Atlantis obviously they blew it up

[crystal sage]

...Here's some more interesting...validating information that has been echoed at other sites....

If you look up Vitrified Ruins in France, Turkey and the Middle East...and the rest of the world... mention of inexplicable extreme heat used to fuse rock... glass... Nuclear???

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/720501/posts

"With 250,000 men defending a fort, we are talking about a huge army in a very organised society. This is not a bunch of fur-wearing Picts with spears defending a fort from marauding bands of hunter-gatherers. The questions remain, though. What huge army might have occupied these cliffside forts by the sea or lake entrances? And what massive maritime power were these people unsuccessfully defending themselves against?

The forts on the western coast of Scotland are reminiscent of the mysterious clifftop forts in the Aran Islands on the west coast of Ireland. Here we truly have shades of the Atlantis story, with a powerful naval fleet attacking and conquering its neighbours in a terrible war. It has been theorised that the terrible battles of the Atlantis story took place in Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England--however, in the case of the Scottish vitrified forts it looks as if these were the losers of a war, not the victors. And defeat can be seen across the land: the war dykes in Sussex, the vitrified forts of Scotland, the utter collapse and disappearance of the civilisation that built these things. What long-ago Armageddon destroyed ancient Scotland?

In ancient times there was a substance known through writings as Greek fire. This was some sort of ancient napalm bomb that was hurled by catapult and could not be put out. Some forms of Greek fire were even said to burn under water and were therefore used in naval battles. (The actual composition of Greek fire is unknown, but it must have contained chemicals such as phosphorus, pitch, sulphur or other flammable chemicals.)

Could a form of Greek fire have been responsible for the vitrification? While ancient astronaut theorists may believe that extraterrestrials with their atomic weapons vitrified these walls, it seems more likely that they are the result of a man-made apocalypse of a chemical nature. With siege machines, battleships and Greek fire, did a vast flotilla storm the huge forts and eventually burn them down in a hellish blaze?

The evidence of the vitrified forts is clear: some hugely successful and organised civilisation was living in Scotland, England and Wales in prehistoric times, circa 1000 BC or more, and was building gigantic structures including forts. This apparently was a maritime civilisation that prepared itself for naval warfare as well as other forms of attack."

Edited April 12, 2007 by crystal sage

[The Gremlin]

interesting theory about the vitrified forts.

found this info u might find interesting....it attempts to explain things in another manner...

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Vitrified_Forts

note the bits....

They have not been found in England or Wales.

The method by which the fusion of such extensive fortifications was produced has excited much conjecture. Williams maintained that the builders found out, either during the process of smelting bog-ore, or whilst offering sacrifices, the power of fire in vitrifying stone, and that they utilized this method to cement and strengthen their defences. This view has been keenly controverted, and it has been suggested that the vitrified summits were not forts but the craters of extinct volcanoes, an hypothesis long since abandoned; that they are not so much forts as vitrified sites, and that the vitrescence was produced by fires lighted during times of invasion, or in religious celebrations; and, lastly, that if they were forts they must originally have been built of wood and stone, and that their present appearance is due to their being set on fire by a besieging enemy. The theory of Williams has, with modifications, been accepted by the principal authorities. It is supported by the following facts: (1) The idea of strengthening walls by means of fire is not singular, or confined to a distinct race or area, as is proved by the burnt-earth enclosure of Aztalan, in Wisconsin, and the vitrified stone monuments of the Mississippi valley. (2) Many of the Primary rocks, particularly the schists, gneisses and traps, which contain large quantities of potash and soda, can be readily fused in the open air by means of wood fires - the alkali of the wood serving in some measure as a flux. (3) The walls are chiefly vitrified at the weakest points, the naturally inaccessible parts being unvitrified. (4) When the forts have been placed on materials practically infusible, as on the quartzose conglomerates of the Old Red Sandstone, as at Craig Phadraic, and on the limestones of Dun Mac Uisneachain, pieces of fusible rocks have been selected and carried to the top from a considerable distance. (5) The vitrified walls of the Scottish forts are invariably formed of small stones which could be easily acted upon by fire, whereas the outer ramparts, which are not vitrified, are built of large blocks. (6) Many of the continental forts are so constructed that the fire must have been applied internally, and at the time when the structure was being erected. (7) Daubree, in an analysis which he made on vitrified materials taken from four French forts, and which he submitted to the Academy of Paris in February 1881, found the presence of natron in such great abundance that he inferred that sea-salt was used to facilitate fusion. (8) In Scandinavia, where there are hundreds of ordinary forts, and where for centuries a system of signal fires was enforced by law, no trace of vitrifaction has yet been detected.

....you have to admit it does seem more plausable than atlantean wars.

[crystal sage]

http://www.space-2001.net/html/nuclear.html

http://s8int.com/atomic1.html

http://s8int.com/atomic2.html

"As a matter of fact, many people today know that the reactor is a relic from a prehistoric civilization. It's probable that two billion years ago there was a fairly advanced civilization living at a place now called Oklo.

This civilization was technologically superior to today's civilization. Compared to this huge "natural" nuclear reactor, our current nuclear reactors are far less impressive. The question is: why did such a highly advanced civilization disappear? That's something to ponder about.

The textbook of Basic Radioactive Chemistry (C. Claire ed.) used by Tsinghua university has the following paragraph: "The natural uranium in the Oklo mine in Gabon, West Africa, contains an abnormal amount of U235. It is as low as 0.29%, rather than the normal 0.72%. This means that many self-sustained nuclear fission chain reactions took place at this mine about two billion years ago.

