Astrology: Setting the record straight

[Eagle Eye]

In that

1) Astrology is science

2) That the sun's magnetic field has any impact whatsoever on us human beings living on Earth

Best,

Badeskov

Answers ~

1) Astrology is a science. I practice it as one and know from direct experience and expertise. If one can forecast the weather using astrology ~ that makes it a science. Moreover, why is it that you have no problem with BIO-LOGY, or GEO-LOGY, or ZOO-LOGY as sciences, but have a problem with the FIRST science of mankind - ASTRO-LOGY? Jeez.

2) The Sun's magnetic field influences the ENTIRE solar system ~ including the Earth. You are aware of the IMF? To say that the Sun does not have any impact on us human beings on Earth is silly. Of course the Sun has impact on human beings, animal, and plant life ~ all life on Earth.

You do know that without the Sun, no life would exist on Earth, do you not? You need to learn more about the Sun's magnetic field. Try viewing how planets and comets activate sunspots. View the tons of NASA/NOAA film from SOHO and see for yourself.

[Ryo Ohki]

Can you prove astrology is real?

[Alara]

Can you prove astrology is real?

What kind of proof would you consider proof?

Assuming you've read this entire thread. Do you have any specific questions besides saying "can you prove astrology is real"?

[Ryo Ohki]

Whats the weather going to be tommorow in Los Angeles?

Edited March 13, 2007 by Ryo Ohki

[Please Explain]

Hey guys, please leave Astrology alone.

It's not for you. It takes ten times the Bible studying it.

[Alara]

Whats the weather going to be tommorow in Los Angeles?

I'm sure Theodore will reply, but I have to ask, why tomorrow? For instance if I read the weather report online and told you and it turned out to be true would you consider that proof?

[Alara]

Hey guys, please leave Astrology alone.

It's not for you. It takes ten times the Bible studying it.

Who are the "guys" you're addressing, lol?

[Please Explain]

I think i'm on a wrong side of the fence.

[Alara]

I think i'm on a wrong side of the fence.

Explain please what side is that, Please Explain. LMAO! Btw, I love your name, haha.

[Please Explain]

Explain please what side is that, Please Explain. LMAO! Btw, I love your name, haha.

Only my name?

[Alara]

Only my name?

We're going off topic. Please answer my question. Or do I have to say what else I love?

[badeskov]

Or do I have to say what else I love?

Uhm, beer?

Best,

Badeskov

[Alara]

Uhm, beer?

Best,

Badeskov

Ah yes! Though not just any beer. But I think this is as much as I'm willing to go off topic here, lol. I only wish Please Explain & Ryo Ohki would reply. But I'm used to Ryo Ohki doing exactly that. Asking something then abandoning a topic. *sighs*

[badeskov]

Answers ~

1) Astrology is a science. I practice it as one and know from direct experience and expertise. If one can forecast the weather using astrology ~ that makes it a science. Moreover, why is it that you have no problem with BIO-LOGY, or GEO-LOGY, or ZOO-LOGY as sciences, but have a problem with the FIRST science of mankind - ASTRO-LOGY? Jeez.

I guess we just have to politely disagree on this matter, as Astrology is NOT a science. One cannot forecast the weather using Astrology, pardon me for being so blunt. And, moreover, I have no problem with BIO-LOGY, or GEO-LOGY, or ZOO-LOGY as sciences, that is correct, but I do have problems with NUMERO-LOGY and, you guessed it, ASTRO-LOGY. They all fall in the same category and are at best pseudosciences. To use your word, jeez. And why is that? To quote you from earlier:

No matter the level of sunspot activity ~ there are ALWAYS electromagnetic lines of force throughout ALL of the Earth ~ ALL THE TIME. Sometimes they are higher, other times, lower ~ but EVERY SQUARE FOOT OF THE EARTH ~ this planet ~ is always pierced by electromagnetic lines of force. All the time.

Astrologers "read" these modulations, based on mathematical princips discovered and outlined by the classical astrologer Johannes Kepler, and then forecasted based on thousands of years of observations and records of the influences, such as those on the weather, which I forecast using astrology, and based on the works of Ptolemy, Brahe, Galileo, and Kepler ~ all of them astrologers.

