Iran 'seizes' 15 British Marines

[Mugen]

wow you are clearly mis informed

that 655,000 Iraqis are TERRORISTS, people who kill other people because of there religion,race and/or creed

also if the U.S was intrested in the oil fields than our oil prices wouldnt be so god dam high!

what you forget is that what the United States did was Remove a Dictator and help trim down the Terroist population down that iraqi Al queda Opretive could have been the guy who bombs the building you were going to be at

Lol from where did you get this? I heard some studies told that there have been 650, 000 dead CIVILIANS, but I didnt remember them ALL being so called terrorists.

[demonhuntergeneral]

I had a feeling from the beginning that the Brits were lying. It's just sad that we can't trust our Governments even with an issue as important as War.

And where is the evidence that the British are lying or is that just your so called opinion? Well in my opinion you are just anti anything, as long as its controversial and it p***es people off!(something your good at) And actually i think you are enjoying the events in Iran because it gives you something to get on the governments case about.

just my opinion of coarse.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Geordie Don

[Mr Slayer]

In this case, I'd rather believe Iran, because the British are the most one's likely to lie (about not being on Iranian waters), since West really needs an excuse to dive into the country at the moment (the nuclear aspect).

[demonhuntergeneral]

In this case, I'd rather believe Iran, because the British are the most one's likely to lie (about not being on Iranian waters), since West really needs an excuse to dive into the country at the moment (the nuclear aspect).

Oh well thats that sorted! The british are lying because you think they are.. conspiracy after conspiracy isnt it? If we were that keen in diving in as you say, wouldnt we have done it by now?.. Havent Iran given us a great excuse to do so? Why dont they just release the the hostages instead of parading them on TV p***ing off the British nation. So my question is who really wants this war? because to me its Iran who is doing all the baiting and goading.

[Mr Slayer]

Oh well thats that sorted! The british are lying because you think they are.. conspiracy after conspiracy isnt it? If we were that keen in diving in as you say, wouldnt we have done it by now?.. Havent Iran given us a great excuse to do so? Why dont they just release the the hostages instead of parading them on TV p***ing off the British nation. So my question is who really wants this war? because to me its Iran who is doing all the baiting and goading.

No, not just because I said so but because I learn from history.

Earlier in the thread I drew a parallel to the mexican war of the late 1800s, where US claimed that the Mexicans attacked their troops when actually the US had crossed the border and provoked an attack (and denied it later). I see similarities in this political game. (Yet I'm not saying I'm wrong).

Of course Iran is trying to humiliate the prisoners and their nation - they are apparently primitive.

What they should do is release the prisoners so that West doesn't get a further reason to invade. Again.

[Unlimited]

Of course Iran is trying to humiliate the prisoners and their nation - they are apparently primitive.

What they should do is release the prisoners so that West doesn't get a further reason to invade. Again.

what if Iran wants them to invade?........

[Mad Manfred]

Primitive. Heh. They're what, the second most powerful nation in the middle-east?

[Cinders]

I am working to upload the bits of video I caught on BBC News with the barbaric riots that recently took place outside the British Embassy in Iran.

It coincides with the news article I posted yesterday...

This area where the BRITISH MARINES were abducted by the Iranians is clearly in dispute. I've seen other maps showing them way out in the sea area (like the one Mugen posted up), other maps I've seen now showing them in that area that divides Iraq and Iran...

Click Here to see one of the two British Marines that were shown on Iran TV recently. In total now, there have been 5 seen on TV.

The more I see of this news and how it is all being handled, it is very CLEAR this is all used for propaganda purposes- period -- Maybe all for the sake of Ahmadinejad. Earlier, many citizens of Iran were quite unhappy with him as he made many promises to his people that have not come through and / or the NUKE situation might be the other distraction for all this.

I hope to upload the news video on this soon. The way they act in this riot reminds me of the riots that took place all for some CARTOON. Death and destruction all because of cartoons!!

Edited April 2, 2007 by Cinders

[Aztec Warrior]

I had a feeling from the beginning that the Brits were lying. It's just sad that we can't trust our Governments even with an issue as important as War.

And exactly what are the British lying about? Even if they purposely strayed into Iranian waters, does that equal kidnapping. Now, if the British had landed on Iranian land....at night...and tried to sneak in as spies........you might have something. But nobody says that happened.