Thirteen nuclear reactors existed in prehistoric periods along the 200-metre mine bed, and they were comparable to the modern nuclear reactor in power and heat combustion. This mine had the capability of enabling self-sustained nuclear chain reactions...." This discovery, that shocked the entire scientific community in 1972, has already been forgotten by people today."..Pure Insight.org "

.... and further down in that same site....

"These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on par with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At one site, Soviet scholars found a skeleton which had a radioactive level 50 times greater than normal.

Other cities have been found in northern India that show indications of explosions of great magnitude. One such city, found between the Ganges and the mountains of Rajmahal, seems to have been subjected to intense heat. Huge masses of walls and foundations of the ancient city are fused together, literally vitrified! And since there is no indication of a volcanic eruption at Mohenjo-Daro or at the other cities, the intense heat to melt clay vessels can only be explained by an atomic blast or some other unknown weapon.The cities were wiped out entirely.

While the skeletons have been carbon-dated to 2500 BC, we must keep in mind that carbon-dating involves measuring the amount of radiation left. When atomic explosions are involved, that makes then seem much younger. "

Edited April 12, 2007 by crystal sage

[Atlantis Rises]

Every civilization in history will shown a great catastrophe in one way or another. How we intrepret our findings determine its importance.

[Harte]

Thirteen nuclear reactors existed in prehistoric periods along the 200-metre mine bed, and they were comparable to the modern nuclear reactor in power and heat combustion. This mine had the capability of enabling self-sustained nuclear chain reactions...." This discovery, that shocked the entire scientific community in 1972, has already been forgotten by people today."..Pure Insight.org "

.... and further down in that same site....

I don't see the point. When radioactive material is at critical mass, nuclear reactions occur. So what? This is ongoing deep inside the Earth's mantle. Why would we be surprised to find evidence that it has occured in other places where nuclear material was at critical mass?

It's extremely obvious that these reactions have occured in a natural setting. After all, if you are going to get power from nuclear reactions, you can't just stand there and let it react. You have to have a mechanism for transferring the heat energy and translating that heat energy into another form. For us it is translated into mechanical form via turbines, and then into electrical potential via dynamos. IOW, there would have to be some kind of evidence of energy transfer/translation apparatus. There's not. There's not even evidence that any of these reactions were exposed, they took place deep within the ground.

"These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on par with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At one site, Soviet scholars found a skeleton which had a radioactive level 50 times greater than normal.

Other cities have been found in northern India that show indications of explosions of great magnitude. One such city, found between the Ganges and the mountains of Rajmahal, seems to have been subjected to intense heat. Huge masses of walls and foundations of the ancient city are fused together, literally vitrified! And since there is no indication of a volcanic eruption at Mohenjo-Daro or at the other cities, the intense heat to melt clay vessels can only be explained by an atomic blast or some other unknown weapon.The cities were wiped out entirely.

While the skeletons have been carbon-dated to 2500 BC, we must keep in mind that carbon-dating involves measuring the amount of radiation left. When atomic explosions are involved, that makes then seem much younger. "

Since the other day I was berated for "cutting and pasting," even though all I quoted was from people that were supporting what I said, I'm just gonna say this here without any documentation or supporting evidence:

The Mohen Daro story was made-up. There never were any radioactive skeletons found there. In fact, when the skeletons in question were found, there was no means for measuring radiation known to mankind. There is also no evidence there of "intense heat." The entire thing was fabricated to support the idea of some ancient nuclear war, supposedly documented in the Mahabarata, and the Mahabarata doesn't even actually document this. But, it sold some books, that's for sure.

Harte

Edited April 12, 2007 by Harte

[crystal sage]

I don't see the point. When radioactive material is at critical mass, nuclear reactions occur. So what? This is ongoing deep inside the Earth's mantle. Why would we be surprised to find evidence that it has occured in other places where nuclear material was at critical mass?

It's extremely obvious that these reactions have occured in a natural setting. After all, if you are going to get power from nuclear reactions, you can't just stand there and let it react. You have to have a mechanism for transferring the heat energy and translating that heat energy into another form. For us it is translated into mechanical form via turbines, and then into electrical potential via dynamos. IOW, there would have to be some kind of evidence of energy transfer/translation apparatus. There's not. There's not even evidence that any of these reactions were exposed, they took place deep within the ground.

It could have decomposed by now.... or been blown up!!!

Since the other day I was berated for "cutting and pasting," even though all I quoted was from people that were supporting what I said, I'm just gonna say this here without any documentation or supporting evidence:

The Mohen Daro story was made-up. There never were any radioactive skeletons found there. In fact, when the skeletons in question were found, there was no means for measuring radiation known to mankind. There is also no evidence there of "intense heat." The entire thing was fabricated to support the idea of some ancient nuclear war, supposedly documented in the Mahabarata, and the Mahabarata doesn't even actually document this. But, it sold some books, that's for sure.

Harte

http://www.20kweb.com/true_stories/evidenc...uclear_war.html

http://www.geocities.com/lavlesh/More_Abou..._city_found.htm

Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous

A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.

For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/War_in_Ancient_India.htm

http://www.thothweb.com/content-255.html

[sirfiroth]

Despite their defeat, they could have rebuilt if it weren't for their volcano erupting. If Thera had not erupted, the would would be a much different place today, I think. The U.S. would not be in control of the world - "these" people might? Alternate realities, parallel thinking.

dream on

Wrong place, Thera was not beyond the Gates of Hercules. Gribralter is considered to be the gates of Herclules if I am not mistaken.

The only place beyond the Gates of Hercules that fits the descrtiption is the Island of England. The only country in the world with a Mythical beginning Camelot. Places like Stonehenge and Averbury's stone circles speak volumes about a mystical land.

