, it includes /all/ the money I earned for a year. But that's just me.

...maybe he worked just one week in a fiscal year before the year ticked over?

--Jaylemurph

[Jjbreen]

First of all, I haven't been following this thread...

But on the idea of throwing this back in my face... numerous documentaries and interviews have happened with Lazar and when folks do research for their articles they go back and find expose information from other people who knew them. In-so-far, none of these researchers have been able to locate a SINGLE person who has been able to verify that Lazar went to any university, much less MIT.

Next,

Isn't the Office of Naval intelligence in MARYLAND? Not DC?

TRUE -- I worked a civilian contract at Quantico twice... one for the Marines, one for the FBI... I don't think they'd have let me off that base without turning in my badge. It would have been a HUGE ordeal if I couldn't produce it.

Actually Miss - you haven't missed much of the recent thread. Delta is defending (poorly I might add) Rober Lazar and his claim. He has pretty much AVOIDED (and very obvious too) my posted questions for him. Which say a whole lot right there. But in the avoidance of such and what he tries to bring up has only proved to back-fire in his face.

Yes this specfic security badge would have NEVER left the building - even while still employed for the the five days, when you leave for the day - THE BADGE STAYS! Taking it would of been no small security breech. I know one company here that would take the employee to NO SMALL task if you leave w/the security badge. You do NOT even take it out with you to lunch. It STAYS at the security desk when you are NOT in the building. It can also be grounds for termination and criminal prosecution depending on the given situation.

So this here is another flaw in the story.... and not a small one either.

[Cherus]

Just out of curiosity why are you guys still talking about Bob Lazar?

[MissMelsWell]

Actually Miss - you haven't missed much of the recent thread. Delta is defending (poorly I might add) Rober Lazar and his claim. He has pretty much AVOIDED (and very obvious too) my posted questions for him. Which say a whole lot right there. But in the avoidance of such and what he tries to bring up has only proved to back-fire in his face.

Yes this specfic security badge would have NEVER left the building - even while still employed for the the five days, when you leave for the day - THE BADGE STAYS! Taking it would of been no small security breech. I know one company here that would take the employee to NO SMALL task if you leave w/the security badge. You do NOT even take it out with you to lunch. It STAYS at the security desk when you are NOT in the building. It can also be grounds for termination and criminal prosecution depending on the given situation.

So this here is another flaw in the story.... and not a small one either.

I would have to agree with you there. I was, both times, working on projects that required me to have only the lowest level of security clearance. I did take my badge/ID with me... because those facillities are so controlled, it would have been impossible for me to get into a section that I wasnt' suppose to be in, I had no access to systems where I could accidentally or deliberately uncover something I shouldn't see.

I was working on computer systems, but building them out brand new and had no access to the network, with the exception of the isolated test network we set up to ensure the applications were working correctly in a network environment. What they did with the system after I left I have no clue.

But needless to say, if couldn't produce my badge at the end of my contract, it would have been hellish. I don't know what would have happened specifically, but I have a feeling they could have held me for days. Obvoiusly I had the ID with me when I entered the base, there would have been serious questions about why I didn't have it on departure.

I suppose had I quit, I'd have had my badge still... but I'm thinking if I had higher security clearance, i wouldn't have been able to take that badge off base. In fact, i think I vaugely remember some folks leaving a card or badge of some type with the base security, but I didn't pay much attention-it was almost 10 years ago.

I still wonder if anyone can verify whether the Naval Intelligence Office is in Maryland or DC.. I SWORE it was in Maryland.

[Jjbreen]

I still wonder if anyone can verify whether the Naval Intelligence Office is in Maryland or DC.. I SWORE it was in Maryland.

Quick Google search says, both in Maryland and in DC.

I Googled this: Naval Intelligence Office is in Maryland or DC?

Jj -

[itsnotoutthere]

I'll use your own tactic against you: do you have any proof to back that up?

Ahh the old believers trick....''i challenge you to disprove something that has not yet been proven'' brilliant.

[MissMelsWell]

Quick Google search says, both in Maryland and in DC.

I Googled this: Naval Intelligence Office is in Maryland or DC?

