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Modified sheep is 15% human

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MUM24/7
I understand what you are saying, I just can't make sense of it. So according to you anything that happens is natural. So, a man goes to a surgeon, says "cut off my penis and make it into a vagina." When he is done, he is a natural woman? I think not.

I think most, if not all, transexuals will disagree with you here....The idea of chopping off their penis and fashioning a vagina out of it, is their ultimate goal in becoming a natural woman.... ;)

Just ignore me... :D Welcome to UM and if you haven't guessed already, I'm the resident comedian who pops up to provide a little light relief every now and then....... :rofl: Carry on......

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Wolfen69

I cannot say how much I have enjoyed this thread. Good read…

Fist if god intended us to use sheep’s organs he would of made them compatible. I love this view. So much that it makes me remember “If god intended us to fly we would have wings.” Speech. Do not flame me yet just read on.

I myself do believe in God! Do I think that he is up there micro managing everyone and everything like a Sims game? Naaa I think God set it up and let it run. If we ever do come face to face with God when people start winning about why did you let this happen or why did that happen he is going to look at us and say “Hay I just made everything, you where the beings that ****ed it up.”

I am not saying get the kitchen knife and grab a sheep Bobby needs a new heart. I see BIG problems with this. Am I the ONLY ONE that caught this? “When the lamb is born, two months later, it would have a liver, heart, lungs and brain that are partly human and available for transplant.” !!!?! BRAIN !?!!! First of all I never heard of any one getting a BRAIN transplant. I do not think I would even want one from a sheep.

People have been trying for years to use animals as organ donors for years. They even had a human ear on the back of a mouse. This is life. There are all ways going to be people like it or not that are going to push to see what they can do. Is this wrong or right? In my view what is going to be pivot point in mankind to decide if we are good or evil is how we are going to treat other thinking critters. Yep I said it.

One of these days someone somewhere is going to go too far and we will have our self a living, breathing, and talking sheep. Are we going to have the heart to say “Yes Ms Sheep I know that was your first child. But one of our kind needed a new lung. Do not worry the rest of him got used. What do you think of my new hat?” Are we going to say who cares if the sheep talk there still not better than us humans cut them up any way. I can think of other countries that might not be as well off as I am and there 100% human. Let’s call up the army and go get them. Solve all of our organ replacement problems and never have to bat an eye at growing organs.

Yes I am being silly, but I am still making a point. It might not even be a sheep. Might be a program on a computer somewhere that ask the important question all by itself. “WHO AM I?” I think that is something we all need to ask. Who are we? With great power and knowledge comes grate responsibility. I am not saying to stop moving forward, but to think about if we are ready to deal with what the outcome might be. From what I see we cannot treat others that our different than us with respect what makes you think it will be any different with something that is not even the same species as us.

Sorry for the grammar mistakes kind of hard to type with hoofs. OK, that was Baaaaaad…

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dabomb665m
Sorry for the grammar mistakes kind of hard to type with hoofs. OK, that was Baaaaaad…

LOL

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Kalien
I think most, if not all, transexuals will disagree with you here....The idea of chopping off their penis and fashioning a vagina out of it, is their ultimate goal in becoming a natural woman.... ;)

Just ignore me... :D Welcome to UM and if you haven't guessed already, I'm the resident comedian who pops up to provide a little light relief every now and then....... :rofl: Carry on......

Most transexuals annoy me greatly. "I AM A WOMAN ON THE INSIDE!!1" lmao, yeah right.

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ToxicLogic

Where to begin, where to begin...

So if there is a god, you know what he is thinking now as well? For all we know he gave mankind the knowledge to break out and learn more about the world around them. If god didn't want this to happen, surely an all mighty and all powerful being could limit some mortal men with their knowledge. Or at least an all mighty and all powerful god could smite the researchers on this project as a warning... Right? Not even a blink of work for such a powerful being. :)

Plus, it's not like religion has ever given the human race anything worthy, so bringing god up into the discussion when god offers nothing to help, is quite irresponsible.