Egland the magical mystical land gets my vote.

[jaylemurph]

A lot of discussion in this (and the countless other threads about Atlantis) is whether or not Gibraltar really was the Pillars of Hercules.

I think it was, but I have nothing to prove about Atlantis existing.

I also think the whole Arthur mythos grew up in the middle of the first millennium CE, and in France, so I don't think they were thinking about Atlantis.

And there are stone circles all throughout Europe -- Brittany, Iberia, Malta. At least one person has constructed a European stone-circle-building culture based on the wide-spread lands with them.

--Jaylemurph

[Harte]

Crystal Sage,

At the risk of being accused of some kind of "panicky search then cut and paste job," as if I were afraid to be called wrong, I'll go ahead and try to help you in your misunderstanding here with some real, actual statements of fact, backed up by documentation via quotes and links to various sources on the internet.

http://www.20kweb.com/true_stories/evidenc...uclear_war.html

http://www.geocities.com/lavlesh/More_Abou..._city_found.htm

Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous

A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.

That's just a lie. But you'll see further down in this post that the area is radioactive, but for very different, and more sinister, reasons.

From your geocities.com website:

The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

This "quote from the Mahabharata" never actually appears in the Mahabharata. I know you (and others here) probably don't want to believe this, so here's a link:

The Mahabharata

Go check for yourself. But before you do, first take note of the title page. See where it says "translated by Kisari Mohan Ganguli" and "published between 1883 and 1896?" Good, because now I want you to read the very next section on the geocities.com website you linked us to:

Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. "The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees," says Ganguli.

"Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people's hair falling out."

Do you find it the least bit odd that a long dead "historian" (he was not a historian) would offer a "comment" to the author of an article supposedly written in 1992? If not, would you please explain to me how a person that lived in the 19th century would know that a nuclear blast should rightly be described as a mushroom cloud, 50 years before the first atomic explosion, and how he could possibly be an apologist for the ancient author of the Mahabarata who, knowing no better, would refer to the mushroom cloud as "openings of giant parasols?" BTW, the parasol thing doesn't appear in the Mahabarata either.

Now, let's have a look at the next claim from your geocities link:

Archeologist Francis Taylor says that etchings in some nearby temples he has managed to translate suggest that they prayed to be spared from the great light that was coming to lay ruin to the city. "It's so mid-boggling to imagine that some civilization had nuclear technology before we did. The radioactive ash adds credibility to the ancient Indian records that describe atomic warfare."

There is no such archaeologist "Francis Taylor." I looked for him several years ago. There is a Francis Taylor, apparently not an archaeologist - not that that is some kind of insult or something - that heads up an amateur archaeology group in England, but that group, like many amateur archaeology groups, is concerned solely with local archaeological issues in England.

I challenge you, and anyone elase interested, to find this "Archaeologist Francis Taylor" anywhere else but in copied and pasted clones of this internet fantasy story anywhere on the web. I'd start at Google Scholar, if I were you. There is no "Archaeologist" that has not published a research paper.

From the next section at tour linked-to geocities page:

There is evidence that the Rama empire (now India) was devastated by nuclear war. The Indus valley is now the Thar desert, and the site of the radioactive ash found west of Jodhpur is around there.

Consider these verses from the ancient (6500 BC at the latest) Mahabharata:

Total crapola. The earliest estimates for the origin of the core of the Mahabharata, called the Jaya, date it to only the 9th Century BC. That would be around the year 1000 BC. The author of your article professes to know that the Mahabharata is six an a half times older than experts say! Now, anything's possible, I suppose. But if some author wants to make this claim, without even a whit of supporting evidence, and the claim is in direct conflict with what experts (Hindu experts, BTW) say, then it's perfectly okay for me to make the following claim:

"I wrote the Mahabharata myself. I did it in the year 1,750,000,004 BC. And I didn't mean for it to describe any nuclear war."

Here's the oft-quoted portion of the Mahabharata that the author of this article referred to earlier:

...a single projectile

Charged with all the power of the Universe.

An incandescent column of smoke and flame

As bright as the thousand suns

Rose in all its splendour...

a perpendicular explosion

with its billowing smoke clouds...

...the cloud of smoke

rising after its first explosion

formed into expanding round circles

like the opening of giant parasols...

..it was an unknown weapon,

An iron thunderbolt,

A gigantic messenger of death,

Which reduced to ashes

The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

...The corpses were so burned

As to be unrecognisable.

The hair and nails fell out;

Pottery broke without apparent cause,

And the birds turned white.

After a few hours

All foodstuffs were infected...

...to escape from this fire

The soldiers threw themselves in streams

To wash themselves and their equipment.

Again, as I said, these words, though they appear to be quoted directly from the Mahabharata, cannot be found in the Mahabharata.

More from your linked site:

When excavations of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro reached the street level, they discovered skeletons scattered about the cities, many holding hands and sprawling in the streets as if some instant, horrible doom had taken place. People were just lying, unburied, in the streets of the city. And these skeletons are thousands of years old, even by traditional archaeological standards. What could cause such a thing? Why did the bodies not decay or get eaten by wild animals? Furthermore, there is no apparent cause of a physically violent death.

These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on par with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At one site, Soviet scholars found a skeleton which had a radioactive level 50 times greater than normal.

-snip-

Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people.

Excavations in Mohenjo Daro "reached the street level" in the 1930's. These excavations at Harappa and Mohenjo Daro unearthed cities that date to about 2600 BC. This date for the cities does not rely solely on radiometric techniques, as your site states, where, it claims, "While the skeletons have been carbon-dated to 2500 BC, we must keep in mind that carbon-dating involves measuring the amount of radiation left. When atomic explosions are involved, that makes then seem much younger. " That's just pure nonsense, since there is no radiation involved. The remains are not, in other words, radioactive.

