Make Europe Pay Us Tribute

[Mars]

Make Europe Pay Us Tribute

by Patrick J. Buchanan - February 23, 2007

The Brits are going home.

Forty thousand marched in beside the Americans. Only 7,100 remain; 1,600 will be heading home by Easter.

By August, the Danish force of 470 is to be withdrawn, as is the tiny Lithuanian unit. South Korea has 2,200 troops in the Kurdish north. Though they rarely leave base, 1,100 are to depart by August, the rest by year’s end.

The Italians are gone. The Spanish pulled out after the Madrid bombings. Ukraine’s 1,600 have departed. The Japanese have gone. Declaring the war “unjust and wrong,†Slovakia’s new prime minister just ordered home his country’s contingent of 110 engineers.

Only the Americans are going deeper in. Aussies excepted, the “coalition of the willing†is no longer willing.

In Afghanistan, Americans, Brits, Canadians and Dutch fight, as Germans, French and Italians do “reconstruction.†In World War I, France, Italy and Germany lost 4 million men. In Afghanistan and Iraq, the three together have probably not lost 50.

Prime Minister Romano Prodi resigned Wednesday, when his plan to stay in Afghanistan and enlarge a U.S. base in Italy, lest refusal be seen as “a hostile act toward the USA,†was rejected in the Italian Senate.

*see LINK for further information*

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May be Pat Buchanan has a point about this one.

Edited March 30, 2007 by Paranoid Android
added source, edited the quoted material

[truethat]

I don't really think that Europe considers these things as "threats" really. I mean if you think about it there hasn't ever been a time of full peace in Europe or nearby countries. Somebody is always fighting with someone.

The US had a sense of sorting it out with the Civil War in the US and so to the US it seems that we have to sort it out in the rest of the world as well.

These countries have had thousands of years to stop fighting. Bottom line? They don't want to and no amount of convincing from the US is going to make them.

This is why Europeans are not "on our side" because there is no side. Its like you live in neighborhood where people drag race all night and you want to put a stop to it. So you petition you write congressmen yadda yadda yadda. Then one night a five year old kid gets killed crossing the street and you think "AHA now this will motivate them"

But it won't. The only thing that motivates most of the world is personal interest. Its funny though how when they US goes after it, then it seems like a horrible thing. But everyone else does it no problem. But unless someone drag racing killed "THEIR KID" or unless the cars woke them up all night, these neighbors are not going to get involved. Look at Rwanda? You see the US over there apologizing for failing them but I think most of these other countries just sorta "tisk tisk what a dreadful situation"

I think it is the arrogance of the "hero" that annoys other parts of the world. This war for example actually has the cajones to call itself "Operation Iraqi Freedom" rather than "Operation get Saddam out and stake a piece of power out for us"

It is what it is. So why do we keep trying to pretend its about the freedom or the "principle of the thing'

If the US stopped caring so much what everyone thought, and stopped feeling guilty because we are the most powerful country right now at such a short time. We need to have a spine, not a soap box.

Europe doesn't "owe us" jack, we wouldn't have gone into any of the things we did if not for our interests.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee. We don't owe anyone any explanation. We need to do for ourselves, just like everyone else and stop pretending we are the civic hero who is out at 4 in the morning chasing down drag racers because all we are doing is making a lot more noise and acting like "king of the street"

Go home and be quiet. Stay out of other people's business and if you DO get involved admit you are the greedy little b****** you know you are.

I think we would have a lot less stress this way.

Edited March 19, 2007 by truethat

[NiCkC818]

I believe Europe does owe us after all the souls that were lost fighting their war. I would cash in on that debt now.

[Thozzman]

I read an article a few months ago that said the French were so angry with the US that they were considering digging up the graves of fallen US servicemen and throwing them into the ocean. Obviously a fringe element of the French population (i hope), but disturbing and disgusting nevertheless.

[NiCkC818]

Just radicals angry

[black dahlia 83]

I reckon truethat has totally hit the nail on the head.

The rest of the world has seen the Iraqi War for what it is an absolute freaking failure. It may have taken Tony Blair this long to get the guts to tell Bush that he's pulling out but at least he can see this mess for what it is. Unfortunately I cant say the same about John Howard or Bush.

Like truethat said, Europe has had centuries to work up bad blood and a list of grievances against each other a mile long. Its up to the US to keep their noses out of such things.

Who cares if countries want to get out of Iraq thats their decision, not America's.

I believe Europe does owe us after all the souls that were lost fighting their war. I would cash in on that debt now.

And this I'm not touching with a ten foot pole.

[NiCkC818]

I reckon truethat has totally hit the nail on the head.

The rest of the world has seen the Iraqi War for what it is an absolute freaking failure. It may have taken Tony Blair this long to get the guts to tell Bush that he's pulling out but at least he can see this mess for what it is. Unfortunately I cant say the same about John Howard or Bush.