First of all I am not gonna get all high and mighty and say that I know what God is thinking, what would be the point of God of we all knew what he was thinking. What I am saying is my belief. And yes, I do know that not everyone believes in God and I recpect that and I hope that they will respect my beliefs also. I believe that just b/c God hasn't smited the researchers down doesn't mean he believes what they are doing is okay. How many rapists and murderers are running around loose. You can't honestly believe that if there is a God that he thinks its okay just b/c he hasn't smited them down. Something will happen in time to punish us for our wrong doings. Does Noah's Arc ring a bell? And I am not even going to respond to the last part of your post.

So let me ask you this... when a cheetah chases and hunts down a yack, is that an occurance of nature? If your answer is yes, then how can you say any action humans make to be an unnatural occurance? Broken logic! Are you basically saying that humans are an unnatural existance? Your previous statements have been stating that humans are natural (god or evolution or both) YET human actions are not natural. That is where the contradiction in the logic occurs in my opinion. There are indeed many scientists who believe many things are unnatural, but I believe they suffer the same delusion/broken logic. Humans are not special... we are part of the planet physically, spawned on the planet, and will return to the planet(physically).

No one said that every human action is unnatural. It is very natural to breath, eat, breed (w/another human of course). We also do a number of unnatural things, slipping a a sheep a litle DNA cocktail is one of them.

I think most, if not all, transexuals will disagree with you here....The idea of chopping off their penis and fashioning a vagina out of it, is their ultimate goal in becoming a natural woman.... ;)

I understand what you are saying, but I think that what their ultimate DREAM is, is to be a natural woman. Now unless they have some mental problems I am sure that they understand they will never be a NATURAL woman. They were not born w/woman parts, thus they are not naturally a woman.

Just ignore me... :D Welcome to UM and if you haven't guessed already, I'm the resident comedian who pops up to provide a little light relief every now and then....... :rofl: Carry on......

Thanks for the welcome. We were in some serious need of comic relief in here. It was getting a little stuffy.

I am not saying get the kitchen knife and grab a sheep Bobby needs a new heart. I see BIG problems with this. Am I the ONLY ONE that caught this? “When the lamb is born, two months later, it would have a liver, heart, lungs and brain that are partly human and available for transplant.” !!!?! BRAIN !?!!! First of all I never heard of any one getting a BRAIN transplant. I do not think I would even want one from a sheep.

No, you are not the only one who caught this. This is really my main problem with all of it. Who is to say that a human's life is worth more than a sheep's? And yes, I understand that we use animals for our own good all the time ie food, clothing, etc. But I think we are going to far with this "playing God" thing. I understand that we have been "playing God" so to speak for awhile. Anytime a heart is restarted, drugs are given for cancer, and so on and so on, one can say that we are "playing God" to a point. My question is, where do we draw a line? I think its time to draw it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of these days someone somewhere is going to go too far and we will have our self a living, breathing, and talking sheep. Are we going to have the heart to say “Yes Ms Sheep I know that was your first child. But one of our kind needed a new lung. Do not worry the rest of him got used. What do you think of my new hat?” Are we going to say who cares if the sheep talk there still not better than us humans cut them up any way. I can think of other countries that might not be as well off as I am and there 100% human. Let’s call up the army and go get them. Solve all of our organ replacement problems and never have to bat an eye at growing organs.

I totally agree with this.

Sorry for the grammar mistakes kind of hard to type with hoofs. OK, that was Baaaaaad…

LOL!! :lol:

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glorybebe
You see, this is where I disagree with toxiclogic and you as well. Your discussions of the topic still hold a moral layer to it, something which I try to avoid. There would be much contradiction if one would eat meat but defy genetic engineering because in both cases an animal is being compromised for the sake of humanity. Now, why do I feel there is some sort of moral layer/code being enforced on humans masked in your opinion? You say: "Nature refers to the phenomena of the physical world... and also life in general. It does not include manufactured objects/human interaction". That seems to be what toxiclogic is saying as well. It's holding humans to a higher moral standard and assumes human's transcend all beings on the planet.

