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Blair keeps the hostage ball running


Mr Slayer

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Upon the return of the captured british sailors, the prime minister Blair condemns 'terrorist elements' in the Iran government responsible for the incident.

(The link is in Swedish because I haven't been able to find any news flash about this in english:

Link)

-------------------------------------------------------

Something tells me that mr Blair isn't satisfied with how things have worked out. My guess is that he will continue to nag about this until he provokes another lashing out by the Iranian Loudmouth.

Edited by AshKatNah
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I don't think he should be complaining at all. The soldiers admitted to wrongfully going in Iranian waters. Now if the soldiers come out and say that they was coerced into a confession, then he has something to complain about.

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The soldiers admitted to wrongfully going in Iranian waters.

.... and you beleive them? First only 3 or 4 admitted to going into Iranian waters that we know of, the other 11 we heard nothing from except Iran saying they had admitted to it. Two, they were prisoners; anything they said during their capivity has to be assumed to be what Iran told them to say until they admit to it being their words. Three, given the only people they have had contact with during that time were Iranian's telling them they had crossed the border, they could well have been convinced it was true even if it wasn’t.

No offense, but it is very naive to beleive the words of soldiers being paraded in front of national television for propoganda purposes can be taken at face value.

Now if the soldiers come out and say that they was coerced into a confession, then he has something to complain about.

Which is very likely to happen within the next few weeks, and its pretty obvious this was the case even without them telling us.

Edited by Talon
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91193-1259413,00.html

We Gathered Intelligence'

Updated: 22:05, Thursday April 05, 2007

The captain in charge of the 15 marines detained in Iran has said they were gathering intelligence on the Iranians.

Sky News went on patrol with Captain Chris Air and his team in Iraqi waters close to the area where they were arrested - just five days before the crisis began.

We withheld the interview until now so it would not jeopardise their safety.

And today, former Iranian diplomat Dr Mehrdad Khonsari said if the Iranians had known about it, they would have used it to "justify taking the marines captive and put them on trial".

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.... and you beleive them? First only 3 or 4 admitted to going into Iranian waters that we know of, the other 11 we heard nothing from except Iran saying they had admitted to it. Two, they were prisoners; anything they said during their capivity has to be assumed to be what Iran told them to say until they admit to it being their words. Three, given the only people they have had contact with during that time were Iranian's telling them they had crossed the border, they could well have been convinced it was true even if it wasn’t.

No offense, but it is very naive to beleive the words of soldiers being paraded in front of national television for propoganda purposes can be taken at face value.

Which is very likely to happen within the next few weeks, and its pretty obvious this was the case even without them telling us.

Well said, maybe Iran told them to say that and they may go home early. lets just wait to hear from the troops!!!

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They weren't hurt or humiliated in any way, they weren't held captive for an extended period and they were released rather respectfully.

Why can't we all just let it go?

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They weren't hurt or humiliated in any way, they weren't held captive for an extended period and they were released rather respectfully.

Why can't we all just let it go?

What gives Iran theright to kidnap 15 sailors and give them back as a gift? lets see what the solders have to say and maybe the British will release the GPS's for the world to see.

Why cant we just find out what happened?

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Well, even if they didn't enter Iranian waters...they were still awfully close to hostle waters...as far as I'm concerned it's to be expected.

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And what do you mean by Hostile waters? is that anywhere next to Iran, even in Iraqi waters? so your saying even if the troops were in Iraqi waters, they were close to Iranian waters and they have the right to be kidnap and tried for crimes?

And that "Why can't we all just let it go?"

Edited by Caesar
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91193-1259413,00.html

We Gathered Intelligence'

Updated: 22:05, Thursday April 05, 2007

The captain in charge of the 15 marines detained in Iran has said they were gathering intelligence on the Iranians.

Sky News went on patrol with Captain Chris Air and his team in Iraqi waters close to the area where they were arrested - just five days before the crisis began.

We withheld the interview until now so it would not jeopardise their safety.

And today, former Iranian diplomat Dr Mehrdad Khonsari said if the Iranians had known about it, they would have used it to "justify taking the marines captive and put them on trial".

hmmm interesting... guess we will have to see what comes out on all this..

Just wondering. isn't Sky News in the UK sort of like the US version of FOX News???

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I just feel the British people deserve to know what really happened, even if they were really in Iranian waters.