If anyone's interested, here's a link to a collection of photos taken at Mohenjo Daro put up by today's leading expert on ancient Indus:

http://www.mohenjodaro.net/

For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region.

You (or whoever wrote this - I wish you'd use the "quote" function, Crystal Sage, to break out what you write from what you're only quoting) are absolutely correct here. The state off Rajasthan in India is quite contaminated by nuclear waste and materials which came from the Rajasthan Atomic Power Station. India has been quite lax in regulating the handling of nuclear waste and in regulating the operation of it's nuclear power industry in general:

Dhirendra Sharma, who used to teach Science Technology at the Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi, informs us that `in India an estimated 300 incidents of a serious nature have occurred, causing radiation leaks and damage to workers. These have so far remained official secrets... A major mishap in Tarapur in 1979 resulted in thousands of litres of irradiated water gushing out from the reactor. But the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission reluctantly acknowledged only a "pinhole" leak.'

In another serious incident a reprocessing plant at Tarapur was closed down due to contamination. It is reported that at least three persons died in the `inert' chamber inside and more than 3,000 workers have been exposed to non-permissible doses of radiation. The Madras Atomic Power Station Unit-1 at Kalpakkam was reported to have suffered an explosion soon after it was commissioned in July 1984. The Rajasthan Atomic Power Station Unit-1 had to be shut down. More than 2,000 workers were exposed to excess radiation and 300 had to be hospitalized.

-snip-

Surendra Gadekar, leading light of Anumukti, a Gandhian nuclear resistance group, points out that the nuclear dream is really a nightmare. `The scientists and bureaucrats in charge of our nuclear program are above accountability,' he laments. He and his doctor wife Sangamitra investigated the condition of villagers at Rawatbhatta in Rajasthan, where they discovered gross radiation-related deformities.

This is a story told to Surendra Gadekar. One day in Narora a worker with a geiger counter went to take tea in the canteen. His geiger counter suddenly went crazy. On investigating he found that the radioactivity was coming from the fire used for preparing the tea. Further investigation led to the discovery that the wood being burnt had originally been used for scaffolding inside the plant, and had got contaminated and hence should have been stored as low-level waste. Instead it had been sold to a contractor, who had fortunately sold it back to the canteen: hence this sordid practice of how the establishment deals with its waste was detected.

Very disquieting, but not as disturbing as the silly idea of some alien nuclear war occuring on Earth.

More from your geocities webpage about this "ancient nuclear blast evidence":

One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

This should have been a dead giveaway. How could a ten thousand year old nuke blast zone still be so "intensely radioactive?" I mean, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki are today thriving cities. And the radiation from their bombings is practically nonexistent, only sixty years later.

There are no radioactive remains from nuclear blasts that last 12,000 years and still put out radiation above the normal background radiation found anywhere on Earth.

Lastly, if you look into this story deep enough, you'll find it originally attributed to a magazine called "The World Island Review" from January 1992. As it is at this webpage at Rense.com from the year 2000:

http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm.

The problem is, this magazine apparently never existed either. Anyone looking into this, let me know if you find out differently.

Harte

[Pax Unum]

Harte, Good job of researching...

[crystal sage]

http://www.isleofavalon.co.uk/history/ancientavalon.html

Maybe amatuer archeologist???

http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19521229,00.html

http://beehive.thisisdorset.co.uk/default....mp;PageID=81608

http://www.cr.nps.gov/archeology/kennewick/c14memo.htm

http://www.electroasylum.com/elgin/bio.htm

"the very essence of the archaeological character and temper'. Knight was a leading member of the Society of Dilettanti, elegant young men who possessed both taste and money all wrapped up in an arrogant self-confidence. Knight was their self-appointed arbiter of taste, their touchstone of all that was fashionable in the world of art. It may well be that Knight, as

Francis Taylor suggests,

was the very model of the intransigent academic, 'for not even a statesman at a peace conference is more unable to repudiate a previously held opinion than the academic potentate who passes as authority in his particular field'. But it may also be that he was simply loyal--over-loyal, perhaps--to his friends in the Dilettanti and could not bear to think that their pretty antiquities were about to be shadowed by those collected, at one swoop, by a Scottish laird-- antiquities believed by many to be from the hands of Phidias himself.

*****************

Amazon.com: Francis Taylor: Books

Fifty Centuries of Art Selections and text by Francis Henry Taylor Director ... Babel's tower: The dilemma of the modern museum by Francis Henry Taylor ...

www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Francis%20Taylor&page=1 - 130k - Cached - Similar pages

http://www.questia.com/library/encyclopedi...jsp?l=T&p=1

TAYLOR, FRANCIS HENRY

1903U+201357, American museum director, b. Philadelphia, studied throughout Europe. He began his museum career as assistant curator (1927U+201328) and then curator of medieval art (1928U+201331) of the Philadelphia Museum of Art. As director of the Worcester (Mass.) Art Museum (1931U+201340; 1955U+201357) he did much to stimulate public interest in the museum. As director of the Metropolitan Museum (1940U+201355) he developed his theory of the museum as an institution of active public service, not simply a repository of art. His writings include Babel's Tower (1945); The Taste of Angels (1948), a history of art collecting; Fifty Centuries of Art (1954); and Pierpont Morgan as Collector and Patron (1957).

http://www.google.co.uk/custom?domains=Isl...A1%3B&hl=en

Edited April 13, 2007 by crystal sage

[Harte]

http://www.isleofavalon.co.uk/history/ancientavalon.html

Maybe amatuer archeologist???

