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Mugen

Iran 'seizes' 15 British Marines

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Aztec Warrior
these marines will not be released...it was a calculated effort to grab them and play this game....I wouldnt doubt if they were imprisoned for years..

If it was calculated to give Iran leverage.....................then they won't be going home soon. And Iran is betting it won't be attacked. And if they are, the UK still won't get their soldiers back.

If I were Britian.....or Blair I would say anything. I'd say...."we are very sorry, strayed into your waters......won't ever happen again." Get the hostages back.

After they safe return of the soldiers you simple say..............."we lied and we are not sorry. " And then............

linked-image

Edited by Aztec Warrior

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Cinders

My day just starting.. I go to Google news and see this headline:

Explosives rock British embassy in Tehran

Iranian protestors shout "Death to Britain", hurl stones and home-made explosive devices at embassy; no one hurt

Reuters

Published: 04.01.07, 16:44

Read FULL STORY HERE

Reading this really boils my blood!!! ... WTH?? Is any one over there CIVILIZED for fricks sakes?!

Wait! hmmmm.. maybe I am being a bit harsh.. after all their government controls their internet access, their freedoms, the news they see and hear on TV.. and more.

It's just very hard for me to understand or except this sort of behaviour..

Maybe it's also something else.. so naturally one tries to seek & understand like on this website here: CIA - The World Factbook - Iran

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Unlimited

the government could have stopped the protest..they wanted it.....

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Birmingham
the government could have stopped the protest..they wanted it.....

The Iranian government will not stop the demostrations. They are playing this like a violin for everything they can get out of it. Just a repeat of the American embassy hostage crissis. Back then if it was not a demonstration, it was parading the hostages on TV. Or another "confession". The world might as well get use to it again.

Been reading the BBCs forum (and other news sites) where the British people can post their openion of the situation. Labour and the Blair administration are taking a lot of hits. From not moving fast enough to letting the British military draw down to the point that Britain does not have the power to do anything militarally anymore, without having to call on the Americans. The longer this goes, the more at risk the Labour Party becomes.

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President-Elect Acidhead
Reading this really boils my blood!!! ... WTH?? Is any one over there CIVILIZED for fricks sakes?!

Wait! hmmmm.. maybe I am being a bit harsh.. after all their government controls their internet access, their freedoms, the news they see and hear on TV.. and more.

It's just very hard for me to understand or except this sort of behaviour..

[/url]

Yeah its real hard to understand what makes ordinary people speak out and act paranoid..

Gee.. kinda makes ya wonder if the Iranian people feel the pressure of the American military machine that has been gathering for months and is waiting for them just outside their door.

Edited by acidhead43

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Caesar
If it was calculated to give Iran leverage.....................then they won't be going home soon. And Iran is betting it won't be attacked. And if they are, the UK still won't get their soldiers back.

If I were Britian.....or Blair I would say anything. I'd say...."we are very sorry, strayed into your waters......won't ever happen again." Get the hostages back.

After they safe return of the soldiers you simple say..............."we lied and we are not sorry. " And then............

I agree the whole reason behind the hostages was for leverage, he needs reasons to show his people why he thinks the US and Britian are the agressors and he knows the American people are split

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Mugen

Ok, lets stop this "bombs away" nonsense.

USA&England a few months backward changed all the maritime maps and redraw the borders at the sea. They magically took iranian waters and now say that its iraqi waters.

But they made another mistake.

AS you can see IRAN is closer to the incident place than Iraq. (the RED dot is the british/usa version of the incident place)

linked-image

RED line is the old border but the new british/usa map still puts their map location on Irans side according to maritime laws.

Something to read:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...+map/article.do

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Stellar
RED line is the old border but the new british/usa map still puts their map location on Irans side according to maritime laws.

What? WHat are you talking about? What is your source for saying that it puts them inside Iranian waters according to maritime laws?

By that token, Iran is more guilty of creating an international incident based on unagreed borders... And in that case, I'd still side with the British for the very simple fact that they split it in half, whereas Iran "claims" as much as it can get.

Who's being unreasonable, I ask you.

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Bill Hill

C'mon Iran.. give em back... a joke's a joke but it's getting too long now.

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Bill Hill
Ok, lets stop this "bombs away" nonsense.

USA&England a few months backward changed all the maritime maps and redraw the borders at the sea. They magically took iranian waters and now say that its iraqi waters.

But they made another mistake.

AS you can see IRAN is closer to the incident place than Iraq. (the RED dot is the british/usa version of the incident place)

RED line is the old border but the new british/usa map still puts their map location on Irans side according to maritime laws.

Something to read:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...+map/article.do

Very interesting link Mugen, although it kinda makes your post null and void -

It's not surprising Iraq backed British claims - the map is favourable to them. But it makes compromise on the captives very difficult.

Of course, the Iranians equally cannot say unilaterally that these are their territorial waters, and act as if they owned them.

In disputed waters it behoves everyone to act with caution and respect. Plainly the Iranians are not doing that.

None of this vindicates Iran's aggressive behaviour in holding the captives or the so-called confessions.

