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Plagues of Exodus


airika

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  1. 1. Plagues of Exodus natural, or miraculous?

    • Natural Occurences
      14
    • Wrath of God
      7
    • A little of both
      5


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are you really going to propose the argument that people don't know the difference between BLOOD and colored water?

Exodus 7 20 Moses and Aaron did just as the LORD had commanded. He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.

22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts, and Pharaoh's heart became hard; he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said

There is NO way for a magician to be able to actually turn water into blood. I strongly feel it was just the COLOR of blood.

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are you really going to propose the argument that people don't know the difference between BLOOD and colored water?

I was thinking about that, so I edited that post. :lol: Although then I found out that the Bible does say it was Blood, but maybe that's only in some transcriptions. This was out of the NIV.

edit>Good points airika, thanks for posting those verses.

Edited by uhmanduh
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long story short... who's going to stop HIM?

somebody does have the idea to go to war with God (Armageddon) and guess what? they all DIE!

The Bible is a biased source. Why can't we defeat god? Aren't we gods in our own right? If there is a god, he made the mistake of giving us a force more powerful than even he: Free Will.

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What effect does your judgment of God have on Him Cadet?

If God is not real, your judgment that He does not have any greater rights than you is useless since you're judging a fictional character.

If God is real as described in the Bible, then the fact that you have assumed that you have the power to judge Him kinda puts you in the same boat as Satan who thought He could be like God and take His place... not good company.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful of you, obviously you have every right to believe as you do as far as I'm concerned, I'm just pointing this out because I want to understand what you believe.

Good points BM, and they would really make for some interesting considerations, a lot of interesting "What if" stories are popping into my mind.

But see, at least for me, The Old Testament (OT) and New Testament (NT) flow to tell one overall message. If all you saw of God in the OT was a vengeful, spiteful, jealous God, and then in the NT you only saw a totally loving, warm and cuddly, push-over God, that might make me wonder more about whether we were sold a bill of goods by Satan in the OT, but what you see throughout the Bible is GOD, a being who has the power to create everything we see around us, to give life... and take it away, a God who displays those powers and is a just God, but who is also so loving and caring that He always gives those He destroyed an opportunity to repent, a God who sent Jonah to Nineveh, the capital of the most blood-thirsty, most violent country at the time because He wanted to give them one last opportunity to repent and when they did repent--even though Jonah, in his self-indignation wanted God to blast them off the face of the Earth--God forgave them. There are plenty of references in the OT about God being a loving God/Father, and through Jesus's statements to the religious leaders of the time, the Pharisees and Sadducees, we also see that God is still a just God and that He is not just a warm and cuddly pushover. He is GOD.

AHA but see IAMS...I don't see God as a pushover....I dont like it when people USE Jesus as an escape goat..im pretty sure you have seen me post that before

But how god punishes you, is simply his own business...only he can descide that, not me or anyone else...

For all we know, God may just accept those that have followed him and have led a good life, and make their hopes and dreams come true in heaven..and for those that went the other way..well they could be the lost souls that will never get to see heaven or their loved ones again....I DONT KNOW...but I am not going to believe God is a killer...thats my beliefs anyhoo..

each to their own

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Ohh IAMS I so understand where you are coming from..trust me, im an ex chrsitian..belive you me..I KNOW...but see...with God being so powerful..he dont need to do this...set and lead by example...show a much better way to show the pharoah you mean business and only take it up with the pharoah...not everyone else...especially the innocent..that had sweet nothing to do with it...

Sorry IAMS but I think God deserves a lot more credit than that...I cant see God as a killer...I belive God can handle things in better ways....some people will say - well if God is so concerned about some lousey pharoah treating people like slaves and not setting them free, well then whats his excuse for iraq?? why didnt God do the same to Saddam?? or HITLER??...hmm?? I'll tell you why because God dont work that way IMO..he has his plans YES, but not harsh to take lives of innocent people........please understand where I am coming from

Why Didn't God Kill Pharoah

God did kill pharaoh, but only after the plagues. if He had killed pharoah to begin with, then pharoah's son would have instantly become pharoah even though he was still a kid. MOST of the time, the sons carried out the will and traditions of their father. so no matter how you slice it, God would have had to kill a kid.

Is God A Killer?

i'm not entirely sure why people think God can only create life. doesn't that point of view limit God's power? i think God deserves a lot more credit than that.

as far as Iraq, according to the Bible, those ARE NOT God's CHOSEN people. God made a promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to make sure that their decendents would never die off. He also made a few other promises too, which explains why nobody has been able to wipe out the Jews, no matter how hard they try. by the way, again, Sadaam is dead. and if i recall, didn't Hitler lose and supposedly die in the end?

and who says God didn't have a hand in destroying Hitler? at one time, God was America's backbone, which is evident by laws and other statements in American history. is it coincidence that America became a world power, just in time to stop Hitler? maybe, maybe not.

personally, i've come to the conclusion that no matter how much we explain to some people, they still say "i don't understand why God would..."

the thing is, you don't want to understand, nor do you intend to believe it, so why ask? it doesn't seem like you actually want to hear anyone's point of view for the sake of knowledge, but i wouldn't exactly call it debate either... so why even ask? just wondering...

