Believers and Skeptics, Let's turn the tables

[airika]

AHA now there's a good point

To get back on topic here, I would like to point out the various responses to this statement. I don't feel the need to elaborate on this any more then we allready have. Evil is not a thing. God is not evil, Uhmanduh's post on this matter says it best my dear. I will repost it here, for your better understanding on the issue.

Did God create Evil? This will make you think for a while.

At a certain college, there was a professor with a reputation for being
tough on Christians. At the first class every semester, he asked if anyone 
was a Christian and proceeded to degrade them and to mock their statement of
faith. One semester, he asked the question and a young man raised his hand
when asked if anyone was a Christian.

The professor asked, "Did God make everything, young man?" 

He replied, "Yes sir He did!" 

The professor responded, "If God made everything, then He made evil." 

The student didn't have a response and the professor was happy to have once
again proved the Christian faith to be a myth. 

Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something, sir?"


"Yes, you may," responded the professor.

The young man stood up and said "Sir, is there such thing as cold?" 

"Of course there is, what kind of question is that? Haven't you ever been
cold?" 

The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold doesn't exist.
What we consider to be cold, is really an absence of heat. Absolute zero is
when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have
only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there." 

The young man continued, "Sir, is there such a thing as dark?" 

Once again, the professor responded "Of course there is." 

And once again, the student replied "Actually, sir, darkness does not exist.
Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term 
man developed to describe what happens when there is no light present." 

Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such thing as evil?" 

The professor responded, "Of course. We have rapes, and murders and
violence everywhere in the world, those things are evil." 

The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is
simply the absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the 
absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, 
which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state 
where God is not present, like cold without heat or darkness without light."


The professor had nothing to say............ 

Be full of Christ today, there is no room for anything else......... 

Remember if you love your neighbor as yourself, pass this on! 

God Bless You!

Edited March 26, 2007 by airika

[Beckys_Mom]

To get back on topic here, I would like to point out the various responses to this statement. I don't feel the need to elaborate on this any more then we allready have. Evil is not a thing. God is not evil, Uhmanduh's post on this matter says it best my dear.

I agreed with Brave for that comment...simply because airka, I do believe he has a point.....see i believe god is all thats good..cuz I chose to believe so..but what about evil..well I don't believe there is a devil...therefore could this mean God can be evil too?? I mean I have to be able to look at it from someone elses eyes, try and see what they see..and not sit here on my backside wrapped up in just my beliefs eh?? Well here I go...

Think about it...from a non believer point of view....they see all that is wrong with the world, some have said, that with all the praying, their loved ones still suffered and died...therefore that ADDS to their views of either A - No God..cuz no allloving God would allow this to happen...B - If there is a God and those that claim, he is EVERYTHING, then dont pick and chose what that everything is...evil plays a big massive part in life also..so evil should fit right in ...okie dokie then...this makes sense to me...but like I said TO ME....you may think likewise airka...so will others...each to their own ideas...dont you agree??

[KBA]

I agreed with Brave for that comment...simply because airka, I do believe he has a point.....see i believe god is all thats good..cuz I chose to believe so..but what about evil..well I don't believe there is a devil...therefore could this mean God can be evil too?? I mean I have to be able to look at it from someone elses eyes, try and see what they see..and not sit here on my backside wrapped up in just my beliefs eh?? Well here I go...

Think about it...from a non believer point of view....they see all that is wrong with the world, some have said, that with all the praying, their loved ones still suffered and died...therefore that ADDS to their views of either A - No God..cuz no allloving God would allow this to happen...B - If there is a God and those that claim, he is EVERYTHING, then dont pick and chose what that everything is...evil plays a big massive part in life also..so evil should fit right in ...okie dokie then...this makes sense to me...but like I said TO ME....you may think likewise airka...so will others...each to their own ideas...dont you agree??

Here's the problem. (sorry to get off of the original topic and show my real opinions but),

If God is everything, he is EVERYTHING. That means I am God, you are God, Brave is God. So then what is God, but irrelevant? God is pointless if God is everything, because then God does not fit the definition of God. Everything is everything, that is all there is. If God is everything, then call it everything, not God.