http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19521229,00.html

http://beehive.thisisdorset.co.uk/default....mp;PageID=81608

http://www.cr.nps.gov/archeology/kennewick/c14memo.htm

Sorry, but I couldn't get this cr.nps.gov website to load. Probably it's my slow dail-up connection. So, maybe there's something there I should know, but I guess I'll never know, unless you quote it to me.

http://www.electroasylum.com/elgin/bio.htm

"the very essence of the archaeological character and temper'. Knight was a leading member of the Society of Dilettanti, elegant young men who possessed both taste and money all wrapped up in an arrogant self-confidence. Knight was their self-appointed arbiter of taste, their touchstone of all that was fashionable in the world of art. It may well be that Knight, as

Francis Taylor suggests,

was the very model of the intransigent academic, 'for not even a statesman at a peace conference is more unable to repudiate a previously held opinion than the academic potentate who passes as authority in his particular field'. But it may also be that he was simply loyal--over-loyal, perhaps--to his friends in the Dilettanti and could not bear to think that their pretty antiquities were about to be shadowed by those collected, at one swoop, by a Scottish laird-- antiquities believed by many to be from the hands of Phidias himself.

*****************

Amazon.com: Francis Taylor: Books

Fifty Centuries of Art Selections and text by Francis Henry Taylor Director ... Babel's tower: The dilemma of the modern museum by Francis Henry Taylor ...

www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Francis%20Taylor&page=1 - 130k - Cached - Similar pages

http://www.questia.com/library/encyclopedi...jsp?l=T&p=1

TAYLOR, FRANCIS HENRY

1903U+201357, American museum director, b. Philadelphia, studied throughout Europe. He began his museum career as assistant curator (1927U+201328) and then curator of medieval art (1928U+201331) of the Philadelphia Museum of Art. As director of the Worcester (Mass.) Art Museum (1931U+201340; 1955U+201357) he did much to stimulate public interest in the museum. As director of the Metropolitan Museum (1940U+201355) he developed his theory of the museum as an institution of active public service, not simply a repository of art. His writings include Babel's Tower (1945); The Taste of Angels (1948), a history of art collecting; Fifty Centuries of Art (1954); and Pierpont Morgan as Collector and Patron (1957).

http://www.google.co.uk/custom?domains=Isl...A1%3B&hl=en

Yes, maybe an amateur archaeologist. The Francis Taylor on your Time Cover link is the Art Historian that wrote Babels' Tower and The Taste of Angels. He was a semi-well known American Art Museum Curator, not in any way an Archaeologist. Also somewhat problematic is the fact that this man died in 1957, yet the story dates to 1992. But, I suppose if the translator of the Mahabharata can rise from the dead to provide commentary to the author, all the way from back in the 19th Century, then what's a few decades of death for "Archaeologist" Francis Taylor, right?

Either that, or the author (you know, the guy that worked for an imaginary magazine back in 1992,) was a medium and he got this story from a couple of deaders.

Anyway, that's the reason I dismissed him as a possibility back when I was researching this story a couple of years ago.

The other Francis Taylor you found is the one that I held out some possibility of being the one from the story, though, like I said, I doubt that this one is an Archaeologist either, considering the only place his name appears is on the publication of an amateur archaeology group in England (didn't I already cover this?) and there only as the "Stonehenge representative" and the "Website Editor:"

The current committee, appointed at the 2006 AGM, are :

President - Clare Conybeare

Secretary - Trevor Steptoe

Treasurer - Janet Weatherley

-snip-

Isle of Wight representative - Owen Cambridge

Wiltshire representative - Gill Swanton

Stonehenge representative - Francis Taylor

National CBA Trustee - Dr Rowan Whimster...

-snip-

President : Clare Conybeare

clare.conybeare@btopenworld.com

Secretary : Trevor Steptoe

t.steptoe@virgin.net

Treasurer : Janet Weatherley

janetcooper858@hotmail.com

Membership Secretary :Maureen Putnam

maureen@roseivy.demon.co.uk

Newsletter Editor : Jennifer Lowe

tvas@tvas.co.uk

Website editor : Francis Taylor

frstaylor@aol.com

Please contact the Secretary if you wish to get in touch with any of the other committee members.

(my emphases)

Source: Council for British Archaeology - The Committee

Note that Taylor's email address is provided. I noticed this when I originally found him (or maybe it's a her, how should I know - the original story says Taylor is a man.) Perhaps you should contact Taylor and find out for yourself. I considered it but never bothered, since I could find nothing at all in the publication of this group about anything having to do with India and I thought I shouldn't bother Taylor with this idiocy.

If you decide to contact Taylor, please note the admonition above to contact the Secretary of the group first.

Now, regarding the amateur status i mentioned, here's the mission statement from that group:

The Council for British Archaeology was formed in 1944 and is a national organisation which works to advance the study and care of Britain's historic environment, and to improve public awareness of Britain's past. It brings together those for whom archaeology is an interest, an active pastime, or a career. It campaigns for your heritage, promotes archaeology in education, encourages participation in archaeological activities and provides information. It also supports local, regional and national archaeological societies and works with other bodies in environmental conservation.

The CBA welcomes everyone with a concern for our historic environment. Your support provides the resources to fulfil our aims in the field of education, conservation and information provision. It also strengthens the profile of archaeology in the minds of decision makers and gives a voice to Britain's past.

(my emphases)

British all the way. Note the conspicuous absence of anything regarding the past heritage of India.

Lastly, I feel I must thank you for at least trying to look into this ridiculous claim. I take it that perhaps the story is now sticking in your craw. This is good. You shouldn't swallow everything people write on the internet.