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Why Didn't God Kill Pharoah

God did kill pharaoh, but only after the plagues. if He had killed pharoah to begin with, then pharoah's son would have instantly become pharoah even though he was still a kid. MOST of the time, the sons carried out the will and traditions of their father. so no matter how you slice it, God would have had to kill a kid.

[

And your point is?? what part of I don't BELIEVE in bible stories don't you get??

ohh yea silly me..NONE OF IT..cuz you keep throwing bible stuff at me..and getting at me for not believing...ok then keep your bible stuff coming..I have said my peice...LMAO

Love you you respect my beliefs...share the respect :tu:

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The Bible is a biased source. Why can't we defeat god? Aren't we gods in our own right?

the difference between being God and thinking you're a god... well, you only THINK you are, but He knows He IS

If there is a god, he made the mistake of giving us a force more powerful than even he: Free Will.

based on every religious text i've ever read about ANY deity anywhere... God has FREE WILL also...

so it's not exactly a stalemate... He is still an all powerful being...

God: 1

Humans: 0

and by the way genius... exactly how do you plan to fight God?

this should be interesting to say the least...

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And your point is?? what part of I don't BELIEVE in bible stories don't you get??

ohh yea silly me..NONE OF IT..cuz you keep throwing bible stuff at me..and getting at me for not believing...ok then keep your bible stuff coming..I have said my peice...LMAO

Love you you respect my beliefs...share the respect :tu:

ok, then why do you keep asking questions about a book you don't believe?

if you don't want people to throw Bible stuff your way... use common sense and don't ask about it...

edited:

by the way... the board is for the benefit of everyone... so even though you may not care, somebody might... furthermore... i rarely think of general questions as a direct reply, but as a reply moreso to the board in general than just to you...

Edited by thaphantum
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One does not need to fight god.

A child believes in fairies, and as he grows up, he stops believing and the fairies stop existing.

If people as a whole would grow up, then silly god stories would dissapear.

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and by the way genius... exactly how do you plan to fight God?

I don't think it would be too hard.....He more likely then not, doesn't exist. ;)

so no matter how you slice it, God would have had to kill a kid.

One evil child, or hundreds of innocent children? :hmm:

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the difference between being God and thinking you're a god... well, you only THINK you are, but He knows He IS

based on every religious text i've ever read about ANY deity anywhere... God has FREE WILL also...

so it's not exactly a stalemate... He is still an all powerful being...

God: 1

Humans: 0

and by the way genius... exactly how do you plan to fight God?

this should be interesting to say the least...

Well, considering I don't actually believe in a god, I'd have to say my simple non-belief would be enough. But, at one time, I was a "Christian" and angry at god, and I had a reasonable way of defeating god...

Magic(k). The Bible is strictly against it's use..why? Because it might be able to rival the power of god? Just a thought.

Or, I could (I know it's clique, but hey, it might work) go into league with Satan. Satan is a god in his own right.

But, I lack faith in such.

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Sadaam is dead. and if i recall, didn't Hitler lose and supposedly die in the end? and who says God didn't have a hand in destroying Hitler?

After how many Jews were murdered? God intervened but waited until millions had been murdered first? :blink: You can conceive of a God who does this? Can you imagine the suffering of those who died in the war? God just waited for the right moment to step in did he? He allowed Hitler to stay in power, he allowed the death camps to be constructed and filled with people... people who believed in him... and waited for his moment?

the thing is, you don't want to understand, nor do you intend to believe it, so why ask? it doesn't seem like you actually want to hear anyone's point of view for the sake of knowledge, but i wouldn't exactly call it debate either... so why even ask? just wondering...

There is a great difference between asking and then evalutaing the information for the purpose of learning, and asking and swalling the response hook, line and sinker. You seem to require the latter of the person who asks the question. There is no requirement that the person who asks the question believe the answer for the questioning to be vaild.

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ok, then why do you keep asking questions about a book you don't believe?

if you don't want people to throw Bible stuff your way... use common sense and don't ask about it...

I'll ask what ever I wish...............but gee when I tell someone kindly..I understand you but i see it this way.....I dont expect someone else LIKE YOU to barge in and throw more bible at me...for crying out loud man if I ASK you..then YEA...but I didnt ask you..so umm if you dont mind...??

would you like it so so much, if every time you posted stuff from your bible..I kept on and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnn pushing my non beliefs in your face...getting at you and onlllyyyyyyy you...NO se I will question parts of the bible...but at the same time..if someone tells me..but thats their beliefs..I dont act like you and say sod that..heres more of my crap

back off mate...if I want it..ill ask you ;) but right now NO THANKS

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One does not need to fight god.

