Plagues of Exodus

[Beckys_Mom]

BM!! Once again I can barely see to type for the tears of laughter! You should do stand up!

I do..a lot LMAO..each time i stand up..some bastd laughs LMAO yahooooooooooo look at the funny girl mommy..she is silly hee hee

[Beckys_Mom]

Yes....I know...Harte pointed that out to me earlier I hope that everyone can forgive me.

I would forgive you....honest!! LOL

[Beckys_Mom]

Thank you for the information and link Airika.

I always remember the Moses myth when I read another pro-population article, related to activist agendas claiming god is pro-life even going so far as to consider stem cells sacred. Yeah and to bad for those Egyptian males! In utero and out. But god is pro-life!

Yeah, I can read that. Page after page after page....

I don't understand how the image of god can be one of benevolence, when the pro-active image is one of intolerance and murderous violence. And it is murder, by definition. Murder (first degree)-The killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation ...

And then, when people commit violent acts. Kill gays, assault women, claiming it's by gods ordinance they do such grievous offense, those that claim to follow the same god say that's not their god telling those people that! Context! Indeed.

Reading the bible to me was like reading a Stephen King novel only I like steven king novels

[bornagainuhmanduh]

Reading the bible to me was like reading a Stephen King novel only I like steven king novels

But what if Steven King was God and ultimately your judge in the end?

[airika]

And then, when people commit violent acts. Kill gays, assault women, claiming it's by gods ordinance they do such grievous offense, those that claim to follow the same god say that's not their god telling those people that! Context! Indeed.

I have to agree. It clearly states in the bible, that all gay men are to be killed. All Adulterers are to be killed. All the first born sons of all of Egypt are to be killed. All murderers are to be killed. *sigh*......I guess there's never enough killing.

[Beckys_Mom]

But what if Steven King was God and ultimately your judge in the end?

Then I would say...WOW you are him..........then I must be allowed in to your heaven...cuz I read all your books.and liked them..and I own a few of your dvd's movies ..just ask my Gary he will vouch for me ner ner...now if you dont mind..im going on through God...which way to the mini bar??

[Shadow_Hill]

But what if Steven King was God and ultimately your judge in the end?

I would say "hello, please let me into King Land, I am your greatest fan but I promise not to tie you to a bed and hobble you".

[airika]

LOL BM!!....

I would like to pose this question to you, do you choose to NOT believe what the bible says about that because your "God" could never do such a thing? Or do you think the evidence of the volcanic eruption, or tectonic movements have provided?

[Pax Unum]

I voted natural occurences, because there is a great deal of evidence that supports it being natural. Even if there is a God, why would he punish people to prove a point to the pharoah! How could he take sides like that, which he seems to do so much in the OT. I've read that most of these plagues could occur due to a volcanic eruption, and tectonic activity. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that a huge volcanic eruption occurred on the Greek Island of Santorini around 1500 BC, which fits in with the timeline.

yeah, I agree...

[Beckys_Mom]

LOL BM!!....

I would like to pose this question to you, do you choose to NOT believe what the bible says about that because your "God" could never do such a thing? Or do you think the evidence of the volcanic eruption, or tectonic movements have provided?

I was raised to follow the chrsitian God..to never question the bible..........but see I am smart enough to know whats right for me..and took the time and re-read a lot of the stories and they didn't make sense........I believe God is what people say he is - ALL LOVING...ALL POWERFUL..and ALL MIGHTY..........YES only I will understand what that means...I WONT believe the trash man has written...I do believe God is there..but not how man has protrayed him...I refuse to believe that crap..it's like thay cant make up their minds..one min he is Mr Jackal and the next he is Hyde WTF?? A wolf like character in sheeps clothing..............come on LOL and then I am told...but BM you shouldnt look into the harshness like that...here take these , they are rose tinted glasses, wear them and see it how I see it...ummmmm take your rose tinted glasses and shove keep them yourself .. this is WHY a lot of people turn away from chrsitianity..du to this bible and how its made God out to be a killer