[airika]

I agreed with Brave for that comment...simply because airka, I do believe he has a point.....see i believe god is all thats good..cuz I chose to believe so..but what about evil..well I don't believe there is a devil...therefore could this mean God can be evil too?? I mean I have to be able to look at it from someone elses eyes, try and see what they see..and not sit here on my backside wrapped up in just my beliefs eh?? Well here I go...

Think about it...from a non believer point of view....they see all that is wrong with the world, some have said, that with all the praying, their loved ones still suffered and died...therefore that ADDS to their views of either A - No God..cuz no allloving God would allow this to happen...B - If there is a God and those that claim, he is EVERYTHING, then dont pick and chose what that everything is...evil plays a big massive part in life also..so evil should fit right in ...okie dokie then...this makes sense to me...but like I said TO ME....you may think likewise airka...so will others...each to their own ideas...dont you agree??

ok..sweetie....I'm not sure if you're playing by the rules. It seems to me that you're still keeping in your same beliefs. I am an agnostic at heart, not Christian. That being said, Good, as well as Evil, is a state of mind. Good is the word used to describe pure moral actions, and Evil is used to describe hateful, immoral acts. So by definition of the word good, then yes..God is good in his moral state of mind.

[Condescending]

To get back on topic here, I would like to point out the various responses to this statement. I don't feel the need to elaborate on this any more then we allready have. Evil is not a thing. God is not evil, Uhmanduh's post on this matter says it best my dear. I will repost it here, for your better understanding on the issue.

Did God create Evil? This will make you think for a while.

At a certain college, there was a professor with a reputation for being
tough on Christians. At the first class every semester, he asked if anyone 
was a Christian and proceeded to degrade them and to mock their statement of
faith. One semester, he asked the question and a young man raised his hand
when asked if anyone was a Christian.

The professor asked, "Did God make everything, young man?" 

He replied, "Yes sir He did!" 

The professor responded, "If God made everything, then He made evil." 

The student didn't have a response and the professor was happy to have once
again proved the Christian faith to be a myth. 

Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something, sir?"
"Yes, you may," responded the professor.

The young man stood up and said "Sir, is there such thing as cold?" 

"Of course there is, what kind of question is that? Haven't you ever been
cold?" 

The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold doesn't exist.
What we consider to be cold, is really an absence of heat. Absolute zero is
when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have
only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there." 

The young man continued, "Sir, is there such a thing as dark?" 

Once again, the professor responded "Of course there is." 

And once again, the student replied "Actually, sir, darkness does not exist.
Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term 
man developed to describe what happens when there is no light present." 

Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such thing as evil?" 

The professor responded, "Of course. We have rapes, and murders and
violence everywhere in the world, those things are evil." 

The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is
simply the absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the 
absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, 
which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state 
where God is not present, like cold without heat or darkness without light."
The professor had nothing to say............ 

Be full of Christ today, there is no room for anything else......... 

Remember if you love your neighbor as yourself, pass this on! 

God Bless You!

I must admit the first thing that came too my mind is "first there was darkness..... "

[bornagainuhmanduh]

I must admit the first thing that came too my mind is "first there was darkness..... "

Yes, but what came before the darkness...GOD! God created light, and goodness out of nothingness, not darkness. Darkness exists because light exists. Maybe you should read my story again!

[Beckys_Mom]

ok..sweetie....I'm not sure if you're playing by the rules. It seems to me that you're still keeping in your same beliefs. I am an agnostic at heart, not Christian. That being said, Good, as well as Evil, is a state of mind. Good is the word used to describe pure moral actions, and Evil is used to describe hateful, immoral acts. So by definition of the word good, then yes..God is good in his moral state of mind.

RULES??? I have no rules airka...I do know this...everyone has their OWN ideas on what is evil and whats not evil....

And it does seem that I am STILL keeping to my SAME beliefs...well observed..good..and I am proud to do so...I am proud of who I am ...What you need to realize is..everybody has a right, to state how they see things...they dont need rules shoved in their faces either

Just because I can place myself in a non believer shoes...dont make me a lesser person..in fact, it makes me STRONGER IMO it sure does

Ever notice that when i post I will nearly always write -- IMO (in my opinion)?? thats because I will only state my opinions

How you see EVIL..and how others see EVIL...are a tad different...this is something you have to accept..or not your choice chick!!