Iran is so hypocritical

they keep saying that there a peaceful people , but they try to provoke the U.S. and its allies and by kidnapping British forces and telling them to "Claim error" when there was no error at gun point

that Iranian president is the new antichrist

Hmm.....antichrist........that thought occured to me as well. Many parallels.....ie. bring about the apocalypse.

In this case, I'd rather believe Iran, because the British are the most one's likely to lie (about not being on Iranian waters), since West really needs an excuse to dive into the country at the moment (the nuclear aspect).

The British don't need their soldiers to be kidnapped for an excuse. And what are the British lying about? Why do you leftist want to support some backward nation with a dismal human rights record and a HISTORY of kidnapping other nations people is beyond me. Jeeze..........this is like the third time they have done this.

Oh, silly me I forgot............it's all George Bush's fault.

No, not just because I said so but because I learn from history.

Earlier in the thread I drew a parallel to the mexican war of the late 1800s, where US claimed that the Mexicans attacked their troops when actually the US had crossed the border and provoked an attack (and denied it later). I see similarities in this political game. (Yet I'm not saying I'm wrong).

Of course Iran is trying to humiliate the prisoners and their nation - they are apparently primitive.

What they should do is release the prisoners so that West doesn't get a further reason to invade. Again.

Exactly, release the hostages...................hmm...that sounds familiar.

Primitive. Heh. They're what, the second most powerful nation in the middle-east?

They are a superpower.....and don't you forget it.

I am working to upload the bits of video I caught on BBC News with the barbaric riots that recently took place outside the British Embassy in Iran.

It coincides with the news article I posted yesterday...

This area where the BRITISH MARINES were abducted by the Iranians is clearly in dispute. I've seen other maps showing them way out in the sea area (like the one Mugen posted up), other maps I've seen now showing them in that area that divides Iraq and Iran...

Click Here to see one of the two British Marines that were shown on Iran TV recently. In total now, there have been 5 seen on TV.

The more I see of this news and how it is all being handled, it is very CLEAR this is all used for propaganda purposes- period -- Maybe all for the sake of Ahmadinejad. Earlier, many citizens of Iran were quite unhappy with him as he made many promises to his people that have not come through and / or the NUKE situation might be the other distraction for all this.

I hope to upload the news video on this soon. The way they act in this riot reminds me of the riots that took place all for some CARTOON. Death and destruction all because of cartoons!!

Someone mentioned primitive...............uncivilized would be my thought.

[secondhand]

The Army/SAS will probably drive a tank through the wall when they find out their location. It worked before, and it was an awesome operation.

Link

I was sympathetic to the Iranians before they resorted to idiocy. This is going to end with a lot of people being killed.

[Princess Serenity]

They have former Iranian hostages speaking out. And how they're doing this infront of the camera. How they're being treated well & eatting food. And once the camera disappears, the good & everything else disappears. -_-'

Just give them back already! I'm sick of hearing about it.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

In this case, I'd rather believe Iran, because the British are the most one's likely to lie (about not being on Iranian waters), since West really needs an excuse to dive into the country at the moment (the nuclear aspect).

Wow. I guess Iran never does anything wrong. Give me a break.

[RamboIII]

Primitive. Heh. They're what, the second most powerful nation in the middle-east?

Now this is humor at its finest... the Middle East is one of the most useless place in the world disregarding their oil reserves. Even the most powerful nation in the middle-east is nothing compared to half the countries in Europe... saying its the second most powerful nation is similar to congratulate someone on winning second place in a race with two people.

[Stellar]

I heard some studies told that there have been 650, 000 dead CIVILIANS, but I didnt remember them ALL being so called terrorists.

In any case, what's the greater killer in Iraq? US munitions, or IEDs and suicide bombs? Every couple of days I hear of a suicide bomber killing 50-100 people at some market...

[Cinders]

I combined 3 BBC News video bits of what we've seen here on US TV.

Total video is about 19 minutes long.

First part from Friday, March 30 2007 (breaking news at the time) showing 3 of the British Marines on Iranian TV (about 11.5 minutes long)

Second video bit is from Sunday, April 1, 2007 showing 2 OTHER British Marines on Iranian TV. This portion of video ALSO shows the BARBARIC RIOTS that took place in front of the British Embassy in Iran.

And this RIOT doesn't look like this was some sort of April Fool's Joke either!!

(about 5 minutes long)

Third part is from today, Monday, April 2, 2007 an update on the recent situation (2.5 minutes long)

You can watch this 19 minute video ONLINE HERE

This is a perfect example of "IRANIAN PROPAGANDA!"

prop·a·gan·da :

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/propaganda

RELEASE the 15 British Marines NOW!