Some have said (wearing rose tinted $1.99 a pair glasses) but killing is not the same as murder........WTF?? you kill someone (with intent to kill) ..you have indeed committed murder

BUT wait.the 10 commandments says Thou Shalt not kill.....................later changed to thou shall not commit murder...<--fixed for rose tinted glasses get em while you can

I say..for anyone who reads my posts....keep your rose tinted glasses on...and you will think BM is fantastic!!!!! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee lol

*hands out the rose tinted glasses..one for you..and one for you..and you..here ya go airka & uhmanduh two for the price of one*

[airika]

I was raised to follow the chrsitian God..to never question the bible..........but see I am smart enough to know whats right for me..and took the time and re-read a lot of the stories and they didn't make sense........I believe God is what people say he is - ALL LOVING...ALL POWERFUL..and ALL MIGHTY..........YES only I will understand what that means...I WONT believe the trash man has written...I do believe God is there..but not how man has protrayed him...I refuse to believe that crap..it's like thay cant make up their minds..one min he is Mr Jackal and the next he is Hyde WTF?? A wolf like character in sheeps clothing..............come on LOL and then I am told...but BM you shouldnt look into the harshness like that...here take these , they are rose tinted glasses, wear them and see it how I see it...ummmmm take your rose tinted glasses and shove keep them yourself .. this is WHY a lot of people turn away from chrsitianity..du to this bible and how its made God out to be a killer

Some have said (wearing rose tinted $1.99 a pair glasses) but killing is not the same as murder........WTF?? you kill someone (with intent to kill) ..you have indeed committed murder

BUT wait.the 10 commandments says Thou Shalt not kill.....................later changed to thou shall not commit murder...<--fixed for rose tinted glasses get em while you can

I say..for anyone who reads my posts....keep your rose tinted glasses on...and you will think BM is fantastic!!!!! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee lol

*hands out the rose tinted glasses..one for you..and one for you..and you..here ya go airka & uhmanduh two for the price of one*

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have to agree with most of your post. The part that I don't quite agree with, is the knowledge of the actual existance of God. *puts on rose tinted glasses and walks out*

[thaphantum]

When i 1st read the story of Moses..and how God went to such desperate measures to convince a king to let a few people go..I thought it was madness and evil

One of which was killing of all the 1st born lil children WTF?? Why would God need to do this just to convince some idiot to let a few people free??

The allmighty God picks up a copy cat killing spree and kills 1st borns...who where innocent..but hey he wanted to convince the king to let some others wonder the desert for 40 years WTF??

Killing first born...heck this was going on when Moses was just a boy ...even when Jesus was just a baby...kill all 1st born...then God does it too...was it a bibical trend??

And I am supposed to believe bibles stories like this....................WHY??

God as a mindless killer...killing all the lil first borns to prove a stuipid point................I refuse to believe God would do this

screw that crap

you sure do love the kids... lol...

the interesting thing is... i didn't read from ANYONE about how God sent Moses and Aaron to ask the Pharoah nicely FIRST... he said no... then moses made his staff turn into a snake... which the magicians copies and their snakes were eaten...

also... God sent Moses over and over again... to ASK pharoah to let the people go... pharoah didn't... so each thing go progressivly worse... until the death of the first born... in which they were spared the pain and misery of this life... and then pharaoh finally got the point... "maybe i shouldn't screw with God... and just let His people go"

even after all that... pharoah got his army together and went after them to kill them... and God wiped them out... but nobody seems to put that much of it into perspective...

and through my reading of the Bible... i've NEVER ran across any part in the Bible where God kills without reason...

it's usually those who haven't read the story that points things like that out... or if you have read the story... you ignore eveyrone else's actions... and just focus on what God did...