[Condescending]

Yes, but what came before the darkness...GOD! God created light, and goodness out of nothingness, not darkness. Darkness exists because light exists. Maybe you should read my story again!

I was answering her little story, this young man said that darkness is a man made term, I just noted that it was the way it was used to describe the creation in this well known book that some people find infalible. its a funny contradiction especially when the title holds "this will make you think for a while"

But I will give you this virtual hug *hug* and get on to reading your story now

[Beckys_Mom]

Yes, but what came before the darkness...GOD! God created light, and goodness out of nothingness, not darkness. Darkness exists because light exists. Maybe you should read my story again!

WOW good post...but I hate to disagree with you there...but not saying you are so wrong...cuz after all its your view right?? And I cant prove you wrong either can I??

I on the other hand believe that 1st was darkness...then God brought the light with him as he created all that shines brightly...even here on earth..im sure it was one dark place..before God took it apon himself to bring light..then he got to work LOL thats just how I imagine it

[bornagainuhmanduh]

I was answering her little story, this young man said that darkness is a man made term, I just noted that it was the way it was used to describe the creation in this well known book that some people find infalible. its a funny contradiction especially when the title holds "this will make you think for a while"

But I will give you this virtual hug *hug* and get on to reading your story now

Actually, I totally agree with you! I was just trying to play the role *hugs* back

Edited March 26, 2007 by uhmanduh

[airika]

RULES??? I have no rules airka...I do know this...everyone has their OWN ideas on what is evil and whats not evil....

And it does seem that I am STILL keeping to my SAME beliefs...well observed..good..and I am proud to do so...I am proud of who I am ...What you need to realize is..everybody has a right, to state how they see things...they dont need rules shoved in their faces either

Just because I can place myself in a non believer shoes...dont make me a lesser person..in fact, it makes me STRONGER IMO it sure does

Ever notice that when i post I will nearly always write -- IMO (in my opinion)?? thats because I will only state my opinions

How you see EVIL..and how others see EVIL...are a tad different...this is something you have to accept..or not your choice chick!!

ok..WOW chick....I didn't mean to imply that you were acting as a non christian, and if you were, then I'm sorry, I didn't see it. I've never called you a lesser person...I was refering to the fact that your posts don't insinuate that. I'm sorry if the word rules offended you, that was certainly never my intentions!

Edited March 26, 2007 by airika

[airika]

Here's the problem. (sorry to get off of the original topic and show my real opinions but),

If God is everything, he is EVERYTHING. That means I am God, you are God, Brave is God. So then what is God, but irrelevant? God is pointless if God is everything, because then God does not fit the definition of God. Everything is everything, that is all there is. If God is everything, then call it everything, not God.

I would like to point out though, that God isn't everything in the sense one would tend to think. It's more along the lines of, God is IN everything. God had a hand in making everything that we need.

[Beckys_Mom]

ok..WOW chick....I didn't mean to imply that you were acting as a non christian, and if you were, then I'm sorry, I didn't see it. I've never called you a lesser person...I was refering to the fact that your posts don't insinuate that. I'm sorry if the word rules offended you, that was certainly never my intentions!

Ohh no need to apologize but thanks anyhoo...but see I just felt as though, you where pushing how you see things on to me, and I guess when you mention rules and me not following them, it did make me think that..so I too am sorry <--ya gotta forgive that face LOL ...but I wasnt angered LOL I was just trying to point out that everyone see's things in different ways....I just like to view other peoples idea, chew on them for a bit, then see where they are coming from, and hoped you would understand.. See im not from a religious faith airka...I made up my own faith in God..so I dont have rules to follow, like those that follow christianity, they have rules of their own...but like i always say, each to their own

I just like to read ideas...I am not baised see...I just like to place myself in their shoes, cuz that way, I can be more understanding

[airika]

Ohh no need to apologize but thanks anyhoo...but see I just felt as though, you where pushing how you see things on to me, and I guess when you mention rules and me not following them, it did make me think that..so I too am sorry <--ya gotta forgive that face LOL ...but I wasnt angered LOL I was just trying to point out that everyone see's things in different ways....I just like to view other peoples idea, chew on them for a bit, then see where they are coming from, and hoped you would understand.. See im not from a religious faith airka...I made up my own faith in God..so I dont have rules to follow, like those that follow christianity, they have rules of their own...but like i always say, each to their own

I just like to read ideas...I am not baised see...I just like to place myself in their shoes, cuz that way, I can be more understanding

LOL...that's what we're all doing here sweetie.....I'm pretending to be a Christian.

