Is worship a sign of mental illness?

[brave_new_world]

It's simple really

Very clear, like music drifting in the air

Invisible but everywhere

Just because I cannot see it

Doesn't mean I can't believe it!

[squirrelmuphs]

You know I think I just figured this out!

Studies have shown that prayer can boost serotonin levels in the brain. So think about it. Someone who pushes their serotonin levels to an extreme is probably going to wind up with a side effect along the way.

Too much serotonin is a bad thing. If you look at people who have "gone off their meds" so to speak, they are probably not taking medicine that replicates or adds serotonin to the brain.

When a worshiper stops praying or worshipping, especially if they have been worshipping in extreme ways, they will probably crash.

So its like they are raising their serotonin levels to extreme highs and then they crash. Then they want it back again. So its like a cycle.

I'll have to do more research on this.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/4116.html

What studies?

I read most of the article and man, if I just prayed more everythign that is going loopy with me will be all better?--I haven't slept in three days, I try just can't, and I haven't eaten in over a week, also just am not hungry. It doesn't really affect me, well the no sleep does, but I'm not that worried.

But source the praying/serotonin article please.

[Saint]

I think all religious worship requires that one be detached from reality, truethat.

[squirrelmuphs]

I think all religious worship requires that one be detached from reality, truethat.

Well that would be a detachment from reality assuming that the faith in that religion was a fallacy. Because if it weren't than the worship is a sense of reality, because God, and Heaven and Hell are all also realities to the worshiper.

[Saint]

Well that would be a detachment from reality assuming that the faith in that religion was a fallacy. Because if it weren't than the worship is a sense of reality, because God, and Heaven and Hell are all also realities to the worshiper.

My point, exactly!

[squirrelmuphs]

But my point is if it is not a fallacy than the worshiper is actually seeking a deeper reality.

[artymoon]

People are people, and we all know some that have extreme personalities. It doesn't matter how much differently each of us defines extreme, because each of us can personally say we know of an extreme type person that doesn't fit into the religious framework. We could also say we know one that does. When we start to blame an idea or religion for the way people act, it takes away from the personal responsibility of individuals. Its easy to claim religion causes this, religion causes that, religion breeds evil people. You can get lost in the philosophies of it all. If you want to go that route, then the opposite could be said, that religion breeds good people. But I'd rather not go that route, I'd prefer to say life breeds people, good or bad by our own definition. We could start all over again tomorrow, a clean slate.... but these good/bad tendencies would still be there, naturally.

[hairston630]

I would guess worship is one of those words we all have a different interpretation off.

All humans have built in needs and desires the greatest need we all have is love and companionship. This need was placed within us by our Creator for a reason because it is part of Him and we are made in His image.

Christianity strives to regain this personal relationship we once had in the garden, to walk talk and commune with God on a personal level.

Christianity is the only world religion that has this ultimate goal. Others see God as cold and unapproachable who demands worship and adoration in return for not smiting us with a glance or a point of His finger.

I chose Christianity because I believe the Creator loves His Creation so much that He was willing to live as a mortal for 33 years, feeling pain, thirst and hunger and even shedding tears over losses. He became 100% human so that He could relate to our day to day mortal existence. And offers us the branch of forgiveness and the promise of fellowship.

Therefore the first goal of Christianity is to re-establish that personal relationship.

And the final goal is to unselfishly share the means to accomplish this with all that are willing to listen.

Irish

wow.....that was stated so well...That is the true Gospel

[bee]

Worship of, whichever prefered god/goddess is a MENTAL (and emotional) experience.

I think that the scales are tipped and worship becomes an ILLNESS when the person loses the ability to say....my beliefs MAY be wrong.

People in the mental illness category would therefore include anyone who has been indoctrinated beyond the point of questioning,

and people who become obsessed with their beliefs, unable to tolerate the possibility that those beliefs may be incorrect.

[truethat]

Even though Kratos drives me nuts and it kills me to do this (Takes a frying pan and slams him over the head a few times to feel better)

HE'S RIGHT

I want to pause on this for a second. For all those who say "God doesn't tell mothers to kill their children" my answer is YES HE DOES.

He tells people to kill children all the time in the bible and other holy books.

And this is very important because if he didn't then I'd kinda have some possibility to the fact that he might be real.

But you can't say to someone who thinks God is telling him this "No that's the evil at work, look at the bible, God never condones killing people" because it's not true. God condones killing babies and children many times throughtout the bible. The Exodus for example.

When the fundy says "Well God has his reasons beyond what I understand." Then Bingo....that's why the mentally ill person believes that "God wants them to do this for reasons beyond what I understand"

On this note, perhaps this is why the bible reads as it does. When you get in an "enlightened state" through drugs or serotonin boosts mixed in with the crazy is a lot of profound stuff.