[thaphantum]

I was raised to follow the chrsitian God..to never question the bible..........but see I am smart enough to know whats right for me..and took the time and re-read a lot of the stories and they didn't make sense........I believe God is what people say he is - ALL LOVING...ALL POWERFUL..and ALL MIGHTY..........YES only I will understand what that means...I WONT believe the trash man has written...I do believe God is there..but not how man has protrayed him...I refuse to believe that crap..it's like thay cant make up their minds..one min he is Mr Jackal and the next he is Hyde WTF?? A wolf like character in sheeps clothing..............come on LOL and then I am told...but BM you shouldnt look into the harshness like that...here take these , they are rose tinted glasses, wear them and see it how I see it...ummmmm take your rose tinted glasses and shove keep them yourself .. this is WHY a lot of people turn away from chrsitianity..du to this bible and how its made God out to be a killer

Some have said (wearing rose tinted $1.99 a pair glasses) but killing is not the same as murder........WTF?? you kill someone (with intent to kill) ..you have indeed committed murder

BUT wait.the 10 commandments says Thou Shalt not kill.....................later changed to thou shall not commit murder...<--fixed for rose tinted glasses get em while you can

I say..for anyone who reads my posts....keep your rose tinted glasses on...and you will think BM is fantastic!!!!! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee lol

*hands out the rose tinted glasses..one for you..and one for you..and you..here ya go airka & uhmanduh two for the price of one*

so your saying that any solider that ever went to war are just a bunch of mass murderers correct? they go to war with intent to kill...

the Hebrew word does indeed imply mean murder... it was changed to say kill by modern society...

[GoddessWhispers]

But what if Steven King was God and ultimately your judge in the end?

I for one would be saying, is there still time to join a book club!?

And Stephen said: Judge not lest ye read, "Carrie"!

[airika]

and through my reading of the Bible... i've NEVER ran across any part in the Bible where God kills without reason...

it's usually those who haven't read the story that points things like that out... or if you have read the story... you ignore eveyrone else's actions... and just focus on what God did...

Are you kidding me???????? (sorry GW, I know you hate that)

You feel that it's OK to murder a bunch of little innocent children, just because the pharoah said no? With simple minded insinuations such as this, then one could say, My neighbor hit his wife, so God should kill all the kids in the neighborhood. It's just as assnine.

[thaphantum]

You should have included "None of the above", since there is no mention in Egyptian records (or any other nation's records) of these plagues. They are only mentioned in a book of mythology that wasn't written until the 6th century BCE.

if anyone is familiar with egyptian mythology... you would realize that the plagues are an attack on some of the egyptian gods... showing how powerless they really were in the face of the Hebrew God...

http://www.answers.com/topic/plagues-of-egypt breaks down the story of Exodus and the 10 plagues...

also.. here you go mako...

"The Egyptian Ipuwer papyrus describes a series of calamities befalling Egypt, including a river turned to blood, men behaving as wild ibises, and the land generally turned upside down. However, this is usually thought to describe a general and long term ecological disaster lasting for a period of decades, such as that which destroyed the Old Kingdom. The document is usually dated to the end of the Middle Kingdom, or more rarely, to its beginning, fitting the Old Kingdom destruction, but in both cases long before the usual theorized dates for the Exodus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

however... i would like to point out a few things...

1. it does state that most archeologist are already biased against believing that the 10 plagues happened... so they aren't really looking for proof

2. the evidence that is presented isn't even seriously looked at

3. the official date of the exodus is a THEORY and not concrete... which means that they could indeed be wrong about the above section that i posted from wikipedia

just thought i would toss that into the fray for those that wanted to read it... and so that if you try to drop a date for the Exodus... people know that you are quoting a THEORY... not a fact...

[bornagainuhmanduh]

i'm going to have to go with hairston on this one...

the major things that i NEVER see considered that seem like they should be important questions are:

how close were these events together?

how close do they have to be before it leaves the possibility of natural occurance?

The first plague (blood) lasted for 7 days.

The frogs came for one day, and the Pharaoh said he wanted them gone the next day. So 2 days for the frogs.

The gnats/fleas then came, and it doesn't offer a timeline, just that they couldn't get rid of them. So this was ongoing, I presume.

The next was pestilence/epidemic disease, which doesn't list the amount of time. Probably ongoing as well.

The next, boils/skin disease was also probably ongoing.

Hail and fire, a storm came next, it stopped, although time is also not listed here. (notice a trend with which plagues come to an end?)

The locusts came after eating everything, so probably within days. Then they went away, which locusts do.