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.... and you beleive them? First only 3 or 4 admitted to going into Iranian waters that we know of, the other 11 we heard nothing from except Iran saying they had admitted to it. Two, they were prisoners; anything they said during their capivity has to be assumed to be what Iran told them to say until they admit to it being their words. Three, given the only people they have had contact with during that time were Iranian's telling them they had crossed the border, they could well have been convinced it was true even if it wasn’t.

No offense, but it is very naive to beleive the words of soldiers being paraded in front of national television for propoganda purposes can be taken at face value.

Which is very likely to happen within the next few weeks, and its pretty obvious this was the case even without them telling us.

Or they could have been speaking in code. That has happened before. :blink:

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Oh well, no matter what comes out of this, at least we should learn a lesson, which is..

"Continue patroling, but go heavily armed, with close support from a Destroyer or Frigate (ideally with an armed helicopter on call) and open fire EARLY on any unauthorised approaching vessels. "

If a few Iranian patrol boats where destroyed close to the territorial boundary, then it might make them back down and stop being so arrogant. Look what happened in the Falklands war... we sank ONE Cruiser (the Belgrano), and the ENTIRE Argentinian Navy immidiately headed for port and never came out again to trouble us.

..not that our Ministry of Surrender would consider such aggressive rules of engagement... oh gosh no... someone might get hurt. (someone OTHER than our soldiers, that is.... the MOD doesn't seem too concerned about OUR casualties). Whats the betting that our Frigates and patrol boats will be quietly withdrawn from the border (despite the fact that they are acting under a UN mandate) in order not to "cause trouble".

Meow Purr.

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Released sailors tell of ordeal

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.

They were lined up while weapons were cocked, making them "fear the worst", one of the 15 freed sailors revealed.

The crew were told that if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.

Opposing their captors was "not an option," they said.

And after the 15 marines and sailors were seized they were subjected to random interrogation and rough handling, and faced constant psychological pressure, they said.

The navy has already begun a review of the circumstances surrounding the incident.

Royal Marine Captain Chris Air, 25, from Altrincham, Cheshire, said they had seconds to make a decision when confronted by the Iranians while carrying out a routine operation.

"We are aware that many people have questioned why we allowed ourselves to be taken in the first place and why we allowed ourselves to be shown by the Iranian authorities on television.

"Let me be absolutely clear, from the outset it was very apparent that fighting back was simply not an option".

"Had we chosen to do so then many of us would not be standing here today. Of that I have no doubts".

Had they resisted there would have been a fight they could not have won, he said.

"Fighting back would have caused a major international incident and an escalation of tension within the region," he said.

Iraqi waters

Two of the crew read out a prepared statement to the press conference at the Royal Marines Barracks at Chivenor, in north Devon.

Lieutenant Felix Carman, 26, of Swansea, south Wales, said the sailors and marines were on an operation on 23 March, 1.7 nautical miles from Iranian waters, when they were captured.

Cpt Chris Air said the crew had made it clear they were on a "routine operation allowed under a UN mandate" but the Iranians had a "planned intent."

"Some of the Iranian sailors were becoming deliberately aggressive and unstable."

Their boat was surrounded by six boats and rammed and they were trained with heavy machine guns and weapons.

The officer in charge Lt Carman said they were taken to a prison in Tehran where they were stripped and dressed in pyjamas.

They were kept in stone cells, sleeping on blankets and held in isolation until the last few nights and frequently interrogated.

Lt Carman said they were given two choices.

"If we admitted we had strayed, we would be on a plane back to the UK soon. If we didn't we faced up to seven years in prison".

The only woman in the group, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, believed for at least four days that she was the only one still being held.

"Like all of us she has been exploited," Cpt Air said.

Royal Marine Joe Tindell told how they feared for their lives in prison.

"We had a blindfold and plastic cuffs, hands behind our backs, heads against the wall. Basically there were weapons cocking. Someone, I'm not sure who, someone said, I quote 'lads, lads I think we're going to get executed'."

"After that comment someone was sick and as far as I was concerned he had just had his throat cut."

Lt Carman said they were only allowed to gather for a few hours together, in the full glare of Iranian media.

He said they only learned they were going to be released when they watched the Iranian president on TV.

"There was a huge moment of elation," he said.

Iranian TV has said it expected some of the British sailors would come under pressure from the UK government when they returned home to change their story.