I know schizophrenics who say brilliant and deep things. So perhaps the books were written by schizophrenics or mentally ill people.

squirrel the studies are easy enough to find if you google it. I thought it was commonly known.

[IamsSon]

Even though Kratos drives me nuts and it kills me to do this (Takes a frying pan and slams him over the head a few times to feel better)

HE'S RIGHT

I want to pause on this for a second. For all those who say "God doesn't tell mothers to kill their children" my answer is YES HE DOES.

He tells people to kill children all the time in the bible and other holy books.

And this is very important because if he didn't then I'd kinda have some possibility to the fact that he might be real.

But you can't say to someone who thinks God is telling him this "No that's the evil at work, look at the bible, God never condones killing people" because it's not true. God condones killing babies and children many times throughtout the bible. The Exodus for example.

When the fundy says "Well God has his reasons beyond what I understand." Then Bingo....that's why the mentally ill person believes that "God wants them to do this for reasons beyond what I understand"

On this note, perhaps this is why the bible reads as it does. When you get in an "enlightened state" through drugs or serotonin boosts mixed in with the crazy is a lot of profound stuff.

I know schizophrenics who say brilliant and deep things. So perhaps the books were written by schizophrenics or mentally ill people.

squirrel the studies are easy enough to find if you google it. I thought it was commonly known.

Surprise, surprise, I have to disagree.

First off, you will have to note that all of that killing commanded by God occurred in the Old Testament, you don't see that in the New Testament. (In fact, with the exception of "Revelations", the whole focus of the New Testament is on one death--His own.) There's a whole host of theological explanations as to why this is, but you can read for yourself that it is so. And through Jesus's teachings God established His current approach to man, which again can be summed up as "Love God and Love People". So, yes, you can say to someone today, who is thinking God wants them to kill someone, that they are wrong, that God does not want them to kill in His name, because that is firmly established in the New Testament. Even when you look at the Book of Revelations, you don't see God commanding man to kill others. I am in no way discounting the Old Testament, there are many great lessons to be learned from it, it will always be an important indication of the different ways in which God has dealt with man, and it's also a good way to see how different His approach is now.

This life is intended to prepare those who will move on to the next assignment for that assignment, as all training, it goes through stages, and also it develops over all, so that the way say, Burger King employees are trained today is different from how they were trained in the days before segregation ended (this is an example and I'm not even sure BK was around during desegregation, it's just an example picked randomly), in part, based on the lessons learned by those trained in the previous way. BK management and employees should not discount how employees were trained before, they should keep it in mind, to insure that new employees are trained more efficiently. The Old Testament allows us to see the many different ways God tried to approach man, and gain an understanding of the ways in which man continued to ignore Him and rebel against Him, which will, it is hoped, give us a better appreciation of the way He approaches us today and why it is different from His previous approaches and how man still finds ways to disregard Him.

[MissMelsWell]

Ah but come on, the question was "Is worship a sign of mental illness" not "Are people who worship mentally ill"

There's a difference there. Ya, some people who worship ARE mentally ill... but it's not a sign OF mental illness.

[MissMelsWell]

IamsSon, I have to agree with your last post, there's no other healthy way to look at it.

[IhartU]

My husband comes from an extremely religious family and every summer, we go to 'church camp'. This one time, during a service, people started to shout 'Amen!', cry and act all freaky. The atmosphere in their was beyond description... it was like mass hysteria.. I ran out of there as fast as I could! It was said that the 'Holy Spirit' was present , but I happen to think people just got out of hand. I never want to witness anything like that again!

[Caana]

No, only that they don't believe in themselves.

[Irish]

My husband comes from an extremely religious family and every summer, we go to 'church camp'. This one time, during a service, people started to shout 'Amen!', cry and act all freaky. The atmosphere in their was beyond description... it was like mass hysteria.. I ran out of there as fast as I could! It was said that the 'Holy Spirit' was present , but I happen to think people just got out of hand. I never want to witness anything like that again!

In the bible there was never a mention that all churches should worship the same way. In fact many of the scriptures in the New Testament were letters written to the individual churches in different cultures. There never was to be a one world church as some Christians are led to believe.

I myself tend to gravitate to more conservative churches as it is more suited to my personality. I shy away from the holy rollers because I don’t feel comfortable in that environment. That being said I have no problem with other Christians who prefer to worship in a spirit filled way.

Irish

[__Kratos__]

*has small heart attack at truethat's post*

IamsSon, why would an all knowing and all powerful god have to change at all? Then why should humanity ignore his horrific slaughter of mankind, the rape, the slavery, and really just in general the suffering caused just in that one time period?

Please don't tell me you've turned into a bleeding heart liberal that thinks people can "change" so we shouldn't punish them or think lowly of them. Child molesters, rapists, murderers can all change and be thought nicely of then with no prison time?

When you do bad, you should be decked with punishment and well that image will haunt you for life.