The darkness lasted for three days.

And then of course the last, the killing of the first born males, which was how many days, not many...I can't remember.

Anyhow, looking at this from the biblical sense, it probably lasted several weeks/months, with some of the plagues never really ending, like the fleas/gnats for example.

What happens after all of this is really interesting, after the parting: The Israelites were lost in the wilderness for 40 years, and then Moses struck the rock twice to get water, and God had told him to only strike the rock once, so God got angry and told Moses he would never find the promised land for that sin, so he died at the end of that 40 years. Wow! Even after going through all of those plagues, doing what God told him to do, God punished him for striking the rock twice!

[thaphantum]

Are you kidding me???????? (sorry GW, I know you hate that)

You feel that it's OK to murder a bunch of little innocent children, just because the pharoah said no? With simple minded insinuations such as this, then one could say, My neighbor hit his wife, so God should kill all the kids in the neighborhood. It's just as assnine.

i guess if you view death as bad... which i don't... especially since i believe kids go to heaven... so really in my OPINION they made out good on the deal... and honestly... i envy their position... but that is just personal OPINION...

and by the way... your example is sooooo far off of what happened...

God ASKED first... multiple times... since pharoah didn't seem to care that his kingdom was falling apart... God took the next step and took out a whole generation of egyptians...

but what we have entered here is the realm of opinion... so we could go back and forth all night... you'll probably still see it as wrong... and i'm not going to see a problem with it... because it could have all been avoided if pharoah wasn't so intent on enslaving the Jewish people...

edited: by the way... Moses told pharoah what was about to happen to the first borns... and pharoah pretty much said... "so what, screw you and screw your God, you're still slaves"

so pharoah could have stopped it but didn't want to...

and by the way... am i spelling PHAROAH right? lol... it looks wrong...

Edited April 3, 2007 by thaphantum

[airika]

just thought i would toss that into the fray for those that wanted to read it... and so that if you try to drop a date for the Exodus... people know that you are quoting a THEORY... not a fact...

Well.....he never said that's when it took place, he was giving an estimated date as to when that book of the bible was written. (I wasn't aware that 6th century BCE was an exact date ) I must also say, that you yourself quote quite a bit of theories and mythology, as if it were fact. I mean no disrespect to you, but Thank you for reposting what I had already posted, and not quite understanding it's context. I would also like to ask if you have a different link, rather then the ask.com link, for your references on the ancient Egyptians acknowledging the hebrew God.

[thaphantum]

What happens after all of this is really interesting, after the parting: The Israelites were lost in the wilderness for 40 years, and then Moses struck the rock twice to get water, and God had told him to only strike the rock once, so God got angry and told Moses he would never find the promised land for that sin, so he died at the end of that 40 years. Wow! Even after going through all of those plagues, doing what God told him to do, God punished him for striking the rock twice!

actually there was more to it than that... that's a whole off topic discussion about the Rock of Living Water... a prophecy of Christ... etc...

but the reason that Moses didn't see the promised land was because of the 12 spies... 10 didn't want to invade... 2 (Joshua and Caleb) said... let's go for it...

but because Moses trusted the spies and not God... Moses wasn't allowed to see the promised land..

[bornagainuhmanduh]

i guess if you view death as bad... which i don't... especially since i believe kids go to heaven... so really in my OPINION they made out good on the deal... and honestly... i envy their position... but that is just personal OPINION...

and by the way... your example is sooooo far off of what happened...

God ASKED first... multiple times... since pharoah didn't seem to care that his kingdom was falling apart... God took the next step and took out a whole generation of egyptians...

but what we have entered here is the realm of opinion... so we could go back and forth all night... you'll probably still see it as wrong... and i'm not going to see a problem with it... because it could have all been avoided if pharoah wasn't so intent on enslaving the Jewish people...

edited: by the way... Moses told pharoah what was about to happen to the first borns... and pharoah pretty much said... "so what, screw you and screw your God, you're still slaves"

so pharoah could have stopped it but didn't want to...

and by the way... am i spelling PHAROAH right? lol... it looks wrong...