So let me ask you this... when a cheetah chases and hunts down a yack, is that an occurance of nature? If your answer is yes, then how can you say any action humans make to be an unnatural occurance? Broken logic! Are you basically saying that humans are an unnatural existance? Your previous statements have been stating that humans are natural (god or evolution or both) YET human actions are not natural. That is where the contradiction in the logic occurs in my opinion. There are indeed many scientists who believe many things are unnatural, but I believe they suffer the same delusion/broken logic. Humans are not special... we are part of the planet physically, spawned on the planet, and will return to the planet(physically).

IF however, you guys think humans are an unnatural case of existence then I can see where your belief of these actions to be unnatural in nature stems from. That then is a different discussion altogether and again brings me back to my FIRST post on this forum... two things can't be discussed if mutual logical assumptions aren't made before hand. Without logic, It would just be a war of opinions that never ends. Usually that leads to wars of the physical kind as well. You then, are not discussing the natural-ity (for lack of a better word) of these genetic modifications but instead are debating the nature of human existance... So what is it, are we natural or not?

What are you talking about? Read my post again. That quote is not my words, but I agree with them. How do you get that humans are not natural from that? You just want to believe what you want, and will twist words to get the meaning from them that you want. Humans have been putting themselves up above other animals for years, check out how Christians believe(d) that animals don't have souls, yet humans do. Now, I am far from being Christian. Humans have already changed the face of this Earth to suit themselves. We have brought to extinction many, many animals and plants. We have poisoned this Earth so badly, it's questionable to the survival on any living creature other than the cockroach.

Now I have not been in the situation that many people have been where either themselves or someone very dear to them is/ has been waiting for a transplant. The grief and scare of that I am incredibly empathetic to. I have done read A LOT about genetics, not that I am an expert or anything, not saying that I know more than anyone on this board, for I am positive that I know next to nothing compared to some. BUT, from what i have read, the mixing of genetics has always had problems. Why would we invite a chance for more genetic problems than we already do? I can understand studies of amphibians who can grow back limbs, obviously they have awesome regenerative abilities. Why can't we concentrate on those, and if someone has a problem with like say their heart, if they could just regenerate their own organ, it would be safer. AI just can't get around using a sheep for this. Like was stated earlier, a pig is closer to our makeup, why a sheep? Again, just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

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Pandora7321

To quote ToxicLogic: "Why do you have to use logic when it comes to evolution? If you believe in evolution then you don't believe that God created the world, if you believe that God created the world, then you cannot believe in evolution. How hard is that to understand?"

Apparently, if you think in black and white only, everything is hard to understand. How terribly close minded to make such a statement. I believe in God AND I believe in evolution. I know A LOT of other people who do as well. If you believe that God created all living creatures AND you believe God created the earth AND you believe that the earth is a planet that has been NATURALLY shifting and changing since it's creation, then wouldn't it be LOGICAL to assume that a loving God would create creatures that were able to evolve naturally in order to be able to survive?

Would a loving, omnipotent God intentionally create a constantly changing planet and then inhabit it with un-changing creatures?

I enjoy open discussions. I'm not a debater and I'm not out to sway people to my way of thinking. I believe that people can have intelligent discussions on controversial subjects, listen openly to each other's views, agree to disagree and still be friends. But, it is incredibly hard to have an open discussion when one's mind is closed.

Edited by Pandora2173

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ToxicLogic
Apparently, if you think in black and white only, everything is hard to understand. How terribly close minded to make such a statement. I believe in God AND I believe in evolution. I know A LOT of other people who do as well. If you believe that God created all living creatures AND you believe God created the earth AND you believe that the earth is a planet that has been NATURALLY shifting and changing since it's creation, then wouldn't it be LOGICAL to assume that a loving God would create creatures that were able to evolve naturally in order to be able to survive?

If you read the entire page you would have seen that on my next post, after having this pointed out by Raptor X7, I said that I had been thinking of the Big Bang Theory. I was the first to admit what I said was wrong and I went on to explain that I did believe that there has been a certain amount of undenialable evolution. Please read it all before you go after someone on something they said 2 pages back. Alot can be said in that period.