Like truethat said, Europe has had centuries to work up bad blood and a list of grievances against each other a mile long. Its up to the US to keep their noses out of such things.

Who cares if countries want to get out of Iraq thats their decision, not America's.

And this I'm not touching with a ten foot pole.

Why? You know I am right..europeans had to go to war, and we intervened, yes for our interests as well, but you do not think that Britian, or any other european power has no vested interest in the outcome of the war in Iraq? You kid yourself if you think the answer is no.

[Thozzman]

I reckon truethat has totally hit the nail on the head.

The rest of the world has seen the Iraqi War for what it is an absolute freaking failure. It may have taken Tony Blair this long to get the guts to tell Bush that he's pulling out but at least he can see this mess for what it is. Unfortunately I cant say the same about John Howard or Bush.

Like truethat said, Europe has had centuries to work up bad blood and a list of grievances against each other a mile long. Its up to the US to keep their noses out of such things.

Who cares if countries want to get out of Iraq thats their decision, not America's.

Then they never should have agreed to it to begin with.

[black dahlia 83]

Why? You know I am right..europeans had to go to war, and we intervened, yes for our interests as well, but you do not think that Britian, or any other european power has no vested interest in the outcome of the war in Iraq? You kid yourself if you think the answer is no.

No I'm not going to deny that other countries may not have a vested interest. But the whole thing was doomed from the get go. Its just a shame that its taken this long for other countries to get out of Iraq and give it up as a bad joke. Bush wont give up until his personal vendetta or whatever the hell you want to call it is over. And it will be too late because way too many soldiers regardless of what country they fight for will be dead.

[black dahlia 83]

Then they never should have agreed to it to begin with.

No they shouldnt of. Noone should of gone to Iraq.

[truethat]

Why? You know I am right..europeans had to go to war, and we intervened, yes for our interests as well, but you do not think that Britian, or any other european power has no vested interest in the outcome of the war in Iraq? You kid yourself if you think the answer is no.

Yeah but we don't admit that its for our interests and theirin lies the problem. We pretend we are saving the Iraqis by bombing the stuffing out of their kids then dust off walk away and expect a pat on the back? More like a knife in the back.

We need to grow up.

[Mad Manfred]

Yes, I can see it now "Thank you America for pulling us into your war and getting dozens, if not hundreds, of our people killed while in the process making us look like warmongering arseholes".

Go liberate the Congo, Sudan or some other nation stricken with war and poverty and maybe you'll get some praise. Till then **** (America, not anyone in-particular)

[black dahlia 83]

Yes, I can see it now "Thank you America for pulling us into your war and getting dozens, if not hundreds, of our people killed while in the process making us look like warmongering arseholes".

Go liberate the Congo, Sudan or some other nation stricken with war and poverty and maybe you'll get some praise. Till then **** (America, not anyone in-particular)

Darn straight

[__Kratos__]

Yes, I can see it now "Thank you America for pulling us into your war and getting dozens, if not hundreds, of our people killed while in the process making us look like warmongering arseholes".

Go liberate the Congo, Sudan or some other nation stricken with war and poverty and maybe you'll get some praise. Till then **** (America, not anyone in-particular)

Afghanistan?

It's amazing how everybody went straight to Iraq on this one when really the NATO idea is in Afghanistan.

[RamboIII]

I read an article a few months ago that said the French were so angry with the US that they were considering digging up the graves of fallen US servicemen and throwing them into the ocean. Obviously a fringe element of the French population (i hope), but disturbing and disgusting nevertheless.

Wow, no wonder i hate the french so much. Wasn't it us who saved their beignet making buttocks' when they surrendured(spelling) in WWII??!??!

Edited March 20, 2007 by RamboIII

[Mad Manfred]

Afghanistan?

It's amazing how everybody went straight to Iraq on this one when really the NATO idea is in Afghanistan.

The US government didn't have benevolent intentions when they invaded Afghanistan. They weren't thinking of the people, they were thinking revenge. That doesn't mean the coalition hasn't done a lot of good for the country, though.

[telirium]

you know though, i'm kinda glad we are the world's "thorn" in everyone's side

Edited March 20, 2007 by telirium

[secondhand]

Wow, no wonder i hate the french so much. Wasn't it us who saved their beignet making buttocks' when they surrendured(spelling) in WWII??!??!

Erm, no, the US arsed about for a couple of years while Britain held off the Nazis in Europe pretty much single handedly.

And it wasn't "you", "me" or "us" that had anything to do with it, it was our grandfathers and great-grandfathers who were ten times the people we are.