Jj -

Hmmm, if I get motivated, I might have to check that out a little deeper. If there is an office in both locations it would be interesting to know which one deals with payroll.

[DeltaT]

When I get my W-2 from an employer, it includes /all/ the money I earned for a year. But that's just me.

...maybe he worked just one week in a fiscal year before the year ticked over?

--Jaylemurph

Jaylemurph, that's precisely the case. Read what John Farhat writes on Lazar's website:

"In August 1990, George Knapp, the reporter that first broke the story, uncovered a W2 for Robert Lazar. This slip represents payments, after deductions, for five days, (non-consecutive) working at the S4 base. Lazar started at the end of December 1988. And had only been at the base five times before the new year."

[Unlimited]

Jaylemurph, that's precisely the case. Read what John Farhat writes on Lazar's website:

"In August 1990, George Knapp, the reporter that first broke the story, uncovered a W2 for Robert Lazar. This slip represents payments, after deductions, for five days, (non-consecutive) working at the S4 base. Lazar started at the end of December 1988. And had only been at the base five times before the new year."

makes perfect sense to me....delta the flame baiting jj's doing to you here......he doesnt have any proof so?...

Edited March 19, 2007 by limited

[jaylemurph]

Jaylemurph, that's precisely the case. Read what John Farhat writes on Lazar's website:

"In August 1990, George Knapp, the reporter that first broke the story, uncovered a W2 for Robert Lazar. This slip represents payments, after deductions, for five days, (non-consecutive) working at the S4 base. Lazar started at the end of December 1988. And had only been at the base five times before the new year."

/If/ Lazar managed to produce some actual knowledge of physics

/If/ Lazar could at least have successfully pretended to have attended an Ivy League university as he claims

/If/ Lazar could at least have successfully pretended to have graduated with a MS as he claims,

Then that might just be plausible. But no-one's going to pay Lazar anything to be a scientist if he can't even get a story to hang together that suggests he is one.

I might just hire the man to be a janitor, though. As long as everything valuable's locked away tight.

--Jaylemurph

[Jjbreen]

Ahh the old believers trick....''i challenge you to disprove something that has not yet been proven'' brilliant.

The thing that surprises me -

As I have stated - Delta is now seriously reminding me of the 17 yr old from another UM forum that asked me:

"Jj - do air moleculres rise when warm, or did you just make that up??"

Thing is the proof has been posted here earlier on this thread - not to mention many other threads here on UM. There are no small amounts of websites showing Robert Lazar open his mouth, put both feet in and chew... The evidence has only all too well been documented and post here on UM.

The thing that so many have seen and noticed about Delta T and a few others - they seem, w/a lot of obviousness - AVOID those posts and links. Like well "They don't exist..." - "If I ignore them, they'll go away...", and the thing is they don't go away - in fact they just become that more obvious w/their all too silly attempt to avoid them.

So he keeps "opening his mouth and removing all doubts ....." to the point that it becomes just silly to dialog with him, because of his foolish ignorance, on purprose or other wise - to ignore the proof and facts that have been presented, not to mention the all to obvious questions and flaws.

Jj -

[badeskov]

I don't know what you're trying to get at. The W2-slip uncovered by investigative journalist George Knapp proves that Robert Scott Lazar was paid by Naval Intelligence. The badge has the same code as the slip. It could be of a janitor (by that you would contend Lazar was indeed employed at S-4), but it could also be of a physicist.

I am most certainly not alluding to that he worked at S-4 (if that facility exists at all). Just because he has a W-2 slip from Naval intelligence doesn't mean that he was at S-4. I would assume that they have offices many places...he could even have been hired to mow the lawn in Maryland...

Lazar is a proven physicist. His name appears in the Los Alamos phone directory, although the nuclear lab repeatedly tried to get in line with the official stance that Lazar never worked there and is just a fraud. Here is a scan of that find by George Knapp.

No he most certainly isn't, which has been pointed out by numerous posters in this thread alone. And he did not work for for LANL, he worked for an external contractor that did work for LANL!

There is enough reason to take Lazar as a genuine whistleblower -- if it wasn't for the wave of unsubstantiated innuendo and meaningless skeptical arguments thrown his way. I'm sure you'll think of another one.