Which leads to your next statement:

2) The Sun's magnetic field influences the ENTIRE solar system ~ including the Earth. You are aware of the IMF? To say that the Sun does not have any impact on us human beings on Earth is silly. Of course the Sun has impact on human beings, animal, and plant life ~ all life on Earth.

You do know that without the Sun, no life would exist on Earth, do you not? You need to learn more about the Sun's magnetic field. Try viewing how planets and comets activate sunspots. View the tons of NASA/NOAA film from SOHO and see for yourself.

Those put together are in my ears absolute nonsense. I completely agree that without the sun we wouldn't exists, but that doesn't mean that we humans are dependent or even predictable based on the Sun's magnetic field passing through Earth. It is simply too small. If you at any given time measure the magnetic field going through your body, it'll by far be dominated by that of the Earth and whatever electronic machinery you are close to. You won't even be able to measure the Sun's magnetic field; the fraction of the total field is simply too small.

To make a crude analogy, say yo take a big glass and into that you pour 1ml of whiskey. Now into the same glass you pour the rest of the whiskey bottle and you drink the whole thing. What you are basically saying is that it was the first 1ml that made you drunk and not the other 999ml. Magnetic fields are the same and thus you cannot separate that of the Sun and Earths, thus I hope you see that the Sun's influence on events here on Earth is pure nonsense. Agreed, there are effects in the upper atmosphere, but discernable effects on you as a single human being, nothing, nada.

Sorry, but I maintain my stand, Astrology can be an entertaining activity for some and I respect that, but science it is most certainly not!

Best,

Badeskov

[badeskov]

Ah yes! Though not just any beer. But I think this is as much as I'm willing to go off topic here, lol. I only wish Please Explain & Ryo Ohki would reply. But I'm used to Ryo Ohki doing exactly that. Asking something then abandoning a topic. *sighs*

Yes, lets try and stay on topic But I think I will have a beer now, speaking of which....

Best,

Badeskov

[Ryo Ohki]

I picked tommorow for no reason. It was a off topic question you asked me if I had any questions.

[Please Explain]

"Anyone can call themselves an astrologer, but there's so much to learn and study.

So, it's an academic study. Not science...not quackery...etc.

[Alara]

I picked tommorow for no reason. It was a off topic question you asked me if I had any questions.

I assure you that was no off topic question. I was encouraging you to be more specific ON TOPIC.

[badeskov]

So, it's an academic study. Not science...not quackery...etc.

In my opinion, yes, it can be an academic study. It is not science, no, simply because it does not meet the scientific standards. Quackery, I guess that depends on the person practicing it. But that goes for all fields - quackery you can find everywhere

Best,

Badeskov

[Cebrakon]

Is Astrology Relevant to Consciousness and Psi? Geoffrey Dean and Ivan Kelly (pdf).

Discussion of the recent study by Dr. Peter Hartmann in Science News.

For a general discussion of studies see these sites: Great Moments in Science and Astronomical Society of the Pacific.