A child believes in fairies, and as he grows up, he stops believing and the fairies stop existing.

If people as a whole would grow up, then silly god stories would dissapear.

Thats what happened to me...I once believed in bible stories..then I got older...do the math lol

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once again i say this(from a neutral stance)...

IF THERE IS ONE TRUE GOD....

...what is the point of trying to rationalize/understand/translate/judge something that is OBVIOUSLY far above us in every way possible?? We have yet to even understand ourselves...look at humanity. Lol, but we can tell God he's "wrong"...

In a family, is a baby born giving orders to its parents or governing family affairs?(a non-disfuctional fam :P )

IF THERE IS NO GOD....

...whats the point of talking about it in the first place if its all a bunch of hooey? Seems like a waste of energy just to tear down something that gives another man hope, regardless of whether its real or not.

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What effect does your judgment of God have on Him Cadet?

If God is not real, your judgment that He does not have any greater rights than you is useless since you're judging a fictional character.

If God is real as described in the Bible, then the fact that you have assumed that you have the power to judge Him kinda puts you in the same boat as Satan who thought He could be like God and take His place... not good company.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful of you, obviously you have every right to believe as you do as far as I'm concerned, I'm just pointing this out because I want to understand what you believe.

I don't believe that the creator can destroy his creations and still be considered 'all-good' or 'all-merciful'.

Yes God does have the power to do as he wishes to whatever he wishes. In his opinion and some people's opinion he also has the justification to do so.

He knows all and sees all and can give the gift of eternal happiness. Some worship him because of this, I do not.

He can destroy all and give the curse of eternal torture. Some fear him because of this, I do not.

God is more powerful and more intelligent then me...but does something being stronger or smarter then you ever mean that you have to worship it?

God gives with his right hand and takes with the left. God shows remarkable similarities to humans...from his personality to his actions he is not much unlike us.

I do not live a life of worship and fear. The lost arts of equality and freedom seem to hold no real value to God.

Anything that requires and demands worship deserves neither...anything that rules through fear is no more a god then a dog.

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Look over all your past experiences that you can remeber good and bad and follow them up to this very day. These things happened for a reason to bring you to where you are today and were you'll be in the future. We make our own destiny every second of every day in our lives. This is the plan included in our free will. We have complete control over everything we do in our lives, what we dont have control over is the concequences that follow those choices. There is a concequece for every action we do in our lives, good or bad. For Bible reference to how we have free will but still follow the big plan, read the story of Samson in the book of Judges. The Judges in the book were basicly considered and put on earth as the enforcers of God's law in those times. Samson was a judge that had a rebelious side. Read it and it will give a explaination to the plan God puts out for us.

One point that has been missled but constantly argued is the differences between Heaven and Earth. Christ preaches basicly this, Why cling to this world and the bland worldly treasures and pleasures when there are greater ones awaiting in Heaven. What is really the point of collecting and obtaining here on earth? Can you take it with you when you die? No. But what do you take with you to the afterlife? Nothing. All you have when you die basicly is your soul. And life is short and death is right behind you on your walk of life. Slowly but shurly catching up with you until finnally, Tag you It! You never know when you'll die but you'll allways know your alive while your living. All you really need in life is the neccessities to sustain your life. Everything else is superficial and should be treated as such.

Look at it this way, death is the doorway to the second life. Only those that cling to this world and the material wealth accuired in it will reject death and fear it because they either dont want to leave what they have obtained or fear after death there is no afterlife and basicly you are nothing. Christ states that no matter what the burden or wickedness experienced here on earth will be it will be reversed an eternal fold in Heaven. "And he will wipe away every tear and take away all sorrow felt." The true message is dont cling to this world entirely because it is not your final destination or were you really belong.

no dave , I don't buy the 'things happen for a reason thingy" that is just another way to me of saying one can be irresonsible and justify absurd things...Life is bascially meaningless the meaning it has is the meaning i give it, there are no victums or martyrs, or supermans in my story or princes or imaginary friends.... in my world....Death is natural its part of life i live now and enjoy the life i am living , i look at my life and see i have drawn to myself the perfect circumstances for being who i have decided I'd be, i don't give away my slef or power to a imaginary diety i accept responsiblity for my life and i embrace the bad with the good, i am where i am because of the tough times those have been my greatest moments, brought to me by me at some level, i don't see the value of creating dependencys for myself or glossing the reality with BS..., My life is not for the faint of heart, i have a few mountains to climb I see what is and does what works.....We each gotta do what works i am a minimalist no needs, or requirements , simply preferences, i'm not special or superior.. just one part of the whole doing what I can to walk in unity, its not some story with me as the star of my drama needing to be special and superior becasue every mom told their baby they were special....I've grown up and set aside silly things in the process....this si probably too real for many but it works for me and for now this is the plan, the plan I call my life.....