Oh, I don't need meaningless skeptical arguments. The facts that are available does the job just fine, thank you.

Best,

Badeskov

PS: pardon the late response to your post...

[DeltaT]

Still no explanation for the discovery of the W2-record. No explanation for Lazar's name in the Los Alamos phone book directory. It's all labelled fake, without any proof that it's fake.

People can make up their own mind.

[DeltaT]

I am most certainly not alluding to that he worked at S-4 (if that facility exists at all). Just because he has a W-2 slip from Naval intelligence doesn't mean that he was at S-4. I would assume that they have offices many places...he could even have been hired to mow the lawn in Maryland...

No he most certainly isn't, which has been pointed out by numerous posters in this thread alone. And he did not work for for LANL, he worked for an external contractor that did work for LANL!

Oh, I don't need meaningless skeptical arguments. The facts that are available does the job just fine, thank you.

Best,

Badeskov

PS: pardon the late response to your post...

So from being a total whack job, he at least is considered a Naval Intelligence employee. One that was paid almost $1000 for a midweek's work.

That's an improvement.

You say he didn't work for Los Alamos, but for a subcontractor. Could you provide some information about that claim?

[Jjbreen]

Still no explanation for the discovery of the W2-record. No explanation for Lazar's name in the Los Alamos phone book directory. It's all labelled fake, without any proof that it's fake.

People can make up their own mind.

Why do you keep avoiding the obvious and throw out this babble that has not only been addressed MORE then a few times - but you seem to simply ignore them as well....

I'm sorry - but what you keep on posting is just pure 100% foolishness. Answer the questions that were addressed you instead of avoiding them.

Read the sights/links that have been posted that clearly show Lazar made a fool of himself and a liar. I'm reminded of what Obie-Wan stated to Hans.... "Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the one following the fool?" You are following a guy that has done an excellent job of making a fool of himself: Robert Lazar, so are you really choosing to follow this fool?? Then what does that make you?

Now are you going to answer the questions - or just keep ignoring them. Which only proves just what kind of character you are. And you are proving to be quite the character:

Oh - and here is again the post directed to you - just incase, "you missed the other ones...."

Delta T - Wow, Lazar certainly made his lies believable to you! I have a bridge that I will sell you Hawaii. I have the "title" - "pictures" and such to show you....

But here - do us all a favor - I dare you to answer the following:

Why can he not tell us when he graduated - received his diplomas from: MIT??

Better yet:

Why can he not show us the said diplomas from said schools: MIT??

Ask yourselves this:

.... What year did you graduate from high school?

.... What year(s) did you graduate from college(s)?

.... Do you still have your degrees easy to get if need should arise?

See, this is not something someone just forgets - nor would they, UNLESS they have something to hide!

In fact the only paper he has shown is 1 (one) pay stub for $1,000.00 and Tax Form.

(Even janitors get paid better than this....)

Why isn't he found ANY Year Books from the "named schools"??

(Think about this for a moment. How many year books are sold at a given year?)

So how is it we are lead to believe - 'they' covered all these Year Books from EVERYONE that had one????

Why - because THIS IS NO SMALL REQUIRMENT, are there NO published papers of his in ANY journals of science disciplines?

That is a lot of libraries, online libraries that digitize and people's personal collection of publications 'exchanged' with Bob's stuff mysteriously deleted!

As for the Los Almos Phone directory - what is he listed as??

One person told me he has a friend listed, because he supplied at one time: specialty light bulbs.

See, now I understand this is isn't a court of law, BUT - if it was, there would be serious doubts and questions raised to his 'testimony' here because he cannot provide stated evidence that would be needed.

..... One diploma from MIT would clear his name so fast of any lies.

..... One year book from MIT w/his name in it would clear his name.

If he was known and had friends, they would come forward w/their year book - saying: "Look he's right here, under "L".

….. One periodical with a need paper that was published.

Now the idea that the 'government erased all of this':

Use just a little "C.A.R.S." here - (Critical Analytical Reasoning Skills) –

.......... Do you know how many Year Books they would have to erase and/or 'recall'??

.......... Do you know how many published periodicals they would have to 'recall' and republish??