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Cinders
Ok, lets stop this "bombs away" nonsense.

USA&England a few months backward changed all the maritime maps and redraw the borders at the sea. They magically took iranian waters and now say that its iraqi waters.

But they made another mistake.

AS you can see IRAN is closer to the incident place than Iraq. (the RED dot is the british/usa version of the incident place)

linked-image

RED line is the old border but the new british/usa map still puts their map location on Irans side according to maritime laws.

Something to read:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...+map/article.do

Mugen, I thank you for this .. especially coming from you.. I really do. I appreciate this.

Mugen, there hopefully is JUST a misunderstanding... I really pray that is all it is.. but what I am reading in headlines, like the one I posted about in my earlier post above ^^ the article is saying this:

"British, British, death to you, death to you," some of the demonstrators chanted, as some hurled stones at the embassy. One witness saw a small scuffle between police and some of the protestors. Some of the protestors also chanted "Death to America". hello Iran! :td: this is VERY BAD BEHAVIOUR!

THIS p***ES ME OFF!! .. JEEZ this kinda' RANT from any country is fricken BS! That is barbaric BS and I can't believe we are now in the 21st CENTURY!!!!!!!!

... how the h3ll does one ever ever move on and forward peacefully in a small world that we ALL MUST SHARE with this sort of BULL sh**??

No way will I ever ever ever chant or tolerate to hear such chants from where I live here in Oregon. :gun:

Although now... there was some BS that went on here in Downtown, Portland, ORegon on March 18 2007 that caught the eye of National News. BUT THAT WAS NOT WHAT THE MARCH was about! .. (someone on this forum posted about that and it was incorrect on how it was presented! Now the thread is closed! )

Portland Oregon marchers do this every year now and the MARCH is FOR PEACE NOT WAR! .. and they DO HAVE HIGH RESPECT for our soliders. The person who made a thread about the idiots that sort of tried to highjack the peaceful march were nutjobs saying hateful things about our Soldiers, Bush and God.

I don't give a rat's patooty if they got a rift with the US Flag or Bush, but when it comes to our US soldiers that crosses the line with me...BIG TIME.

READ & Watch the Video on this here from our Local TV channel : KATU News This march is done every year.. every year these people want PEACE not war.. but they DO respect and care about our soldiers UNLIKE what the person on this forum made it out like and what Fox News made it out like.

THIS is what I am about.. I AM FOR PEACE NOT WAR just like this march was. I can't stand my president for lying to us and to the world about IRAQ and I recognize that as many of us do. But I have admiration and high respect for our soldiers.

I just hope the rioters that pulled the crap they did today in Iran as shown in the news link I posted earlier in this thread is NOT what MANY think like over there.. ya' know??

Edited by Cinders

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Bill Hill

Yep, there certainly aren’t any protests from the US or UK people saying they hate the Iranian people. I think most people here are just frustrated with the Iranian Government.

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Nietze

Iran probably got nervous seeing the british there . Last time they had any dealings with the british sneaking around their country ,they went and staged a coup along with the americans to overthrow Mossadegh after he thought maybe Iran ought to profit somewhat from it's own oil, rather than the british aka the anglo iranian oil company. Of course, the USA easily convinced by the british that communist activities were at work and the then thereafter subsequent share of oil supply and profit for themselves , duly obliged and overthrew him* . You see a link here with control of oil and blaming something or someone as a front to exercising that control ? I guess they see the old masters of empire at work again, with their pupils, les enfant terribles usa again along with them. And after iraq, who can blame them .

* They failed first time but succeeded on the second , in case someone was to post the initial attempt operation ajax failed without further recourse to subsequent events.

Edited by Nietze

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Cinders
Iran probably got nervous seeing the british there . Last time they had any dealings with the british they went and staged a coup along with the americans to overthrow Mossadegh after he thought maybe Iran ought to profit somewhat from it's own oil, rather than the british aka the anglo iranian oil company. Of course, the USA easily convinced by the british that communist activities were at work, overthrew him . You see a link here with control of oil and blaming something or someone as a front to exercising that control. I guess they see the old masters at work again, with their pupils, les enfants terribles usa again along with them. And after iraq, who can blame them .

wow.. your post reminds me of a bit of a video we have called "Why We Fight"

I uploaded a bit of the video here called: "Blowback" and Saddam Hussein (and this vid snippet does relate to Iran and the British and US)

I do hope Mugen shows me the other side of things..... like I tried to explain the TRUE other side of what the Peace March in Portland, Oregon was all really about. (unlike what FOX NEWS tried to portray)

I can NOT depend on news media anymore.. really ie : Fox and the likes...

Nowadays, we ALL have to really research things before we make a decision, before we cast our vote etc...

Edited by Cinders

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Fluffybunny
Yep, there certainly aren’t any protests from the US or UK people saying they hate the Iranian people. I think most people here are just frustrated with the Iranian Government.

Yep, there certainly aren’t any protests from the US or UK people saying they hate the Iranian people. I think most people here are just frustrated with the Iranian Government.