[airika]

I agreed with Brave for that comment...simply because airka, I do believe he has a point.....see i believe god is all thats good..cuz I chose to believe so..but what about evil..well I don't believe there is a devil...therefore could this mean God can be evil too?? I mean I have to be able to look at it from someone elses eyes, try and see what they see..and not sit here on my backside wrapped up in just my beliefs eh?? Well here I go...

Think about it...from a non believer point of view....they see all that is wrong with the world, some have said, that with all the praying, their loved ones still suffered and died...therefore that ADDS to their views of either A - No God..cuz no allloving God would allow this to happen...B - If there is a God and those that claim, he is EVERYTHING, then dont pick and chose what that everything is...evil plays a big massive part in life also..so evil should fit right in ...okie dokie then...this makes sense to me...but like I said TO ME....you may think likewise airka...so will others...each to their own ideas...dont you agree??

In response to this, I would like to point out that in Hebrews chapter 11, it states that if you do not have complete faith in God, and all that he is, and all that he does, you will not please him. To question the word of God, or the things that God does, is a sin. God will show everyone the truth in the end. If we question him, he will become angry. I feel it's best to trust every word that he has said, and I will please him.

[bornagainuhmanduh]

In response to this, I would like to point out that in Hebrews chapter 11, it states that if you do not have complete faith in God, and all that he is, and all that he does, you will not please him. To question the word of God, or the things that God does, is a sin. God will show everyone the truth in the end. If we question him, he will become angry. I feel it's best to trust every word that he has said, and I will please him.

You know, I was just about to bring up Hebrews chapter 11 *straight face*. Good point airika. Everyone will be judged accordingly.

[Beckys_Mom]

LOL...that's what we're all doing here sweetie.....I'm pretending to be a Christian.

Ohhhhh you are pretending to be a christian LOL sorrrryy ha ha I wondered why you where so pushyLOL

in that case i'll join in...im going to be a chrsitan too LOL

*puts on christian mask* *grabs her sign*

In all seriousness its going to be hard for me to do LOL

But it will let people see what its like to have the shoe on the other foot for a change

Now all I have to do is..remember what it was like for me as a chrsitian back in the day..in order to give this a shot

Edited March 26, 2007 by Beckys_Mom

[texasgirlheather]

In response to this, I would like to point out that in Hebrews chapter 11, it states that if you do not have complete faith in God, and all that he is, and all that he does, you will not please him. To question the word of God, or the things that God does, is a sin. God will show everyone the truth in the end. If we question him, he will become angry. I feel it's best to trust every word that he has said, and I will please him.

So it's just about you being pleasing, is that all of it? Maintaining an image, following the rules? There's nothing more than that, or is there? What happens when you break one of the rules?

[texasgirlheather]

LOL *seven pages later, BM gets the joke*

You're very cute sometimes, BM.

[Beckys_Mom]

LOL *seven pages later, BM gets the joke*

You're very cute sometimes, BM.

I KNOW LMAO I didnt look at the title much..I just popped in real quick..read 1st post and just answered like normal...then I sat here wondering why is everyone acting weird LMAO...I saw your posts saying you don't believe in God ect ect...thats when i went HOLD has someone converted our very own Texas??WTF?? how dare they LMAO im laughing about it all now...but the game is a good idea

[Beckys_Mom]

So it's just about you being pleasing, is that all of it? Maintaining an image, following the rules? There's nothing more than that, or is there? What happens when you break one of the rules?

Then you will have to face God and answer to him, then you may be thrown into hell, but if you ask Jesus for forgiveness, you will be SAVED....REPENT NOW TEXAS, let me be your wittness??