Harte

[Pax Unum]

Sorry, but I couldn't get this cr.nps.gov website to load. Probably it's my slow dail-up connection. So, maybe there's something there I should know, but I guess I'll never know, unless you quote it to me.

Harte

I tried the link and it didn't load for me either, and I have high speed cable...

[fantazum]

Crystal Sage,

At the risk of being accused of some kind of "panicky search then cut and paste job," as if I were afraid to be called wrong, I'll go ahead and try to help you in your misunderstanding here with some real, actual statements of fact, backed up by documentation via quotes and links to various sources on the internet.

That's just a lie. But you'll see further down in this post that the area is radioactive, but for very different, and more sinister, reasons.

From your geocities.com website:

This "quote from the Mahabharata" never actually appears in the Mahabharata. I know you (and others here) probably don't want to believe this, so here's a link:

The Mahabharata

Go check for yourself. But before you do, first take note of the title page. See where it says "translated by Kisari Mohan Ganguli" and "published between 1883 and 1896?" Good, because now I want you to read the very next section on the geocities.com website you linked us to:

Do you find it the least bit odd that a long dead "historian" (he was not a historian) would offer a "comment" to the author of an article supposedly written in 1992? If not, would you please explain to me how a person that lived in the 19th century would know that a nuclear blast should rightly be described as a mushroom cloud, 50 years before the first atomic explosion, and how he could possibly be an apologist for the ancient author of the Mahabarata who, knowing no better, would refer to the mushroom cloud as "openings of giant parasols?" BTW, the parasol thing doesn't appear in the Mahabarata either.

Now, let's have a look at the next claim from your geocities link:

There is no such archaeologist "Francis Taylor." I looked for him several years ago. There is a Francis Taylor, apparently not an archaeologist - not that that is some kind of insult or something - that heads up an amateur archaeology group in England, but that group, like many amateur archaeology groups, is concerned solely with local archaeological issues in England.

I challenge you, and anyone elase interested, to find this "Archaeologist Francis Taylor" anywhere else but in copied and pasted clones of this internet fantasy story anywhere on the web. I'd start at Google Scholar, if I were you. There is no "Archaeologist" that has not published a research paper.

From the next section at tour linked-to geocities page:

Total crapola. The earliest estimates for the origin of the core of the Mahabharata, called the Jaya, date it to only the 9th Century BC. That would be around the year 1000 BC. The author of your article professes to know that the Mahabharata is six an a half times older than experts say! Now, anything's possible, I suppose. But if some author wants to make this claim, without even a whit of supporting evidence, and the claim is in direct conflict with what experts (Hindu experts, BTW) say, then it's perfectly okay for me to make the following claim:

"I wrote the Mahabharata myself. I did it in the year 1,750,000,004 BC. And I didn't mean for it to describe any nuclear war."

Here's the oft-quoted portion of the Mahabharata that the author of this article referred to earlier:

Again, as I said, these words, though they appear to be quoted directly from the Mahabharata, cannot be found in the Mahabharata.

More from your linked site:

Excavations in Mohenjo Daro "reached the street level" in the 1930's. These excavations at Harappa and Mohenjo Daro unearthed cities that date to about 2600 BC. This date for the cities does not rely solely on radiometric techniques, as your site states, where, it claims, "While the skeletons have been carbon-dated to 2500 BC, we must keep in mind that carbon-dating involves measuring the amount of radiation left. When atomic explosions are involved, that makes then seem much younger. " That's just pure nonsense, since there is no radiation involved. The remains are not, in other words, radioactive.

If anyone's interested, here's a link to a collection of photos taken at Mohenjo Daro put up by today's leading expert on ancient Indus:

http://www.mohenjodaro.net/

You (or whoever wrote this - I wish you'd use the "quote" function, Crystal Sage, to break out what you write from what you're only quoting) are absolutely correct here. The state off Rajasthan in India is quite contaminated by nuclear waste and materials which came from the Rajasthan Atomic Power Station. India has been quite lax in regulating the handling of nuclear waste and in regulating the operation of it's nuclear power industry in general:

Very disquieting, but not as disturbing as the silly idea of some alien nuclear war occuring on Earth.

More from your geocities webpage about this "ancient nuclear blast evidence":

This should have been a dead giveaway. How could a ten thousand year old nuke blast zone still be so "intensely radioactive?" I mean, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki are today thriving cities. And the radiation from their bombings is practically nonexistent, only sixty years later.

There are no radioactive remains from nuclear blasts that last 12,000 years and still put out radiation above the normal background radiation found anywhere on Earth.

Lastly, if you look into this story deep enough, you'll find it originally attributed to a magazine called "The World Island Review" from January 1992. As it is at this webpage at Rense.com from the year 2000:

http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm.

The problem is, this magazine apparently never existed either. Anyone looking into this, let me know if you find out differently.

Harte

I feel like Ive been nuked....

[The Gremlin]

dream on

Wrong place, Thera was not beyond the Gates of Hercules. Gribralter is considered to be the gates of Herclules if I am not mistaken.

The only place beyond the Gates of Hercules that fits the descrtiption is the Island of England. The only country in the world with a Mythical beginning Camelot. Places like Stonehenge and Averbury's stone circles speak volumes about a mystical land.

Egland the magical mystical land gets my vote.

Gibraltar is NOW considered to be the pillars of Heracles, but it was not always so. there are various candidates. As the Greek world view grew the 'goalposts' were moved appropriately.

Camelot is not a mythical begining of england, never was...in fact Arthur fought against the english......oh and England is not the name of the island....they are the british isles and incorporate Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England, and the isle of Mann has its own parliment too.