The navy's review will look at the the circumstances surrounding the incident and the wider rules of engagement for UK forces operating in the area.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/6533069.stm

Oh yes, Manfred, look like the Iranian's treated them very well :rolleyes:

Oh and look EmpressStar, turns out they weren't in Iranian waters despite what you said (big surprise that)

Now while people I know the anti-western attitude is the 'in thing' right now, and its seen as 'cool' to take the opinion that your country is the in wrong and the poor terrorists are just being misunderstood by nasty western powers - give it a rest. As a socialist I'm just as critical of capitalism as the next person, however I'm so sick and tired of this blind bleeding-heart politically-correct stupidity which has gripped the nation into turning a blind eye on all evils carried out by non-western countries because PCism declares west = bad. Manfred, EmpressStar, Iran is a run by far-right religious zealots; it persecutes gays and women etc; it has cartoon shows aimed at children which glorifies terrorism; its media insults the west frequently; and its leaders put of fatwa’s against anyone who stands up against them - this is not the actions of a civilised nation despite what you may believe. So while it might be seen as 'cool' for you to believe Iran is just misunderstood and the west is at fault here, does not make it so.

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They weren't hurt or humiliated in any way, they weren't held captive for an extended period and they were released rather respectfully.

Why can't we all just let it go?

they are selling their stories to tabloids....maybe they should let it go....

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They weren't hurt or humiliated in any way, they weren't held captive for an extended period and they were released rather respectfully.

Why can't we all just let it go?

It's funny, but if a criminal kidnapped a person or held a group of people hostage....in any nation......then released the hostages. What do you think would happen? The criminal would not be just walking home.

The Iranians manufactured the whole incident and even stated what they were going to do a few weeks prior. This is part of an Iranian pattern, and even if you let this one incident go.............it won't end the ongoing crisis.

Oh well, no matter what comes out of this, at least we should learn a lesson, which is..

"Continue patroling, but go heavily armed, with close support from a Destroyer or Frigate (ideally with an armed helicopter on call) and open fire EARLY on any unauthorised approaching vessels. "

If a few Iranian patrol boats where destroyed close to the territorial boundary, then it might make them back down and stop being so arrogant. Look what happened in the Falklands war... we sank ONE Cruiser (the Belgrano), and the ENTIRE Argentinian Navy immidiately headed for port and never came out again to trouble us.

..not that our Ministry of Surrender would consider such aggressive rules of engagement... oh gosh no... someone might get hurt. (someone OTHER than our soldiers, that is.... the MOD doesn't seem too concerned about OUR casualties). Whats the betting that our Frigates and patrol boats will be quietly withdrawn from the border (despite the fact that they are acting under a UN mandate) in order not to "cause trouble".

Meow Purr.

Can't bring in heavy vessels like frigates and destroyers into those shallow waters. Two choices pop out to me. One, bring in heavier patrol boats or corvettes to patrol those estuaries. Second, move the patrols and merchant vessel searches into more open waters.

But, more than likely it will be the American Navy doing the heavy lifting at this point, as the British have suspended operations.

Edited by Aztec Warrior
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But, more than likely it will be the American Navy doing the heavy lifting at this point, as the British have suspended operations.

The Iranians wouldn't do this against the American forces, knowing that the Americans would shoot first and ask questions later, and the British have a 'don't fight back unless your almost dead' rule of engagement.

Edited by Pinky Floyd
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they are selling their stories to tabloids....maybe they should let it go....

How awesome is that? So we have the soldiers who want to sell their stories to tabloids, soldiers who CAN'T speak freely, despite what everyone believes, and we have blair who desperatly wants this crisis to continue. I don't know, maybe he didn't get the war he want, or he tries to keep face in front of a retarded population, but either way, it's a propaganda campaign, I hope you know that.

Now while people I know the anti-western attitude is the 'in thing' right now, and its seen as 'cool' to take the opinion that your country is the in wrong and the poor terrorists are just being misunderstood by nasty western powers - give it a rest. As a socialist I'm just as critical of capitalism as the next person, however I'm so sick and tired of this blind bleeding-heart politically-correct stupidity which has gripped the nation into turning a blind eye on all evils carried out by non-western countries because PCism declares west = bad. Manfred, EmpressStar, Iran is a run by far-right religious zealots; it persecutes gays and women etc; it has cartoon shows aimed at children which glorifies terrorism; its media insults the west frequently; and its leaders put of fatwa’s against anyone who stands up against them - this is not the actions of a civilised nation despite what you may believe. So while it might be seen as 'cool' for you to believe Iran is just misunderstood and the west is at fault here, does not make it so.