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ToxicLogic
What are you talking about? Read my post again. That quote is not my words, but I agree with them. How do you get that humans are not natural from that? You just want to believe what you want, and will twist words to get the meaning from them that you want.

I am glad that I am not the only one who sees him doing this too. :tu:

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dabomb665m
What are you talking about? Read my post again. That quote is not my words, but I agree with them. How do you get that humans are not natural from that? You just want to believe what you want, and will twist words to get the meaning from them that you want. Humans have been putting themselves up above other animals for years, check out how Christians believe(d) that animals don't have souls, yet humans do. Now, I am far from being Christian. Humans have already changed the face of this Earth to suit themselves. We have brought to extinction many, many animals and plants. We have poisoned this Earth so badly, it's questionable to the survival on any living creature other than the cockroach.

Now I have not been in the situation that many people have been where either themselves or someone very dear to them is/ has been waiting for a transplant. The grief and scare of that I am incredibly empathetic to. I have done read A LOT about genetics, not that I am an expert or anything, not saying that I know more than anyone on this board, for I am positive that I know next to nothing compared to some. BUT, from what i have read, the mixing of genetics has always had problems. Why would we invite a chance for more genetic problems than we already do? I can understand studies of amphibians who can grow back limbs, obviously they have awesome regenerative abilities. Why can't we concentrate on those, and if someone has a problem with like say their heart, if they could just regenerate their own organ, it would be safer. AI just can't get around using a sheep for this. Like was stated earlier, a pig is closer to our makeup, why a sheep? Again, just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

I'm not twisting anyone's words nor am I trying to get or force the meaning that I want. I am merely presenting to you what your logic entails from what YOU yourself speak of. Perhaps you didn't quote properly but you posted as if they were your own worsd. My stance is neutral and has been, I'm merely playing devil's advocate in an attempt to excercise logic and discussion on the topic. It is clear that many people need to take a few courses in logic and philosophy before trying to debate a point for themselves.

What you mention about how humans have destroyed things and poisoned the Earth... wouldn't you say that IF you believe that, then you believe the Human race is unnatural? I am merely poking people's beliefs, trying to find why they feel the way they do... and all I'm saying is it is obvious to me if one believes something like this is unnatural, then they must believe that humans are unnatural as well.

It's obvious that we can all agree to disagree... but really what's the point of discussing then? What I'm getting at is without open minds and mutually agreed logic as a foundation of the discussion, the discussion will end up becoming a mess of opinions. If you follow my posts you will see I continue to keep regressing into people's logic on the topic based on their opinion. We can't move forward unless we agree on something first. Basically we would be arguing apples and oranges if some mutual, logical starting point is not established first... how is that so hard to understand?

Currently the question is nature. Some are claiming that this genetic work is unnatural. I'm merely asking how some would come to that conclusion. In a proper discussion, saying "because i just think so" , "because it's against god" or "because the definition of natural is blah blah" doesn't move the conversation forward. It's terminating in purpose....

Present your argument with irrefutable logic... and we would start to get somewhere.

And to Toxiclogic, my original argument still holds true. You're saying some things we do are unnatural... but according to who? Based on what? I know you feel it is wrong but merely feeling so is not good enough in this world. I agreed that if you had something relative to compare to, you can logically debate the nature of it... clearly like you said, a sheep and a modified sheep can be compared and say yes... the modified sheep is unnatural RELATIVE to the normal sheep. Don't you get it yet? For something to be natural, there has to be an ABSOLUTE definition of that something for relative comparison. What I'm saying is nothing that is done on earth can, as far as we know, be relatively compared to something else and thus everything that happens on earth is natural.

Let's say some extra-terrestrial sheep-like being lands on planet earth. It's green, has 6 legs, 3 tails and 2 heads. HOW would we know if it's natural? We have nothing to compare it with, it's out of this world. Now then, how can you say any instant on Earth is unnatural if you can't compare Earth to something else? So again, you can only claim something is natural IF you have something relative to compare it to. This is why Plato believed in absolute forms, for the sake of argument and to give us relativity... basically give us the ability to judge things. It was a major breakthrough of their time... and spawned logical discussions.