Stonehenge and other megalithic sites in britain predate 'england' and have nothing to do with the 'english' per se. There are many very wonderful sites in britain and indeed much of europe and north africa which are worthy of comparison and interest.

[itsnotoutthere]

i dont know if this theory has come about before , but i think atlantis was blown up, not by another race but by themselves, the atlanteans had everything an advantage technology and power, with this in mind they would have been a target to people who wanted it, eventually they would have lost some or a lot of their population, in my opinion i think they realiesed no matter where they went they would alway be targets because of their technology, so in the end they simply blew up atlantis and moved on, maybe they went to another place, who knows

i would like to know what you think of this thoeory, is it completly crazy or may it have some truth.

All well & good, but Atlantis is a myth.

[Princess Serenity]

All well & good, but Atlantis is a myth.

Maybe or maybe not. We just don't know yet. IF it was just nothing but a "story." People are still going to look for it. Either way. ^^

Edit: No offense. But everyone has their choice to believe in it or not.

Edited April 17, 2007 by MoonPrincess

[The Mule]

I'm weighing in with the "Santorini" theory...

[kehmet]

Listen carefully all.Atlantis was an allergory.Outside of Plato's writings there is no evidence that Atlantis existed.There are about seven or eight lines in his entire writings about Atlantis.Everyone wants to believe in a better world or utopia.He wrote about it.If one existed already then one can then stretch the truth to make it more interesting.Regardless,except for Plato's writings(which pertaining to Atlantis,he heard from a friend who heard from a friend........)there is no evidence that Atlantis ever existed.None.Atlantis was nothing more than active imagination and in modern times,overactive.Throw a deity in and you got a great tale.Just an allergory.Powerful people get stupid with power and suffer because of it.Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The end.All ocean bottoms have been entirely mapped and no Atlantis.Not even a bump.Plus not everything sinks.A whole country sinks and everything with it,come on.Once you get past the simple fact that Atlantis was a tall tale everything makes sense.

[Princess Serenity]

Listen carefully all.Atlantis was an allergory.Outside of Plato's writings there is no evidence that Atlantis existed.There are about seven or eight lines in his entire writings about Atlantis.Everyone wants to believe in a better world or utopia.He wrote about it.If one existed already then one can then stretch the truth to make it more interesting.Regardless,except for Plato's writings(which pertaining to Atlantis,he heard from a friend who heard from a friend........)there is no evidence that Atlantis ever existed.None.Atlantis was nothing more than active imagination and in modern times,overactive.Throw a deity in and you got a great tale.Just an allergory.Powerful people get stupid with power and suffer because of it.Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The end.All ocean bottoms have been entirely mapped and no Atlantis.Not even a bump.Plus not everything sinks.A whole country sinks and everything with it,come on.Once you get past the simple fact that Atlantis was a tall tale everything makes sense.

So? You're saying we should stop looking for it, because of the belief it doesn't exist? Good luck.

[crystal sage]

http://beehive.thisisdorset.co.uk/default....ome&ID=4275

The Council for British Archaeology was formed in 1944 and is a national organisation which works to advance the study and care of Britain's historic environment, and to improve public awareness of Britain's past. It brings together those for whom archaeology is an interest, an active pastime, or a career. It campaigns for your heritage, promotes archaeology in education, encourages participation in archaeological activities and provides information. It also supports local, regional and national archaeological societies and works with other bodies in environmental conservation.

http://www.sciforums.com/Can-some-sceptics...me-t-33278.html

Rick

03-01-04, 04:06 AM

Another curious sign of an ancient nuclear war in India is a giant crater near Bombay. The nearly circular 2,154-metre-diameter Lonar crater, located 400 kilometres northeast of Bombay and aged at less than 50,000 years old, could be related to nuclear warfare of antiquity. No trace of any meteoric material, etc., has been found at the site or in the vicinity, and this is the world's only known "impact" crater in basalt.

how do you know this?

anyways, my father once worked for ISRO and helped in launch of APPLE,he was engineer in that project.ISRO where he worked was then involved with weather phenomenon study.

He studied the site(via a studpid old rusty aircraft with his team mates from above daily).he used to fly over the site to make maps or something.The radioactivity on this site was abnormally high as he told me.I have been to the site myself.The site has immense level of compass varations.I dont know what it was,may be compass that i used was of low quality,but it kept moving to and fro near the lake. Anyway its a pretty place to visit,although mysterious enough to make you think.But hey! all of things happen for a reason.

bye!

03-15-04, 10:47 AM

Another thing that's kinda weird is that the man that invented the A-bomb, Openheimer, was fascinated by indian philosophy/bhagavad gita. Is that just a coincidence? Here's an interesting paper about Oppenheimer/ Indian Phiosophy: www.aps-pub.com/proceedings/jun00/Hijiya.pdf

http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts...erif-vedas.html

Renowned Thinkers Who Appreciated the Vedic Literatures

Although early indologists, in their missionary zeal, widely vilified the Vedas as primitive mythology, many of the worlds greatest thinkers admired the Vedas as great repositories of advanced knowledge and high thinking

Arthur Schopenhauer, the famed German philosopher and writer, wrote that: I "...encounter [in the Vedas] deep, original, lofty thoughts... suffused with a high and holy seriousness."

The well-known early American writer Ralph Waldo Emerson, read the Vedas daily. Emerson wrote: "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavat-Gita"

Henry David Thoreau said: "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita... in comparison with which... our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial."

So great were Emerson and Thoreau's appreciation of Vedantic literatures that they became known as the American transcendentalists. Their writings contain many thoughts from Vedic Philosophy.