Your comment is annoying at best, the British have had pretty much 1000 years of war with the French, yet I don't hate them, they're awesome. Go to France, learn a bit of the language and you'll find one of the friendliest people on Earth. Just don't do what many Americans I know have done, wandering around Paris in an I Heart USA cap, shouting about how everthing is cheaper and better "back home" and yelling about how ungrateful they are, before returning home and complaining about how "goddam arrogant" they are.

[Mars]

I read an article a few months ago that said the French were so angry with the US that they were considering digging up the graves of fallen US servicemen and throwing them into the ocean. Obviously a fringe element of the French population (i hope), but disturbing and disgusting nevertheless.

I'm going to guess that part of the population is dark-skinned and owns a quran

wandering around Paris in an I Heart USA cap, shouting about how everthing is cheaper and better "back home" and yelling about how ungrateful they are, before returning home and complaining about how "goddam arrogant" they are.

Well when I vacationed in another part of america there were some frenchies there ( actually a lot) that were very rude.

American tourist are in no way destroy France. To insult an american for wearing an "I Heart USA" shirt is pretty bad. I wouldn't insult someone in person wearing an "I love [fill in nation] " shirt. The french need to take on their large muslim population instead of throwing petty insults at tourist ROFL.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Mars

[Dr. Strangelove]

...

Europe is more than capable of defending herself. We(The US) will be the ones who'll be hurting.

Germany designs our Tanks(and a good deal of our armor in general), Britian trains our Navy Seals(The UK and alot of other countries are helping fund and design the F-35 project as well), oh, and how can we forget: Britian, Turkey, and France were kind enough to let us use their soil to place our nuclear missiles(thus, making themselves massive targets), during the Cold War.

[Talon]

Erm, no, the US arsed about for a couple of years while Britain held off the Nazis in Europe pretty much single handedly.

And it wasn't "you", "me" or "us" that had anything to do with it, it was our grandfathers and great-grandfathers who were ten times the people we are.

Your comment is annoying at best, the British have had pretty much 1000 years of war with the French, yet I don't hate them, they're awesome. Go to France, learn a bit of the language and you'll find one of the friendliest people on Earth. Just don't do what many Americans I know have done, wandering around Paris in an I Heart USA cap, shouting about how everthing is cheaper and better "back home" and yelling about how ungrateful they are, before returning home and complaining about how "goddam arrogant" they are.

I agree. There seems no shortage of Americans who come out with rubbish statements like this article, e.g. "In the early years of World Wars I and II, Europeans implored us to come save them from the Germans. We did."

Completely ignoring most Americans had no interest in coming to anyone aid, most Americans' were happy to see Hitler take over Europe, Africa and Asia so long as they didn't have to get involved. Only your President and a few others actively supported the sending of resources the UK.

The US insults the French because they lost to a superior army... so? It was a superior army of course they lost, but at least they were there from the start trying to defeat an Evil Empire while the US watched from across the ocean shrugging its shoulders because it wasn't their country which was being invaded by an evil force. France had the balls to be one of the first nations to stand up to Hitler, something the US wouldn't gain the courage to do until 3 years later.

Also annoying about the US version of history is the lack of the USSR's roll in the victory. The USSR... run by Stalin... not a nice place. However, fact is it was a Super Power which slaughtered millions of Axis troops and bogged down 35-odd divisions in the east, and thus meant the Allies in the west only had to fight 5 divisions come D-Day. Whether we liked the USSR does not does not stop the fact without them the war could have gone very differently - especially given some historians say Germany was only 5 months away from a nuke when the Red Army took Berlin (that’s the RED ARMY took Berlin, not the US like they claim in the movies).

And of that 'coming to save Europe', or 'the US fighting Europe's war' ; the US did not come heroically charging in for the rescue like the US's retelling of history says. The US was attacked by Japan, thus bringing it into a war. Furthermore, the US did not involve itself in Europe until Hitler declared war on them - again, making it very much their war. Had Japan not attacked the US, had Hitler not declared war against the US, they US would have sat back in blissful ignorance as the USSR defeated them both. Then the US would have had to fight a Cold War against a USSR which spanned the entire of Eurasia plus Africa... which would have meant the US could well have lost the Cold War.

Fact is, yes the US's resources won the war for the non-USSR Allies, if you hadn't come the USSR would have defeated the Nazis and occupied continental Europe. Yes the US's resources likely diverted German attention from the UK (although since we had already won the battle of Britain when you joined, it’s debatable, we may well have lasted until the USSR won the war). And all thanks to the US for helping us beat the Nazis

However, the US's arrogance and reworking of history is so annoying can you blame us for not showing graduate more often?! ;

1. The US claims personal victory over the Nazis, ignoring all the Allied members who played apart - particularly the UK and the USSR who were on the front lines.