Edited April 2, 2007 by Cinders

[Spurious George]

In my opinion the Iranians captured these soldiers to prove a point, that all the tough talk is just that talk. The West is in no position to attack Iran and they know it and Iran knows it, Iran just wanted to show the world that they knew it. Iran will continue to be belligerent until they feel they have sufficiently brought the UK's tough talk down and have called the bluff. The bluff being the main reason Bush stayed so quiet on this one, he doesnt want to talk tough, then do nothing and lose face. This whole crisis could prove to be a positive turn of events, if this ends with no bombs dropping and the soldiers released the tension will drop a dozen notches or so because if an attack on Iran just needed a good excuse but no war came after a good excuse was given, war doesnt look so close anymore and gas prices might go down lol.

Of course if this is all just Iran being intentionally belligerent to call a bluff I see no reason why they wouldnt take it one step further and grab these soldiers out of Iraqi waters. Of course the definition of "disputed" waters still means the same thing to me.

[Birmingham]

Mugen, I was looking at the map you supplied. I was looking at the video today, of the Royal Marine pointing at a map on TV. I also saw the map in the background when the female sailer was shown on Iranian TV. And all three of the maps have differnent lines of demarcation. In otherwords, the Iranian Government does not even know where their own boundrys at sea are.

For a map and chart lover, it is fun to live only a couple of hundred miles from a library in a major port. Where you can go thru the maritime chart collection. And a few years ago, I was turning over the charts in their flat drawers. And my attention was attracted by a strange map of the Persian Gulf. It was an official chart of the north end of the Gulf issued by the Iranian Government. In Farzi and English (not in Arabic, I guess it was thought that Arab speakers were not worth the effort, even when it was directed twords then). Where it showed the line of demarcation between Iran and Kuwait/Iraq borders running right up to high tide on the Iraqi and Kuwaiti beaches. In other words, Iran was claiming the whole Persian Gulf as Iranian terratorial waters. And all of the Shatt al_Arab river. With Iraq and Kuwait having no right of access to the waters of the Gulf what so ever. So if anyone was on a Kuwaiti beach, and stuck their toe in the water, they were in waters Iran claimed as their own. And everyone is tresspassing and intruding in on Iranian seas if they are motoring in the Gulf at all.

I will try to get back to this library within the next couple of weeks. And see if it can be printed off or reproduced. If it can, I will post it here.

[Mr Slayer]

And exactly what are the British lying about? Even if they purposely strayed into Iranian waters, does that equal kidnapping. Now, if the British had landed on Iranian land....at night...and tried to sneak in as spies........you might have something. But nobody says that happened.

First off, I'm not defending the kidnappings in any way (read my post).

Second, I don't think the Britons would ask first and invite to tea and cookies later if they had Iranian troopers running around on their territory; this was the logical course of action. I'm not saying legit or clever, but definatly logical.

The British don't need their soldiers to be kidnapped for an excuse. And what are the British lying about?

I don't see how else they will get close if not by the good ole´ trick of provocation.

I think they are lying about not being on Iranian waters.

Why do you leftist want to support some backward nation with a dismal human rights record and a HISTORY of kidnapping other nations people is beyond me. Jeeze..........this is like the third time they have done this.

Oh, sheesh, here we go again. Everybody is "leftist" because they don't agree with you.

I am not in any way supporting Iran, on the contrary. I am merely pointing out the fact that everybody automatically thinks the British are being sincere, which is ridiculous. If being leftist is to point out certain aspects, being analytical and critical, then I guess I'm a leftist.

Someone mentioned primitive...............uncivilized would be my thought.

Fair enough.

Wow. I guess Iran never does anything wrong. Give me a break.

I see you chose not to read the part where I bash Iran.

Edited April 2, 2007 by AshKatNah

[Bill Hill]

Oh, sheesh, here we go again. Everybody is "leftist" because they don't agree with you.

I am not in any way supporting Iran, on the contrary. I am merely pointing out the fact that everybody automatically thinks the British are being sincere, which is ridiculous. If being leftist is to point out certain aspects, being analytical and critical, then I guess I'm a leftist.

Actually you said-

In this case, I'd rather believe Iran, because the British are the most one's likely to lie (about not being on Iranian waters), since West really needs an excuse to dive into the country at the moment (the nuclear aspect).

Hardly critical thinking- more like it's a biased opinion based on faith.