Other famous personalities who spoke of the greatness of the Vedas were: Alfred North Whitehead (British mathematician, logician and philosopher), who stated that: "Vedanta is the most impressive metaphysics the human mind has conceived."

Julius Robert Oppenheimer, the principle developer of the atomic bomb, stated that "The Vedas are the greatest privilege of this century." During the explosion of the first atomic bomb, Oppenheimer quoted several Bhagavad-gita verses from the 11th chapter, such as:

"Death I am, cause of destruction of the worlds..."

When Oppenheimer was asked if this is the first nuclear explosion, he significantly replied: "Yes, in modern times," implying that ancient nuclear explosions may have previously occurred.

Lin Yutang, Chinese scholar and author, wrote that: "India was China's teacher in trigonometry, quadratic equations, grammar, phonetics... " and so forth.

Francois Voltaire stated: "... everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges."

From these statements we see that many renowned intellectuals believed that the Vedas provided the origin of scientific thought.

Regarding Francis Taylor... They could have misquoted the name...

He must have been working with someone else.. communicated with someone else..

Some one else would have looked at those same artifacts...

any other reports on this? there's Davenport and Vincenti

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13920_stones.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/243196/Vimanas-K...ng-Matchiens-VI

[meatwadmonk]

There is no scientific evidence of Atlantis, but in 1988 two Army helicopters flying over that area saw buildings under the water [they said it may also had been an illusion, they had no idea where Atlantis was located until they heard they were flying over the rumored waters later on that week].

[The Puzzler]

i quess some people like to pick and chose which part of Plato's story to believe and which to throw away because it shouldn't be taken word for word lol (kind of like religion these days HUH??)

Yes, like the part about super advanced technology - can someone show me where Plato wrote this because I have read both Timaeus and Critias now about 4000 times and I don't see it in there...............

[The Puzzler]

hey guys i know some of you may have read the timaeus and critias by plato...not just wiki pages...what do you think?

it seems that these books....available on the perseus project (google search 'perseus project', then go to 'classics' link on left, reduce no. of texts by clicking on the english results bar then scroll down to plato....).....these are the original sources of the myth of atlantis. Every other idea is based on or around these stories.

go on....try them, they're at least as exiting as any emerald tablet of thoth or whatever other fictional work about atlantis, and since their the source of our myth they should be given the time of day.....dont just limit yourselves to extracts people have copied and pasted to prove their arguments....they have to be viewed in their historical and cultural contexts.

Plato was trying to say something here, anyone know what it was?

when you read them try to see it from the perspective of an ancient greek....this is the difficult bit.

their world view, views of asia, africa, europe, the middle sea, the atlantic were all more limited than our own....it is possible that we go too far in our search.

That the civilisation referred to was probably what we call the minoan is quite credible, they did get bashed by Ionian greeks, Athens in solon and plato's days was one of the few great cities still populated by ionians after the dorian invasions....or migrations. there are plenty of other reasons to link the Creatans and inhabitants of Thera (Santorini) with a common culture.

Locating Atlantis has intrigued many, and there are a wide range of views. The pillars of hercules waypoint has mostly been identified with the straits of gibraltar... but there were other such gates located around the med. im sure there are websites that'll show where others are thought to have been. Sicily is one site, the bosphorus was said to have been another. there are others.

Theres plenty of fruitful discussion about atlantis just by focusing on the sources of the myth and its original author, but it seems that our imaginations are now better captured by 20th century renditions. That in itself speaks volumes for our desires, expectations, and tendency to update or revamp what we feel to be outdated.

Modern renditions of the atlantis myth says more about us than anything else.....and this may be a good thing, because after all that was exactly what atlantis was, a mirror.

anyone feelin this? or should i change my name to Hans Solo?

Yes, this is what anyone who wants to comment on Atlantis should do. I know I have read them (and read them) and half of this looney Atlantis stuff people come up, even on websites is just downright ridiculous.

'The closest Atlantis got to advanced technology is some plumbing and canals.

I am very interested myself in the core Plato work and have a theory (one of many) that the story lies in Plato's story of Solon, not Solon's story but Solon's life as a lawmaker. Actually it is 3 stories all wrapped up in a moral tale of truth and virtue and having a say on the state of the state, which is a double meaning in itself, meaning one's own state and the city state, one is the arrival of civilisation from Africa after the drying of the Sahara. Most importantly though it is Solon's story and Solon's life story intertwined. "so in accordance with Solon's story and his laws".

No one is very interested though.......probably because it lacks nuclear weapons and levitating devices..........

I do have many Atlantis threads though, very interesting to stick to the original narratives for sure.

One of my favourite parts is this:

One of our tribe, either because he thought so or to please Critias, said that in his judgment Solon was not only the wisest of men, but also the noblest of poets. The old man, as I very well remember, brightened up at hearing this and said, smiling: Yes, Amynander, if Solon had only, like other poets, made poetry the business of his life, and had completed the tale which he brought with him from Egypt, and had not been compelled, by reason of the factions and troubles which he found stirring in his own country when he came home, to attend to other matters, in my opinion he would have been as famous as Homer or Hesiod, or any poet.

I believe Plato, by telling Solon's story wanted to elevate him to the status of Homer, which I think he did, in leaps and bounds. Everyone knows Solon's story now........Plato made him more famous than any other poet, because Solon was more than a poet, he epitomised the ideal state to Plato.

Edited July 9, 2008 by weareallsuckers

[The Puzzler]

Plato doesn't mention anything about it being blown up, he says earthquakes, then it sunk. If the story was real wouldn't you think Solon would have included that part in his retelling of the story? Pretty major part of the whole scenario if indeed nuking happened. At least some mention of big clouds of smoke??