2. The US, loves to tell us how it came to our aid out of the goodness of their hearts - ignoring that they sat back for 3 years and let the rest of the world fight against evil and only got involved after you were attacked. The US was one of the last Allied Nations to join up. In a football game, a player that turns up in the last minutes of play and scores a goal that helps win the game was the leading factor in victory, but it does not mean they won the game single-handily.

3. You insult the French – constantly – for being occupied. But considering the US had one of the smallest armies in the world at the start of WW2, trust me if you had had a border with Nazi Germany, you’d have been occupied too. For all you’re b*tching about needing to save people, you ignore the reason they were occupied was because they had the guts to be in the war from the start, something the US didn’t.

4. As the other poster points out – the current US didn’t save anyone in WW2, certainly not modern Europe. The US that fought in Europe was your grandparents 60 years ago, you have nothing to be thanked for, and the Europeans who you fought against or needed to save back then are several years’ dead. The French don’t come demanding you thank them for being your allies during your Wars of Independence (which you seem to forget the French helped you defeat Britain in), so don’t come to us and demand we thank you for something you didn’t even do.

5. The US relations with other countries seem not too advanced since the war. While the European nations which killing each other 60 years ago have joined together in peaceful union, the US is still talks about beating Germans, bombing ‘Japanese’, saving ‘Brits’ and ‘Frenchies’, mocking the ‘reds’ etc. Seriously it was 60 years ago, entire generations have come and gone, your summing up of your relationships with other countries does not have to be the same as the abbreviations your grandfathers would have made.

6. You never shut up about the war and how you saved Europe from the Nazis etc etc - nobody likes a bad winner.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Talon

[__Kratos__]

1. The US claims personal victory over the Nazis, ignoring all the Allied members who played apart - particularly the UK and the USSR who were on the front lines.

Well I have my history book out in front of me and it's clearly showing the USSR advancements against Berlin and clearly talking about their role in ww2 as well as all the other allies.

2. The US, loves to tell us how it came to our aid out of the goodness of their hearts - ignoring that they sat back for 3 years and let the rest of the world fight against evil and only got involved after you were attacked. The US was one of the last Allied Nations to join up. In a football game, a player that turns up in the last minutes of play and scores a goal that helps win the game was the leading factor in victory, but it does not mean they won the game single-handily.

I don't hear too many people say that the US went in swinging and knocked Germany out by themselves. Not even in history books. Even in this book it's clearly listing that the allies were clearly part of it including the USSR. Even here on this page saying that the USSR was ahead of the allies that then met with the other forces then the USSR invaded Berlin.

3. You insult the French – constantly – for being occupied. But considering the US had one of the smallest armies in the world at the start of WW2, trust me if you had had a border with Nazi Germany, you’d have been occupied too. For all you’re b*tching about needing to save people, you ignore the reason they were occupied was because they had the guts to be in the war from the start, something the US didn’t.

Guts? They didn't have much of a choice now did they. From what I understand the quick jokes about them stems from them surrendering Paris without a fight.

4. As the other poster points out – the current US didn’t save anyone in WW2, certainly not modern Europe. The US that fought in Europe was your grandparents 60 years ago, you have nothing to be thanked for, and the Europeans who you fought against or needed to save back then are several years’ dead. The French don’t come demanding you thank them for being your allies during your Wars of Independence (which you seem to forget the French helped you defeat Britain in), so don’t come to us and demand we thank you for something you didn’t even do.

You're right, the children of those who fought didn't do anything. Though again I don't see very many people wanting a thanks for something they didn't do.

5. The US relations with other countries seem not too advanced since the war. While the European nations which killing each other 60 years ago have joined together in peaceful union, the US is still talks about beating Germans, bombing ‘Japanese’, saving ‘Brits’ and ‘Frenchies’, mocking the ‘reds’ etc. Seriously it was 60 years ago, entire generations have come and gone, your summing up of your relationships with other countries does not have to be the same as the abbreviations your grandfathers would have made.

6. You never shut up about the war and how you saved Europe from the Nazis etc etc - nobody likes a bad winner.

Well I do think relations have come a long way since 60 years ago. Honestly, I haven't heard anything about the Germans, Japanese, brits or Frenchies or even the reds in the news at all really. I think the last reference to WW2 in the US media was when one of the dimwits in the government compared somewhat to the fight on terror to the nazi fight.

All it seems like you're doing it sterotyping all Americans based on a very few.

Edited March 20, 2007 by __Kratos__

[m. Moe]

Wow, no wonder i hate the french so much. Wasn't it us who saved their beignet making buttocks' when they surrendured(spelling) in WWII??!??!

You can not say it was the US that "saved their beignet making buttocks" because the US was not in the war during the fall of France and did not join because of it.

[SilverCougar]

If anything... we owe the world.

[AROCES]

Erm, no, the US arsed about for a couple of years while Britain held off the Nazis in Europe pretty much single handedly.

Huh? Where? When? How?