I'm pro-death penalty, tracking or keeping locked up child molsters and rapists, life time or death for murderers and more. Only way this world is going to move forward is through letting people know these actions are completely and utterly unacceptable. Some liberal isn't going to tell me different. Morals as a human being is what I want for everybody.

Edited February 28, 2007 by __Kratos__

[MissMelsWell]

In the bible there was never a mention that all churches should worship the same way. In fact many of the scriptures in the New Testament were letters written to the individual churches in different cultures. There never was to be a one world church as some Christians are led to believe.

I myself tend to gravitate to more conservative churches as it is more suited to my personality. I shy away from the holy rollers because I don’t feel comfortable in that environment. That being said I have no problem with other Christians who prefer to worship in a spirit filled way.

Irish

Nice, in fact, it's not really even mentioned that Chruch's are a requirement at all.

I personally find it very hard to Worship (or be delusional if you perfer Ya, I see ya there Kratos) in a wild and loud environment with people talking, yelling, crying, etc... I find it's much more theraputic in complete silence. That doesn't mean I wish to worship alone, I don't, but in a group, with a common goal (to silently walk in the light and experience God) suits me quite well. I suppose it's a little like yogaic meditation, but without having to turn yourself into a pretzel.

[MissMelsWell]

*has small heart attack at truethat's post*

IamsSon, why would an all knowing and all powerful god have to change at all? Then why should humanity ignore his horrific slaughter of mankind, the rape, the slavery, and really just in general the suffering caused just in that one time period?

Please don't tell me you've turned into a bleeding heart liberal that thinks people can "change" so we shouldn't punish them or think lowly of them. Child molesters, rapists, murderers can all change and be thought nicely of then with no prison time?

When you do bad, you should be decked with punishment and well that image will haunt you for life.

I'm pro-death penalty, tracking or keeping locked up child molsters and rapists, life time or death for murderers and more. Only way this world is going to move forward is through letting people know these actions are completely and utterly unacceptable. Some liberal isn't going to tell me different. Morals as a human being is what I want for everybody.

I'm not sure I disagree with most of that Kratos (although we will argue details and verbiage)...

I'd like to ask you something if you don't mind. Say an adult who was repeatedly sexually abused and tortured as a child turns around and premeditates and kills their abuser (which is murder 1 in the USA). What should their punishment be? Have they suffered enough? OR should they be held accountable for their actions?

Edited February 28, 2007 by MissMelsWell

[Irish]

*has small heart attack at truethat's post*

IamsSon, why would an all knowing and all powerful god have to change at all? Then why should humanity ignore his horrific slaughter of mankind, the rape, the slavery, and really just in general the suffering caused just in that one time period?

Please don't tell me you've turned into a bleeding heart liberal that thinks people can "change" so we shouldn't punish them or think lowly of them. Child molesters, rapists, murderers can all change and be thought nicely of then with no prison time?

When you do bad, you should be decked with punishment and well that image will haunt you for life.

I'm pro-death penalty, tracking or keeping locked up child molsters and rapists, life time or death for murderers and more. Only way this world is going to move forward is through letting people know these actions are completely and utterly unacceptable. Some liberal isn't going to tell me different. Morals as a human being is what I want for everybody.

Kratos why do you accuse of crimes, someone or something that you believe does not exist?

A non entity in your belief cannot be guilty or innocent of anything.

So therefore it must be some of the followers of this imaginary entity that you have a problem with. And since these individuals you are accusing have been dead for over two thousand years and are unable to explain to you why they did what they did, perhaps it is time to move on.

There are plenty of Christians today you can condemn all you want, including myself, but please have the evidence on hand as I can not be accountable nor excuse people that claimed to have been led by God centuries ago.

Irish

[IamsSon]

*has small heart attack at truethat's post*

IamsSon, why would an all knowing and all powerful god have to change at all? Then why should humanity ignore his horrific slaughter of mankind, the rape, the slavery, and really just in general the suffering caused just in that one time period?

Please don't tell me you've turned into a bleeding heart liberal that thinks people can "change" so we shouldn't punish them or think lowly of them. Child molesters, rapists, murderers can all change and be thought nicely of then with no prison time?

When you do bad, you should be decked with punishment and well that image will haunt you for life.

I'm pro-death penalty, tracking or keeping locked up child molsters and rapists, life time or death for murderers and more. Only way this world is going to move forward is through letting people know these actions are completely and utterly unacceptable. Some liberal isn't going to tell me different. Morals as a human being is what I want for everybody.

Kratos why do you accuse of crimes, someone or something that you believe does not exist?

A non entity in your belief cannot be guilty or innocent of anything.

So therefore it must be some of the followers of this imaginary entity that you have a problem with. And since these individuals you are accusing have been dead for over two thousand years and are unable to explain to you why they did what they did, perhaps it is time to move on.