[Stardrive]

they keep saying that there a peaceful people , but they try to provoke the U.S. and its allies and by kidnapping British forces and telling them to "Claim error" when there was no error at gun point

that Iranian president is the new antichrist

Funny you mentioned that. I was visiting my mom sunday and she pointed out that everytime the iranian president said anything he made a gesture waving his hand over head and then left and right shoulder. Like the trinity thing catholics do. She believes him to be the antichrist because of this and wanting to start armeggedon to bring about the muslim version of the messiah.

[Mugen]

Mugen, I was looking at the map you supplied. I was looking at the video today, of the Royal Marine pointing at a map on TV. I also saw the map in the background when the female sailer was shown on Iranian TV. And all three of the maps have differnent lines of demarcation. In otherwords, the Iranian Government does not even know where their own boundrys at sea are.

For a map and chart lover, it is fun to live only a couple of hundred miles from a library in a major port. Where you can go thru the maritime chart collection. And a few years ago, I was turning over the charts in their flat drawers. And my attention was attracted by a strange map of the Persian Gulf. It was an official chart of the north end of the Gulf issued by the Iranian Government. In Farzi and English (not in Arabic, I guess it was thought that Arab speakers were not worth the effort, even when it was directed twords then). Where it showed the line of demarcation between Iran and Kuwait/Iraq borders running right up to high tide on the Iraqi and Kuwaiti beaches. In other words, Iran was claiming the whole Persian Gulf as Iranian terratorial waters. And all of the Shatt al_Arab river. With Iraq and Kuwait having no right of access to the waters of the Gulf what so ever. So if anyone was on a Kuwaiti beach, and stuck their toe in the water, they were in waters Iran claimed as their own. And everyone is tresspassing and intruding in on Iranian seas if they are motoring in the Gulf at all.

I will try to get back to this library within the next couple of weeks. And see if it can be printed off or reproduced. If it can, I will post it here.

Yea i dont understand the maps either now.

The newest maps by iran with sailor standing in front of the map show that they were in the "river". but the other maps like the one i had link up there, shows that they are further away in the persian gulf. its very weird..,.

[Cinders]

I combined 3 BBC News video bits of what we've seen here on US TV.

Total video is about 19 minutes long.

First part from Friday, March 30 2007 (breaking news at the time) showing 3 of the British Marines on Iranian TV (about 11.5 minutes long)

Second video bit is from Sunday, April 1, 2007 showing 2 OTHER British Marines on Iranian TV. This portion of video ALSO shows the BARBARIC RIOTS that took place in front of the British Embassy in Iran.

And this RIOT doesn't look like this was some sort of April Fool's Joke either!!

(about 5 minutes long)

Third part is from today, Monday, April 2, 2007 an update on the recent situation (2.5 minutes long)

You can watch this 19 minute video ONLINE HERE

This is a perfect example of "IRANIAN PROPAGANDA!"

prop·a·gan·da :

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/propaganda

RELEASE the 15 British Marines NOW!

Ok.. I just checked the Mosaic Video News reports .. (again I start gritting my teeth in anger listening to this! )

Mosaic News is national broadcasters throughout the Middle East and is translated to English.

You can WATCH THIS ONLINE HERE for free, but Quicktime is required.

If you can't get it to load, let me know and I will upload this report on DailyMotion. Or upload this on Sendspace so you can download it (78 megs) .

It is in MP4 format which will play with VLC or Media Player Classic or Quicktime players.

But COMPARE Iran's News broadcast to what we hear and see on the BBC News Broadcast.

This Iranian NEWS is just unbelievable! How NOW they won't release the Female British Marine because of the BAD ATTITUDE OF THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT! WTH?!?!?

And because --(QUOTE from the bit of video) : "The UK is trying to achieve their goals by stirring up the media... and turning the truth around..using politcal pressure rather than addressing the issue in a legal way.." AGAIN WTH?!?!

Pfff! Yea,, and I am so looking forward to what Mosaic News will have posted there tomorrow.. *being sarcastic*

This is NUTS!

Dear UK, just APOLOGIZE by saying "We're sorry your so stupid and tripped up with BS!

Sooo get over yourselves Iran and GET A GRIP AND RELEASE THE 15 MARINES NOW!"

Edited April 3, 2007 by Cinders

[Birmingham]

Yea i dont understand the maps either now.

The newest maps by iran with sailor standing in front of the map show that they were in the "river". but the other maps like the one i had link up there, shows that they are further away in the persian gulf. its very weird..,.