Actually, what you are doing right now seems to be the in thing lately. Noone is actually thinking the way you portray it, at least no one on here, and it isn't much of an argument if all you're trying to do is discrediting the other side.

It's funny, but if a criminal kidnapped a person or held a group of people hostage....in any nation......then released the hostages. What do you think would happen? The criminal would not be just walking home.

It's funny but if a criminal broke into your home, what do you think would happen? Despite your indoctrinated belief, neither the US nor Britain have any authority over Iran, nor are they standing above it.

Oh, and do you happen to have any scources to back up that claim?

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Now while people I know the anti-western attitude is the 'in thing' right now, and its seen as 'cool' to take the opinion that your country is the in wrong and the poor terrorists are just being misunderstood by nasty western powers - give it a rest. As a socialist I'm just as critical of capitalism as the next person, however I'm so sick and tired of this blind bleeding-heart politically-correct stupidity which has gripped the nation into turning a blind eye on all evils carried out by non-western countries because PCism declares west = bad. Manfred, EmpressStar, Iran is a run by far-right religious zealots; it persecutes gays and women etc; it has cartoon shows aimed at children which glorifies terrorism; its media insults the west frequently; and its leaders put of fatwa’s against anyone who stands up against them - this is not the actions of a civilised nation despite what you may believe. So while it might be seen as 'cool' for you to believe Iran is just misunderstood and the west is at fault here, does not make it so.

Actually, what you are doing right now seems to be the in thing lately. Noone is actually thinking the way you portray it, at least no one on here, and it isn't much of an argument if all you're trying to do is discrediting the other side.

Do you read these threads? Watch the news? Look other forums? I don't know how it is in Germany, but I can assure you we had enough people in the UK says 'I hope Iran kills those marines to teach Blair a lesson' etc (take a look at the BBC news sites comments site, now while I haven't seen anyone on this forum say something that extreme, I've seen plenty of people despite what you say blame the western invasion of Afghanistan for terrorism (ignoring we invaded them because of 9/11), make excuses for insurgents, and attack the west for its 'lack of tolerance' to Muslims etc etc etc. So yes Snake, there are people on this site who are anti-west at the moment for the sake of it, and yes I am trying to discredit their side, because their view-point is unbelievable.

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[...] I've seen plenty of people despite what you say blame the western invasion of Afghanistan for terrorism (ignoring we invaded them because of 9/11), make excuses for insurgents, and attack the west for its 'lack of tolerance' to Muslims etc etc etc. So yes Snake, there are people on this site who are anti-west at the moment for the sake of it, and yes I am trying to discredit their side, because their view-point is unbelievable.

There are two sides of the intolerance coin, Talon. Muslims are intolerant (since there is religion involved), but the West gladly uses that intolerance in its own propaganda. We are constantly being fed with media which depicts muslims as Kalaschnikov- waving, flag- burning, yell- on- the- street primitives, just as people in the East have their own propaganda about our decadent, muslim- hating, free- thinking lifestyle.

I mean, this conflict isn't new; it stretches back hundreds of years. Personally, I can only see the Crusades repeating themselves. Lies, propaganda and deception.

I am not certainly not in favor for Iran (for instance), but I refuse to take sides with West simply because I know all this is a two-way political farce. To blindly choose a side in a game whose players are equally rotten inside is to fool one self. Why am I often bashing the US and the UK instead of Iran and North Korea? Simply because people here seem to forget that the West isn't a flawless diamond; they forget to criticise the coin on both sides, not because I am "anti- west for the sake of it".

Edited by AshKatNah
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People often forget History as well. Iraq was drawn up by the British and a puppet King was put in place, until an *insurgency. The prize then was the same as it is now: Oil.

They forget that Iran's sovereign Gov. was overthrown by the CIA and a puppet was installed until the revolution.

There is a reason they are defensive, and justifiably so.

America has a history of overthrowing Sovereign and even Democratically elected Governments. We, as well as the British, have quite a history of imperialism. And not just by Military means, financially as well.

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These guys would kill as soon as look at you, wake up. They don't care about ANYTHING you care about. You are not human to them for nothing more than not believing in a figment of thier imagination.

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Released sailors tell of ordeal

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.

They were lined up while weapons were cocked, making them "fear the worst", one of the 15 freed sailors revealed.

The crew were told that if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.

Opposing their captors was "not an option," they said.