I think you can spell it both ways!! Seriously, I do!! lol

Anyhow, the Pharaoh didn't have a choice. God darkened his heart, so he couldn't choose to end it. Also, why should one bad thing (the enslavement of the Israelites) excuse another (the killing of the first born)?

[airika]

i guess if you view death as bad... which i don't... especially since i believe kids go to heaven... so really in my OPINION they made out good on the deal... and honestly... i envy their position... but that is just personal OPINION...

and by the way... your example is sooooo far off of what happened...

God ASKED first... multiple times... since pharoah didn't seem to care that his kingdom was falling apart... God took the next step and took out a whole generation of egyptians...

but what we have entered here is the realm of opinion... so we could go back and forth all night... you'll probably still see it as wrong... and i'm not going to see a problem with it... because it could have all been avoided if pharoah wasn't so intent on enslaving the Jewish people...

edited: by the way... Moses told pharoah what was about to happen to the first borns... and pharoah pretty much said... "so what, screw you and screw your God, you're still slaves"

so pharoah could have stopped it but didn't want to...

and by the way... am i spelling PHAROAH right? lol... it looks wrong...

You're making excuses for a mythological deity, and using irrational thought patterns in the process. If your god was so almighty, then please, tell my why he didn't just kill the pharoah? Your God decided to choose his own "sacrafices". He supposedly so many innocent children and animals, when he could have stopped it all with killing one man. Seriously, your mythology makes no sense, and I feel there's no justification in your god "actions".

[thaphantum]

Well.....he never said that's when it took place, he was giving an estimated date as to when that book of the bible was written. (I wasn't aware that 6th century BCE was an exact date ) I must also say, that you yourself quote quite a bit of theories and mythology, as if it were fact. I mean no disrespect to you, but Thank you for reposting what I had already posted, and not quite understanding it's context. I would also like to ask if you have a different link, rather then the ask.com link, for your references on the ancient Egyptians acknowledging the hebrew God.

i wasn't referring to his date of the writing of the Bible... mako posts a lot of dates as if they were fact... and as i usually point out... most of them are not fact like he sometimes presents them to be...

when i post theories... i try to always present it as a theory... or i will put that it is my OPINION...

the ancient egyptian link was from wikipedia... the exodus breakdown is from answer.com, but if i run across a few more sources... i'll post them for you... i figured answer.com would be somewhat unbiased... but as we all know... everyone has an agenda...

i'm not sure what you had already posted... i'll have to check again...

[bornagainuhmanduh]

You're making excuses for a mythological deity, and using irrational thought patterns in the process. If your god was so almighty, then please, tell my why he didn't just kill the pharoah? Your God decided to choose his own "sacrafices". He supposedly so many innocent children and animals, when he could have stopped it all with killing one man. Seriously, your mythology makes no sense, and I feel there's no justification in your god "actions".

WOW! I never even thought of that! What a great question. Why would God resort to such violence?

[thaphantum]

You're making excuses for a mythological deity, and using irrational thought patterns in the process. If your god was so almighty, then please, tell my why he didn't just kill the pharoah? Your God decided to choose his own "sacrafices". He supposedly so many innocent children and animals, when he could have stopped it all with killing one man. Seriously, your mythology makes no sense, and I feel there's no justification in your god "actions".

not excuses... just point out what's rational to me... in my opinion... your thinking on it is irrational... but lets look at it for a sec...

God kills pharoah... another one takes his place... and so on and so on...

it's the same as if the U.S. President gets killed... they just replace him with another person... so that wouldn't work now would it?

next... if God is all powerful... He controls where the children go when they die... so supposed they went to paradise where they never have to suffer pain, loss, diappointment, etc... are you telling me that you don't want them to have eternal happiness? if that's what you're inferring... that would make you EVIL... because in essense you are saying... screw their eternal happiness... they needed to be on earth to experience all the bad it has to offer... just so they can die in the end anyway...

and since you keep referring to God as "mythological" why are you agruing about what a "mythological" being should and shouldn't do...

if you truly believe God isn't real, yet you are angered by His actions... doesn't that make you