Not everything of importance is a form of knowledge. Music, art, philosophy, literature, sports and other kinds of competition are not sciences, but they are probably more important in our lives than science. It might help if we thought of astrology as a form of game, involving the astrologer and the client, and is not intended to provide universal principles that would apply to everyone.

~~~Cebrakon

[Lilly]

Not everything of importance is a form of knowledge. Music, art, philosophy, literature, sports and other kinds of competition are not sciences, but they are probably more important in our lives than science. It might help if we thought of astrology as a form of game, involving the astrologer and the client, and is not intended to provide universal principles that would apply to everyone.

Since you quoted me am I to assume this is directed to me? If so, I would refer you back to page 2 where I said:

Now, if you want to call Astrology a spiritual belief or a personal philosophy I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, none of this makes a case (even remotely) for Astrology being called a science.

I'm not going to comment any further in this thread.

[Eagle Eye]

I guess we just have to politely disagree on this matter, as Astrology is NOT a science. One cannot forecast the weather using Astrology, pardon me for being so blunt. And, moreover, I have no problem with BIO-LOGY, or GEO-LOGY, or ZOO-LOGY as sciences, that is correct, but I do have problems with NUMERO-LOGY and, you guessed it, ASTRO-LOGY. They all fall in the same category and are at best pseudosciences. To use your word, jeez. And why is that? To quote you from earlier:

Which leads to your next statement:

Those put together are in my ears absolute nonsense. I completely agree that without the sun we wouldn't exists, but that doesn't mean that we humans are dependent or even predictable based on the Sun's magnetic field passing through Earth. It is simply too small. If you at any given time measure the magnetic field going through your body, it'll by far be dominated by that of the Earth and whatever electronic machinery you are close to. You won't even be able to measure the Sun's magnetic field; the fraction of the total field is simply too small.

To make a crude analogy, say yo take a big glass and into that you pour 1ml of whiskey. Now into the same glass you pour the rest of the whiskey bottle and you drink the whole thing. What you are basically saying is that it was the first 1ml that made you drunk and not the other 999ml. Magnetic fields are the same and thus you cannot separate that of the Sun and Earths, thus I hope you see that the Sun's influence on events here on Earth is pure nonsense. Agreed, there are effects in the upper atmosphere, but discernable effects on you as a single human being, nothing, nada.

Sorry, but I maintain my stand, Astrology can be an entertaining activity for some and I respect that, but science it is most certainly not!

Best,

Badeskov

That's fine by me, but again, that is your uninformed opinion, not fact. As I've said, until you've spent more time learning about Astrology rather than merely commenting on it, you're not going to get any closer to learning more. It is like that with anything.

You are also 100 percent wrong about Astrology and forecasting weather. It was the first thing I learned to do applying astrological principles, and I forecast advance weather and climate conditions months in advance using what is today called Astrometeorology ~ astronomical weather forecasting. I do it all the time, and accurately using the princips developed by many classical astrologers who invented meteorology as a branch of the omniscience ~ particularly the weather forecasting techniques of Ptolemy, Brahe, and Johannes Kepler, and others.

Weather forecasting is one of the earliest forms of astrology ~ quite ancient ~ and the astrological principles developed work to this very day and I practice it well. I have a 85% accuracy rate of forecasting weather and climate conditions, and been doing so for many years. I was trained by some of the best American astrometeorologists of the 20th century.

You seem to be under the false impression of many things concerning "science" and especially when it comes to Astrology. I suggest you take some time to conduct proper reading & study before making such statements.

I also would remind you that all the weather and climate conditions on Earth begin in space, from the mathematical alignments of the Sun, Moon, and planets relative to the Earth. All things are regulated. Astrophysical to geophysical. Cause to Effect. It has been this way since the beginning of time.

Like I said, if you think that weather forecasting cannot and has not been done using Astrology ~ you are 100 percent wrong. Just plain incorrect. I suggest you do some serious reading, and check the historical and scientific facts.

I've been trained in the astrological sciences since I was 10 years old, and practice it as a science, so, you can say whatever you want, but it does not reflect the actual truth of the matters concerning astrophyical to geophysical and yes, even metaphysical realities.

There is a reason why there is a LOGY after the word ASTRO. You do not seem to realize the importance of this fact, and you should take the time to do so. I continue to find your references to Astrology more akin to a predisposed opinion relating to pop astrology. Not the same. Not even close. Scroll back up and find my links on this thread, and read them.

As for your statement on the Sun ~ I would only have to say that you should learn more about the Sun as well, and, its effects on a single human being. I think you'd notice if the Sun were not there Badeskov.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Theodore

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Theodore, instead of continuously being rude and insulting to those who disagree with your opinion (and who, incidentally are actually educated in REAL science) may I suggest that you do some research into what science actually is instead of using your disingenuous tactic of trying to redefine science to your liking. In sure you will find some very good beginners books in the library.

[Alara]

Theodore, instead of continuously being rude and insulting to those who disagree with your opinion (and who, incidentally are actually educated in REAL science) may I suggest that you do some research into what science actually is instead of using your disingenuous tactic of trying to redefine science to your liking. In sure you will find some very good beginners books in the library.