Texas my dear, you have to realize we all live by certain rules, look at the law and order of the country you live in, it has rules/laws that you follow right? A lot of those laws are like our lords 10 commandments, and much like them, if you break the law, you will be punished, just like Gods rules, break em, get punished, and face hell forever and ever and ever.

I'll pray for you Texas

Yours faithfully

BM

[Beckys_Mom]

Well said, texas :clap: :tsu: :clap:

Besides, if the God of the Bible is the real God, i'd rather die than follow such a blatantly evil creature (mass murder/genocide, rape, slavery, and that's just touching the tip of the ice-berg). If the Bible-God exists, it is clearly insane.

My dearest PA, for you have been greatly blinded by your own ignorance. We must not take what is written in the bible as literal, you are taking it waaaaayyyyyyy out of context PA

Man is evil, not God. God is all that is loving, but yes I must remind myself from time to time, that he is like a parent, he is our Father PA. And like any good parent, if you disobey him, he will punish you, just like a parent would (meaning a good one)

Have you read about our lord Jesus christ? Do you believe he is responcible for all the rape, murder, genocide ect? NO Jesus was a great man, a strong loving man, he only ever did GOOD, he helped those who where sick and in great need of him, he preformed miricals, he spread the word in the hope that people will realize who his father in heaven is, and when they accept him and his word, they too will be SAVED

This is a man that put himself on the cross for our sins, to save us all, you MUST accept it PA, and when you do, you will be saved from the sparks of hell.

Now does this sound like someone who is evil to you PA?? Jesus is God therefore, NOT EVIL......... see what im saying??

So do you want to repent now? If you do, you will walk with Jesus, you will spend the rest of your eternity with the rest of your loved ones (that agreed to be saved) in his fathers kingdom

I'll pray for you PA

Regards BM

[hyperactive]

good morning bm,

on top of the written rules are the unwritten rules of a society, which carry a far greater impact (and in most cases are abstractions/extentions of human survival instincts)

(please don't read that i am interpreting your meaning bm. I agree with your post. I won't be on again for a few days to a week so if you reply and and I don't respond you know why.)

[Beckys_Mom]

But the difference is that science admits its mistakes. People who follow the Bible will never admit that there are mistakes in the text. In fact, science exists in part to prove itself wrong. Through study, we are consistently learning new things, and growing our understanding of the universe. The answers are always changing with the information we get. The answer religion gives is the same today as it was 1700 years ago when the Bishops at Nicaea re-wrote the Bible to fit their dogma.

I can't ADMIT to what I cannot see PA, I dont see any mistakes in the bible, this bible is my pride and joy

I dont appreciate you saying there are mistakes and how we christians wont admit to them....we didn't write the bible, GOD inspired man to do it...with NO mistakes

The bible is truth, those that say, ohh look mistakes, are only just saying that out of jealousy and some say it out of spite for our lord Jesus, they are the ones wearing rose tinted glasses lol not us chrsitains, we KNOW truth when we read it got that??

NOW...listen up.....would you like to point out these so called mistakes?? go ahead PA point them out, take your time though, cuz lets face it, you wouldnt know where to look I am willing to put money on that PA

What you see as a mistake, is just something you don't understand, that's why you THINK (yea I mean think) there are mistakes, but I would like for you to prove to me what these mistakes are, and like I said, I will place money on it, you wont be able to find them

But for being so blinded by your own mistakes...I will forgive you

You are forgiven

[bornagainuhmanduh]

So it's just about you being pleasing, is that all of it? Maintaining an image, following the rules? There's nothing more than that, or is there? What happens when you break one of the rules?

It's not about maintaining an image. Well, for some it is, but for many it is a deep relationship with God. Listen, when it comes down to it, it is about you and your relationship with God, not anyone else. You are the one you have to deal with everyday, and it is God who makes you aware of who you really are, and what you are truly capable of, and this will give you a moral compass to follow. It's really not about breaking any rules, it's about accepting Christ as your saviour.

Mark 15:34

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This is the gift he gave to you, for you to have everlasting life. For all to have everlasting life if they accept it. What a beautiful gift!

(I want everyone to know that I am being very serious in this thread, I am not trying to be mean or belittle! Just to make that clear I am trying to respect, except for little off side joking here and there)

Edited March 27, 2007 by uhmanduh