And after the 15 marines and sailors were seized they were subjected to random interrogation and rough handling, and faced constant psychological pressure, they said.

The navy has already begun a review of the circumstances surrounding the incident.

Royal Marine Captain Chris Air, 25, from Altrincham, Cheshire, said they had seconds to make a decision when confronted by the Iranians while carrying out a routine operation.

"We are aware that many people have questioned why we allowed ourselves to be taken in the first place and why we allowed ourselves to be shown by the Iranian authorities on television.

"Let me be absolutely clear, from the outset it was very apparent that fighting back was simply not an option".

"Had we chosen to do so then many of us would not be standing here today. Of that I have no doubts".

Had they resisted there would have been a fight they could not have won, he said.

"Fighting back would have caused a major international incident and an escalation of tension within the region," he said.

Iraqi waters

Two of the crew read out a prepared statement to the press conference at the Royal Marines Barracks at Chivenor, in north Devon.

Lieutenant Felix Carman, 26, of Swansea, south Wales, said the sailors and marines were on an operation on 23 March, 1.7 nautical miles from Iranian waters, when they were captured.

Cpt Chris Air said the crew had made it clear they were on a "routine operation allowed under a UN mandate" but the Iranians had a "planned intent."

"Some of the Iranian sailors were becoming deliberately aggressive and unstable."

Their boat was surrounded by six boats and rammed and they were trained with heavy machine guns and weapons.

The officer in charge Lt Carman said they were taken to a prison in Tehran where they were stripped and dressed in pyjamas.

They were kept in stone cells, sleeping on blankets and held in isolation until the last few nights and frequently interrogated.

Lt Carman said they were given two choices.

"If we admitted we had strayed, we would be on a plane back to the UK soon. If we didn't we faced up to seven years in prison".

The only woman in the group, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, believed for at least four days that she was the only one still being held.

"Like all of us she has been exploited," Cpt Air said.

Royal Marine Joe Tindell told how they feared for their lives in prison.

"We had a blindfold and plastic cuffs, hands behind our backs, heads against the wall. Basically there were weapons cocking. Someone, I'm not sure who, someone said, I quote 'lads, lads I think we're going to get executed'."

"After that comment someone was sick and as far as I was concerned he had just had his throat cut."

Lt Carman said they were only allowed to gather for a few hours together, in the full glare of Iranian media.

He said they only learned they were going to be released when they watched the Iranian president on TV.

"There was a huge moment of elation," he said.

Iranian TV has said it expected some of the British sailors would come under pressure from the UK government when they returned home to change their story.

The navy's review will look at the the circumstances surrounding the incident and the wider rules of engagement for UK forces operating in the area.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/6533069.stm

Oh yes, Manfred, look like the Iranian's treated them very well :rolleyes:

Oh and look EmpressStar, turns out they weren't in Iranian waters despite what you said (big surprise that)

Now while people I know the anti-western attitude is the 'in thing' right now, and its seen as 'cool' to take the opinion that your country is the in wrong and the poor terrorists are just being misunderstood by nasty western powers - give it a rest. As a socialist I'm just as critical of capitalism as the next person, however I'm so sick and tired of this blind bleeding-heart politically-correct stupidity which has gripped the nation into turning a blind eye on all evils carried out by non-western countries because PCism declares west = bad. Manfred, EmpressStar, Iran is a run by far-right religious zealots; it persecutes gays and women etc; it has cartoon shows aimed at children which glorifies terrorism; its media insults the west frequently; and its leaders put of fatwa’s against anyone who stands up against them - this is not the actions of a civilised nation despite what you may believe. So while it might be seen as 'cool' for you to believe Iran is just misunderstood and the west is at fault here, does not make it so.

I do not understand the double standard here.

First, it is very plausible that the soldiers said what they were told to say.

But then we shuld treat all the captives in Guantamo the same way. US makes them confess and say what they were told to say. Rings a Bell?

Second, if you are playing war you should not cry faul if the other side outsmart you.

They are free now. Get over it. They could have been held longer or even killed.

A soldiers job is to kill and be killed. If you do not understand this your place is not in the Army. Basta.

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Who remembers the so called 'tiptop' Taliban? The British born Muslims who went over to Afghanistan to fight against the allies.

What did the Taliban do?

They rounded them up, placed them in the back of a lorry and opened fire on the infidel foreigners. :)

Still those who surived were let back into the UK.. :hmm:

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