I agree Mugen. It is weird that the Iranian maps shown on TV do not match each other. Normally a country is very carefull when their national boundrys are placed on a map. Specially on maps directly issued by the government.

Of course to me, it lessens the idea that the Iranians knew exactly where the British personel were.

Again I would like to point out that we are dealing with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. And not the regular Iranian Navy. As I compared before - The R.G. is like the Waffen SS formed by Himler's SS in WW-II. Serving as the private army of the Nazi Party. And independant of the normal chain of command of the German Army. With the R.G. being the private Army, Navy and Airforce of the Iranian hardliners.

And I think that even Mugen will agree that the Revolutionary Guards can and have been "loose cannons". And will act as directed by their own leadership. Without consultation with the rest of of the Iranian Government. And that they could have their own view on what is or is not the Iranian borders. The R.G. may truely think that the entire Persian Gulf is their own lake. No matter what international borders and law have to say.

And if the R.G. has a veto over the release of the Brits, then buy a lot of popcorn, because this could take a while before the R.G. is taken down a peg or two by the moderates. Or until the hardliners have wrung out everything they can from the crissis.

[Cinders]

Yea i dont understand the maps either now.

The newest maps by iran with sailor standing in front of the map show that they were in the "river". but the other maps like the one i had link up there, shows that they are further away in the persian gulf. its very weird..,.

Ok.. so you DO recognize that area as a "river" area as I do.. (I wasn't sure what you would call it there...)

This bit as seen from a few snapshots taken from the video of the UK Marine on Iranian News via BBC HERE

You must understand why all the frustration from my point of view .. trying to find out the TRUTH and all.

Even the bit of news I watched broadcast from out of Al-Alam TV, Iran VIA Mosaic seems to show such slight manipulations of where they actually were at the time they were taken by the RG's.

It chaps my hide.. they said they were going to release at least the FEMALE Marine.. but now their not??

Ever heard of that term: "Indian Giver" ? Meaning one who gives a gift but later takes it back.

Hmmm, the news video on the Mosaic link I posted earlier from March 30, 2007 , as well as text I read on BBC -- I NOW realize that :

Iran releases new 'Turney letter'

Iran has released a second letter apparently written by the only female member of the 15-strong Royal Navy crew it captured in the Gulf.

The letter, apparently signed by Leading Seaman Faye Turney, says she is being treated "well and humanely".

It adds: "Isn't it time for us to start withdrawing our forces from Iraq and let them determine their own future?"

The ABOVE BOLDED & UNDERLINED IS A BIG CLUE!

It is just one of many TRUE REASONS why the UK Marines are HELD HOSTAGE and being exploited like this.

Link to full story here on BBC

However there is a difference between what the News on Mosaic says, and what BBC says.

Mosaic says it is a THIRD letter from Turney, the female Marine, but BBC says it is a SECOND letter written from her.

but the IRAQ mention in her letter is the same.

This has all been a cat n' mouse game for the world to see.. but now it has turned into a nightmare..

Mugen, I can't stand Bush, and I am mad as h3ll for Blair kissing Bushs' bum all along... and I cringe at the sight of your president's "Alice In Wonderland Cheshire cat mischievous evil smile".... He is NO better than BUSH. And Bush is no better than Ahmadinejad.

Mugen, if a nobody like me from so far away cares about what is going on - and I seek the truth and I hope and pray for PEACE in all this... I guess I just hope you feel the same way too. After all, you started this topic / thread.. you must care as I do.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Cinders

[Cinders]

More update...on this situation..

I combined TWO video news reports today and uploaded on DailyMotion and as follows:

The first 3 minutes of this video is news from out of Dubai, TV, Dubai, UAE

from March 2nd 2007 via MOSAIC

One comment heard from a Rioter with some sort of dish towel around his neck says :

" ..We are willing to Martyr ourselves so that the world does not become UNIPOLAR "

WTF?!?!

Anyway, to watch more news from MOSAIC for this day visit here:

(Quicktime is required)

http://www.linktv.org/mosaic/streamsArchiv...e_date=20070402

Then the following video is a report from BBC News, April 03, 2007 (3.5 minutes long)

See related article to this portion of the video here:

Iran talks critical, says Blair

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6520571.stm

You can watch these 2 reports together HERE on DailyMotion:

More News on the UK Marines in Iran

Enough of this stupid game!

RELEASE THE 15 UK MARINES NOW!!!

Edited April 3, 2007 by Cinders