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no dave , I don't buy the 'things happen for a reason thingy" that is just another way to me of saying one can be irresonsible and justify absurd things...Life is bascially meaningless the meaning it has is the meaning i give it, there are no victums or martyrs, or supermans in my story or princes or imaginary friends.... in my world....Death is natural its part of life i live now and enjoy the life i am living , i look at my life and see i have drawn to myself the perfect circumstances for being who i have decided I'd be, i don't give away my slef or power to a imaginary diety i accept responsiblity for my life and i embrace the bad with the good, i am where i am because of the tough times those have been my greatest moments, brought to me by me at some level, i don't see the value of creating dependencys for myself or glossing the reality with BS..., My life is not for the faint of heart, i have a few mountains to climb I see what is and does what works.....We each gotta do what works i am a minimalist no needs, or requirements , simply preferences, i'm not special or superior.. just one part of the whole doing what I can to walk in unity, its not some story with me as the star of my drama needing to be special and superior becasue every mom told their baby they were special....I've grown up and set aside silly things in the process....this si probably too real for many but it works for me and for now this is the plan, the plan I call my life.....[/u]

You say no but explain exactly what I was giving as an example. Anyway you are special and unique because your you. The world does revolve around you, but it is from personal preference. And that is the way it is with all of us. You are needle of the compass. You see the world through your eyes and no one elses. What I have bolded and underlined explains this exactly in your own words. You have a purpose and all you do happens for a reason. If this wasnt true then there would be nothing to your life. Choices are made everyday in our lives from the major ones like marrage and parenting to minor ones such as buying cinnamon or winterfresh gum. And all those have a reaction or consequence no matter how trivial. We are all connected in this world and we all unknowingly affect the lives of others with our decisions. If there was no reason for you or me or anyone to be here we would not be here. The future is ours to create purpsose or not reason or not. There are many things that happen that we cannot control or explain. to try and control or explain these happenings is not conclusive and we will never be able to. life changes every minute of our lives. When thought about or looked upon life itself is quite phenominal and wonderful. There is a purpose and reason for everything in our lives, if there wasnt what would be the purpose of living?

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If there was no reason for you or me or anyone to be here we would not be here.

Why? If God can do whatever he wants, why couldn't he just create because he can and then leave his creation be and go onto doing something else?

There is a purpose and reason for everything in our lives, if there wasnt what would be the purpose of living?

There doesn't have to be divine purpose for there to be worth in human existence.

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Why? If God can do whatever he wants, why couldn't he just create because he can and then leave his creation be and go onto doing something else?
An excellent point. If one believes god can do whatever he likes, because he's god and it's his prerogative, as part of a plan, who can say god couldn't choose to create life on Earth and then let it work with everything god gave it to continue. Or not!? That would even go along with the inspired bible. Who can say god didn't create everything that exists, inspired the guidelines to keep it in line, (inspired a lot of guidelines, across a lot of cultures) and then let his creation go on it's own!? After all, if everything is made from god and god is perfect then nothing can be imperfect.
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I don't think it would be too hard.....He more likely then not, doesn't exist. ;)

question still stands... how do you fight Him whether He exists or not? nobody can even defeat the simple IDEA of God... that just shows how powerful God truly is...

i rest my case... :tu:

One evil child, or hundreds of innocent children? :hmm:

we only know he was an evil child because we are looking back on history... Hitler wasn't born evil... he developed his ideas over time... so would you kill him? he was an innocent child at one time...

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nobody can even defeat the simple IDEA of God... that just shows how powerful God truly is...

i rest my case... :tu:

Actually, that just proves the strength of man's will to believe.

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question still stands... how do you fight Him whether He exists or not? nobody can even defeat the simple IDEA of God... that just shows how powerful God truly is...

i rest my case... :tu:

The only reason your god has not been destroyed in terms of believers, is because your people have decided that, while it says "Thou shalt not kill", it was alright to kill in the name of christ. And thus, by lowering the numbers of people in other faiths, you've become dominant.

However! A new century is apon us, and I do hope it will be the death-bell of this faith, it's b****** mother(Judaism) and christianity's own b****** offspring(Islam).

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The only reason your god has not been destroyed in terms of believers, is because your people have decided that, while it says "Thou shalt not kill", it was alright to kill in the name of christ. And thus, by lowering the numbers of people in other faiths, you've become dominant.

However! A new century is apon us, and I do hope it will be the death-bell of this faith, it's b****** mother(Judaism) and christianity's own b****** offspring(Islam).

I dont think its ok to kill in the name of chrsit or any God for that matter

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