You honestly do not think this would NOT be noticed?? That it wouldn't seem a 'tad strange' by some and would wonder, "Why??" I know I certainly would be asking questions....

Some would 'fall through the cracks', there are simply just too many. IF even one was found w/a published paper w/his name on it. This would speak volumes!

I have several friends that are Prof's and Dr. that have ALL their published works and Papers and the publications they are published in - they are proud of them, it was no small task to write these and go through the 'review process'.

So since he cannot come forward w/ANY of these, let alone one - his whole testimony is basically "shot to hell" and would be found: He Lied. Because simply put, he is lying.

So see if you can find REASONABLE answers to the above - if you or better yet B.L cannot provide these - then you have to ask: WHY?

That is seriously A LOT of history, publications and papers that just "vanished"??

So then what is trying to 'rationalize' vs what is clearly seen to be a 'lie'??

The evidence is simply there – that he is not telling the truth. He tried a scam and eventually it failed, he was “found out”.

IF ANY OF YOU HAVE SOME --- Please step up to the plate.

Likely though this will go 'ignored' .... or will just bring up the pay stubs - which again as I posted: I have pay stubs and tax forms from City, County and State Police - Court Systems, Legal and Medical and even have ID badges that get me through some fairly high security zones, that most employees do not have access too. But that does mean or prove: I'm a Judge, Cop, Lawyer, Doctor or Medical/Scientist or any degrees as such. BTW: my pay stubs are a lot more than a $1,000.00 too. Good thing, I'd have looked for work else where if it was only $1,000.00.

Now choose to ignore this one last time and do not answer the questions directed to you and you have shown 'what you are made of'. Ball is in your court, dude.... I would change the tatics you have used thus far - they have not served you well. Time to show even just a little wisdom.

[morrison1976]

When i heard Lazar, many years ago, he did come across as honest, and i did think that he could be telling the truth. But the more you look into his past, the more you find holes that have not been answerd. I like Knapp alot, and he has done some positive things in the ufo field, but he should drop lazer. He is nothing but a hoaxer, and like meier, he is hurting the ufo subject.

The problem is, that just like hardcore de-bunkers, so hardcore believers will not change there mind. They will not turn around and say. ok, i was wrong about this. Sometimes you have to admit that you are wrong, so that you can move on. There are many interesting and important cases and witnesess out there, Lazar, is not one of them!

[DeltaT]

I'm answering. We agree that Lazar worked for Naval Intelligence and Los Alamos national laboratory. Good.

Now, in what capacity... ? Many here have argued that Lazar could have been a janitor for all we know. Wrong. A janitor doesn't make nearly $1000 in five days.

Lazar's job could well have been scientific. After all, his commercial business deals with nuclear materials and rather ingenuous propulsion devices (hydrogen-based, among others). In the light of his salary and current occupation, this line of employment seems to have been the most logical one.

There is more corroborative evidence that Lazar is who he says he is. On June 28 of 1982, there was a reported meeting between Robert Lazar and Dr. Edward Teller, the nuclear scientist behind the H-Bomb. Dr. Teller visited Los Alamos where Robert Lazar worked. Teller was there to give a speech. In an interview with George Knapp from a Las Vegas television station Lazar explained what happened:

"I had built a jet car, and they put it in the local newspaper on the front page. As I walked up to the lecture hall, I noticed Teller was outside sitting on a brick wall reading the front page. I said, ‘Hi, I’m the one you’re reading about there.’ He said, ‘That’s interesting.’ I sat down and had a little talk with him."

Then in 1988, when searching for a job, Bob Lazar sent a copy of his resume to Dr. Edward Teller. On November 29, 1988, Teller phoned and gave Lazar a name of someone at EG&G, a company believed involved in advanced space propulsion systems.

Dr. Teller was confronted by George Knapp about Lazar. He responded:

"Look, I don’t know Bob Lazar. All this sounds fine. I probably met him. I might have said to somebody I met him and I liked him, after I met him, and if I liked him. But I don’t remember him . . . I mean you are trying to force questions on me that I simply won’t answer."

Adapted from Presidential UFO / Reagan.

Teller probably didn't consider Lazar to be a janitor.