Edited by dabomb665m

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__Kratos__
First of all I am not gonna get all high and mighty and say that I know what God is thinking, what would be the point of God of we all knew what he was thinking. What I am saying is my belief. And yes, I do know that not everyone believes in God and I recpect that and I hope that they will respect my beliefs also. I believe that just b/c God hasn't smited the researchers down doesn't mean he believes what they are doing is okay. How many rapists and murderers are running around loose. You can't honestly believe that if there is a God that he thinks its okay just b/c he hasn't smited them down. Something will happen in time to punish us for our wrong doings. Does Noah's Arc ring a bell?

So you do respect that yet you want this to stop. You're not part of this research and you can choose not to benefit from it. According to christians God gives you free will... Now you can either sin or embrace christ. So let these guys sin while you embrace christ as you want. God didn't give you free will only so you can take free will from other men.

So because god is a terrorist who has in the past, according to the bible, has commited genocide... We shouldn't use free will to sin? :blink: That's quite a thinker... Genocide and terrorism against an entire planet of people compared to using science to improve lives.

I think on the morality debate, I'll go with helping suffering people improve their lifes for a better future.

And I am not even going to respond to the last part of your post.

I don't blame you, it's a hard thing to ponder as a believer. Never the less it's 100% truth.

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kobolds

someone doing a danger stuff . a 15% can also mean brain . if this continue , one day we will see sheep that talk

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AtlantisRises

I know plenty of sheep that talk. Some are on this site.

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Kalien
I know plenty of sheep that talk. Some are on this site.

Ohhhh burn.

This is a disturbing trend though if they aren't limited to what kinds of things they can do.

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Ravinar
I totally don't like all of the weird things that humans are doing to EVERYTHING, i.e cloning, genetically modified foods, etc. But, unless you are a hardcore vegan, it's a little ridiculous to worry about the plight of the poor sheep. If you know anything about the food processing industry at all, you know that they waste NOTHING. I worked in a seafood processing plant for two years. Everything is used, and I mean everything. Even the "sawdust" from cutting frozen swordfish steaks is squeegied off the floor, boxed up, and sold to catfood companies. This is not done out of a "waste not, want not" mentality, but for profit. The side money from the sell of scrap alone covers overhead.

My point is this. They will not just take the organs and toss the rest of the sheep away. You better believe that if doctors and scientists start harvesting organs from sheep, the rest of that sheep will be sold off to so many processing plants it'll make your head spin. Think of the real shammy you use on your car. That nice leather jacket you ordered off of QVC. The wool in your sweater, blankets, carpets etc. The meat in your dog's food. The lanolin in your moisturizers and lotions.......etc. etc. etc.

after reading this I'm seriously considering becoming a vegetarian and staying away from all animal products in which i don't know where they came from. $#%& this *&%$ I'm so p***ed off with the hole world that i don't even care any more. here's to the fall of mankind! may it be slow and painful we deserve it.

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AtlantisRises
Ohhhh burn.

This is a disturbing trend though if they aren't limited to what kinds of things they can do.

:rofl: :lmao:

I don't think its such a problem though. The fact is that if it results in a=improved medical facilities then so be it.

Personally I am hopeing that this will lead to increased acceptance of stemcell research, something that really is necessary.

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Kalien
:rofl: :lmao:

I don't think its such a problem though. The fact is that if it results in a=improved medical facilities then so be it.

Personally I am hopeing that this will lead to increased acceptance of stemcell research, something that really is necessary.

I prefer human stem cell research to messing with animal's DNA. Science is scary, so many people capable of abusing it :(

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Lizardian_guy

A step closer to curing horrible illnesses.

Also, saying it is "15% human" is misleading. That's like calling someone who had a pig heart transplanted in them to be "10% pig" or something.

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Denzanrom

I don't know about this. Aren't there people who take on some of their organ donor's behaviour? Like that biker guy who got an old lady's kidney and started knitting or that man who started cooking like his wife?

What will it be like for those who have those half-human organs from sheep?

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