There are plenty of Christians today you can condemn all you want, including myself, but please have the evidence on hand as I can not be accountable nor excuse people that claimed to have been led by God centuries ago.

Irish

Thanks, Irish, I couldn't have said it better.

I'm not sure why you're accusing me of being liberal K. I'm really not sure at all what you're referring to.

If you read what I wrote, I said that God is now dealing with us in a different way. I never said God changed, do you change when you address an issue in a different way? I also don't think He's changed His approach because He's trying to find the correct approach, I believe He's doing it so that we can see He has tried many many ways.

Edited February 28, 2007 by IamsSon

[MissMelsWell]

I'd be honored if someone accused me of being liberal... but then we'd have an argument of what liberal really is and boy that would be UGLY. Every bit as ugly as arguing religion.

[__Kratos__]

Kratos why do you accuse of crimes, someone or something that you believe does not exist?

A non entity in your belief cannot be guilty or innocent of anything.

So therefore it must be some of the followers of this imaginary entity that you have a problem with. And since these individuals you are accusing have been dead for over two thousand years and are unable to explain to you why they did what they did, perhaps it is time to move on.

There are plenty of Christians today you can condemn all you want, including myself, but please have the evidence on hand as I can not be accountable nor excuse people that claimed to have been led by God centuries ago.

Irish

I do because to believers he is real. When I was in bible study, these facts where something of a joke and a great thing that god did these for the other people. We didn't hear though about the rape and all the other parts of the bible though. Although I used to read the bible a bit, it never really dawned on me. All that was brought forward in church, family gathering, religious school (every week, wed. night) was all the rosy 'good' stuff. I prayed every single night to these ideals. I really did like the idea of someone watching out and over me. All that guardian angel ideas and the idea of jesus being there with my every step was wonderful.

Then I lost my faith. I changed around and became finally my beliefs what I have today. All this time while learning about other religions and more about the christian faith. I was a bit shocked when I looked at the bible without the wanting to believe but with a rational outlook. I read about the net more and I just can't think why people would want to believe in this.

So yes, I speak out against these things because people believe he is real and still follow him despite these things.

Here's the evidence of just the killing...

How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)

32.9 million dead.

I know it's a blog, but the blogger has been kind enough to link all the bible verses in the chart to the proper section of the bible while also listing the verses.

Example of rape...

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Examples of slavery...

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Certainly not my values.

I'm not sure why you're accusing me of being liberal K. I'm really not sure at all what you're referring to.

If you read what I wrote, I said that God is now dealing with us in a different way. I never said God changed, do you change when you address an issue in a different way? I also don't think He's changed His approach because He's trying to find the correct approach, I believe He's doing it so that we can see He has tried many many ways.

You want to ignore and think god is alright despite his deeds.

Why does he need to find the right way though? He's all knowing and all powerful. He should know off the bat how to deal with us pesty humans. Right?

Edited February 28, 2007 by __Kratos__

[Caana]

Try along the lines of 32 billion, and that would be just from here. Those who become infected, either help or stand by, when the others who are infected kill others, they are the one's who come up with the reasons why those others where killed. What you speak of is empty and caused by infection.

They will not continue to triumph, for in the end, they really are empty, just being used.

Your written history of so called facts, can not begin to describe all those the religious virius infected{and spiritualists} have slaughtered.

Your belief is not reguired, only that you heard the truth.

[Beckys_Mom]

I do because to believers he is real. When I was in bible study, these facts where something of a joke and a great thing that god did these for the other people. We didn't hear though about the rape and all the other parts of the bible though. Although I used to read the bible a bit, it never really dawned on me. All that was brought forward in church, family gathering, religious school (every week, wed. night) was all the rosy 'good' stuff. I prayed every single night to these ideals. I really did like the idea of someone watching out and over me. All that guardian angel ideas and the idea of jesus being there with my every step was wonderful.

Then I lost my faith. I changed around and became finally my beliefs what I have today. All this time while learning about other religions and more about the christian faith. I was a bit shocked when I looked at the bible without the wanting to believe but with a rational outlook. I read about the net more and I just can't think why people would want to believe in this.

So yes, I speak out against these things because people believe he is real and still follow him despite these things.

Here's the evidence of just the killing...

How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)

32.9 million dead.

I know it's a blog, but the blogger has been kind enough to link all the bible verses in the chart to the proper section of the bible while also listing the verses.

Example of rape...

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Examples of slavery...

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Certainly not my values.

You want to ignore and think god is alright despite his deeds.

Why does he need to find the right way though? He's all knowing and all powerful. He should know off the bat how to deal with us pesty humans. Right?

I hardly ever say this to you, but I have actually read this word for word, and I gotta say, you have put a lot of thought into this...it's made a lot of sense, good points, and ....EXCELLENT POST!!