But Waspie don't you think Theodore is right when he says that Lilly and badeskov have been expressing their opinion on astrology without previously reading at least one book on the subject?

I think it's understandable why they have the opinions they have. Cos they themselves haven't taken the time to research what they are discussing.

I understand that Theodore seems harsh but nor Lilly or badeskov have expressed a will to read more about astrology yet they engage in this discussion. I assume you don't think astrology is a science, judging by your posts. And I'm not saying you're being unfair here but, do you think you'd take the same stand if you thought astrology was a science?

I'm not questioning your judgment here but I have a feeling you've been annoyed by the way Theodore addresses badeskov and Lilly but you close your eyes to the fact that they are discussing something they don't know anything about.

I understand why they have those opinions and I think they're both very endearing and nice people but I think that they should research what they are discussing and then come up with ideas and questions that are rooted in actual knowledge of astrology; not assumptions and guesses.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Alara

[Eagle Eye]

Theodore, instead of continuously being rude and insulting to those who disagree with your opinion (and who, incidentally are actually educated in REAL science) may I suggest that you do some research into what science actually is instead of using your disingenuous tactic of trying to redefine science to your liking. In sure you will find some very good beginners books in the library.

That is your assumption Waspie. You'll find I am plenty kind to those on this forum who are able to post questions, and their comments without their own snide, and very opinionated views on Astrology, as well as their egocentric assumptions on defining what "science" is and is not, while not noting that that is your opinion. That, my friend, is "disingenuous" - not a "tactic." I have taught many students, and clients, the workings of the science that Astology is, and as a professional, it is not my "opinion" ~ but my expertise, knowledge and experience that matters ~ that is the difference.

As for "beginning" ~ I suggest you use your own library card to access those books in the library, considering your assumptions and lack of definition of what "real science" is and is not. You have not "defined" real science, so how is it that I am "trying to redefine" it? How is that possible?

That is the "tactic" of some who, when corrected by a practicing professional of Astrology, then act out like children because their opinion is found to be incorrect. And, rather than exploring this possibility, whine, shout, and behave badly because it is easier to do that (be lazy) then it is to spend actual time discovering just what it is that they are talking about in the first place.

Opinions are not facts, nor are they substitutes for actual knowledge, experience, and practice in the field either. This is especially so when facing the omni-science of Astrology, and the historical facts of scientific inquiry.

What you will find is that most people who make silly statements on Astrology, just do not know what they are talking about. Not at all. I find it amusing as well that they seem to be even less aware that it is their own lack of interdisciplinary training and insight that stifles them to the point of being neutered intellectually.

It's as if their sense of "science" is boxed ~ seperated from all things like some pure boy in a bubble ~ disconnected from the cosmos, from nature itself as if somehow "outside" things while pronouncing to us all what is "science" and what is not.

I don't think so. That dog doesn't hunt.

Some of those touting the weak line that "astrology is not a science" haven't a clue as to what it is that they are talking about. Not a clue. And some don't like to be called on it. Well, I'm calling them on it. I know what I am talking about. And it's not my opinion either. That's the assumption some of you make. It is common among those who have not a clue about the subjects they pounce on ~ like Astrology ~ to do just that: make high & mighty statements like "astrology is not a science" ~ without even a distant clue as to what they are really talking about.

In all my postings I've never stated my opinions. You see, I am a master classical astrologer. A professional. Quite versed in several sciences and their practical applications as they relate to Astrology ~ this includes the workings of Nature ~ in the real world ~ not in the mind of some clueless person who believes astrology is reduced to what they read in a newspaper column. Yeah, right. You think that's Astrology? And then expect to be taken seriously as a scientist who then can tell all of us what real science is and is not? I don't think so.

My opinion does not matter whatsoever, and has no bearing on the transits of the Sun, Moon, planets and stars. What does matter is my knowledge, expertise, and application of astrological and mathematic principles. Cosmic laws. In effect, astrophysical to gepophysical. Causes and effects.

I suggest you take a step back and check out that your supposed "definition" of what "real science" is at issue here, not Astrology. Science is many things. But one thing it is not is your narrow use of the word. Science is about exploration, and discovery. You and some others make "science" sound like something that belongs only to a few, who then choose to determine what is "science" and what is not? I don't think so. That is egocentric, rude, ignorant, and just plain wrong.

So while you made this statement to me ~ "Theodore, instead of continuously being rude and insulting to those who disagree with your opinion (and who, incidentally are actually educated in REAL science) may I suggest that you do some research into what science actually is instead of using your disingenuous tactic of trying to redefine science to your liking. In sure you will find some very good beginners books in the library..." ~

I respectfully suggest Waspie, that you re-read your advice to me, take a look in a mirror, and deeply reconsider your own words to heart.

"A mind apt in knowledge will discover truth more readily than one practised in the highest branches of science." ~ Claudius Ptolemy.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Theodore