Yes that is true; even the most rednecked folks in my area don't hate "iranians" for the sake that they are iranians, but rather hate the leadership which is obviously insane and looking for war. From the outside it looks to me like the government puts these protests together and folks are more than willing to take part. It seems like the hatred of the west is something encouraged strongly at every level. I kow that somehow the rest of the world seems to think that every US citizen wants to bomb the crap out everybody in the M.E., but that is not my experience of all of the people I know and what I read and see on TV. It seems most folks are able to tell the difference between what the leadership of the country does and the people of the country. That applies to the US as well, but that is another thread.

I will say however that even though most here don't hate the iranian people, if things keep going the same direction and mahmoud follows through on his threats to attack israel or moreso the U.S. that the US citizens would turn nasty very fast and not be so "liberal" as some would say here(incorrectly btw). There is a feeling that what is going on in iraq is unjustified and wrong and therefore there is a lot of scrutiny into every aspect of the war and people are upset and want the leadership to be held responsible for what they feel is going wrong. This happens not only on the democratic side, but many republicans are outspoken as well.

That being said; if mahmoud managed to get a missile to hit the US the gloves would come off and the US citizens would not be so concerned for the fallout of the average joe in iran if they felt that they were fighing for their collective lives (I fully understand that goes both ways), but that is just how I would see things going if it goes bad.

I think that had the 15 marines had been Americans, that the US citizens would not be so patient as he Brits are and there would have been threats of military action a couple of days ago with no wiggle room for mahmoud to save face. Even though we have a lot of ground forces in Iraq, the Air force and the Navy are what we would need to take care of any offesive actions by mahmoud and we have plenty of that with not much to do...

If iran attempts to try the soldiers I believe that the Brits will ask for the help of the west and the UN and get it. Iran would not fair well if we decide to stop them.

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Nietze

No, US and UK don't vent about them quite that way , do they. They don't burn their flags. What they do is kill thousands upon thousands en masse . But if eveyone is interested in how the iranians dont have a particular regard for americans and british , but not so interested in the 655,000 iraqi's dead because you decided you needed a little bit more oil, then the issue will always be what you'd rather it to be , wouldn't it.

I'd also so as far to say that the americans dont particularly care that any british were caught. They don't hold any kind of special favoritism for british than anyone else. For them, its an opportune moment, a useful turn of events. Something that can be used of substance in a failing war of propoganda.

Edited by Nietze

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Fluffybunny
because you decided you needed a little bit more oil, then the issue will always be what you'd rather it to be , wouldn't it.

How do you come to the conclusion that it is appropriate to say "you" in regards to my response?

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KingTomis

well as soon as someone starts talking about a death count in Iraq at over 100k thent hey have no credebility and the post is not even worth looking at

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Bob26003

I had a feeling from the beginning that the Brits were lying. It's just sad that we can't trust our Governments even with an issue as important as War. :(

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Mad Manfred

Arguing over who owns what part of the ocean.

Silly humans.

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Nietze

What would you like me to say?, you don't like 'you' . ok, I have no problem with changing that to say the usa. Far more appropriate ..it gives that nice general feeling of national accountability, doesn't it.

haha, your funny mr tomis, i wont even bother getting reputable news links just for you. We will call it 100,000 . There . So, now you count up all that nasty iranian rhetoric and postering and tell me how that adds up to 100,000 innocent american dead ?

If you don't like being called thieves and murderers, you shouldn't go out doing it . Don't blame others for the rap you called upon yourselves.

Edited by Nietze

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Hawkmason

Iran is so hypocritical

they keep saying that there a peaceful people , but they try to provoke the U.S. and its allies and by kidnapping British forces and telling them to "Claim error" when there was no error at gun point

that Iranian president is the new antichrist

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Hawkmason
No, US and UK don't vent about them quite that way , do they. They don't burn their flags. What they do is kill thousands upon thousands en masse . But if eveyone is interested in how the iranians dont have a particular regard for americans and british , but not so interested in the 655,000 iraqi's dead because you decided you needed a little bit more oil, then the issue will always be what you'd rather it to be , wouldn't it.

I'd also so as far to say that the americans dont particularly care that any british were caught. They don't hold any kind of special favoritism for british than anyone else. For them, its an opportune moment, a useful turn of events. Something that can be used of substance in a failing war of propoganda.

wow you are clearly mis informed

that 655,000 Iraqis are TERRORISTS, people who kill other people because of there religion,race and/or creed

also if the U.S was intrested in the oil fields than our oil prices wouldnt be so god dam high!

what you forget is that what the United States did was Remove a Dictator and help trim down the Terroist population down that iraqi Al queda Opretive could have been the guy who bombs the building you were going to be at

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Mad Manfred
wow you are clearly mis informed

that 655,000 Iraqis are TERRORISTS, people who kill other people because of there religion,race and/or creed

also if the U.S was intrested in the oil fields than our oil prices wouldnt be so god dam high!

what you forget is that what the United States did was Remove a Dictator and help trim down the Terroist population down that iraqi Al queda Opretive could have been the guy who bombs the building you were going to be at

Most are insurgents, not terrorists.

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