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british soldiers cowards


Super Pancake

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Yeah but who is going to declare war the British government would not need to declare war there just defending Iraqi waters. Ahmadinejad maybe a prick but the guy who is going to make the call is the Ayatollah and I doubt he cares about an encounter with 15 British navy officers as a call for war.

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It is interesting to see folks that are not in the military, nor have any military background passing judgement in this situation; which they have no idea of the details of the orders given to the soldiers or what was expected of them in such situations. The "coulda, woulda, shoulda" armchair quarterbacking is something that I find to be unfair to those that were involved.

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process of elimination..the choices made eliminated a worse outcome..given their situation :tu::tu: could have turned out much worse for more than who was envolved.

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Ohhh gosh - several posters have made similar comments, or danced around the topic.

I'm going to be deliberatly mischievous here.... just to see what happens....

"Nevil Chaimberland was RIGHT to negotiate with Hitler in 1938, and agree to (effectively) the invasion of Checkoslovakia, against an on-going background of Naze military expansion, after all.. had he OBJECTED.. we MIGHT have gone to war with Germany. "

"Tony was RIGHT not to allow the British Navy to be aggressive in protecting the Iraq coastal borders , against a background of continous Iranian probes and raides into international waters....... otherwise we MIGHT have gone to war with Iran"

Discuss

Meow Purr.

Interesting, maybe you should start another thread. I think the chamberlain example is seen with the beauty of hindsight.

Personally I wouldn't be happy fighting in this war. The role of the army has changed under Blair's Government.. as he has said himself 'we're in Iraq fighting for tolerance' er say what? Hardly a pc environment.

I think when you sent the army in it should always be the last resort.. you should always try and negotiate first but if it fails that's when the armed forces should go in.. and go in hard. I'm not sure why the navy didn't fight in Iran/Iraq waters debate.. at the moment I don't think we have enough information.

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Nooo... I don't think so....

The sailors where captured because of the failure of the UK government.

The marines COULD have defended themselves, if the Rules of Engagement (set by UK government) had permitted it.

HMS Cornwall COULD have intervened with Force Majeure (dunno about shallow waters, but they had a Helicopter armed with anti-ship missles, and machine-guns, for gawds sake.. and even then, their Canon has a range of MANY miles) .. but where subject to the ROE...see above.

Regardless of the above, the Navy and the RAF together could have turned the Iranian gunboats' harbours/bases into ASH ... but the ROE prevented it.

Shame on my government... you sold our Marines into humiliation. Hey... not in MY name you didn't.

Elections are coming.... be afraid Tony.

Meow Hiss Growl (vote) Purr.

If you watched the Press Confrence the Marine Captain said that they had the Right to defend them selves against aggressors (the Iranians) as stated in the Rules of Engagment. However he along with the Top Ranking Naval officer made the dessision to surrender as to meet near certian death. They were out gunned, out classed, and out numbered. I take it you would of fought, eh? Started a war?

They made the right choice, everything turned out good and they are back in the hands of the British. And they are eager to get back to their ship and back to work.

~Thanato

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Man, I just cannot believe some of the ignorance and stupidity I have read in these posts! So she's not skinny- SO WHAT. is it a frickin beauty contest??? Even Paris Hilton would look like a sack of potatoes in those army fatigues! The female sailor isn't even fat!! Not that it should be an issue. Honestly, how shallow are some of you?

and HOW DARE you call them cowards!! What do you do for a living?? The whole thing was resolved peacefully- exactly the best outcome! None of us here know the ins and outs of what went on, we don't even know FOR SURE who was right, the brits or the iranians.

All very well for some of you to hide behind your pcs and say they were cowards. I bet if you had been in that situation you'd have needed your nappy changed pretty quick!

Edited by StoneAgeQueen
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Man, I just cannot believe some of the ignorance and stupidity I have read in these posts! So she's not skinny- SO WHAT. is it a frickin beauty contest???

I think having some meat on you're bones would be helpful in the army especially if you end up stranded or captured and not able to eat food.

and HOW DARE you call them cowards!! What do you do for a living?? The whole thing was resolved peacefully- exactly the best outcome! None of us here know the ins and outs of what went on, we don't even know FOR SURE who was right, the brits or the iranians.

WOW you'rer scary when you are angry..............I like it :P And you are right none of us know what really went on.

I bet if you had been in that situation you'd have needed your nappy changed pretty quick!

I know I would have lol :w00t:

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In no way do I view the British soldiers as cowards. Any of the posters who think these soldiers are cowards, enlist in the armed forces and go put your ass on the line and see how far you make it.

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It is interesting to see folks that are not in the military, nor have any military background passing judgement in this situation; which they have no idea of the details of the orders given to the soldiers or what was expected of them in such situations. The "coulda, woulda, shoulda" armchair quarterbacking is something that I find to be unfair to those that were involved.

I agree with Fluffy. I think they did as they should, they were out gunned and once captured they did as the Iranians told them. What else were they suppose to do. I have seen American solders read the propaganda of their captures on TV. Those of us sitting safely in our living rooms should not judge them they are doing what they have to, to get home.

I think the woman solder is beautiful. I like my women on the chucky side. I bet she could beat the crap out of you guys who are calling her fat. ;)

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Man, I just cannot believe some of the ignorance and stupidity I have read in these posts! So she's not skinny- SO WHAT. is it a frickin beauty contest??? Even Paris Hilton would look like a sack of potatoes in those army fatigues! The female sailor isn't even fat!! Not that it should be an issue. Honestly, how shallow are some of you?

and HOW DARE you call them cowards!! What do you do for a living?? The whole thing was resolved peacefully- exactly the best outcome! None of us here know the ins and outs of what went on, we don't even know FOR SURE who was right, the brits or the iranians.

All very well for some of you to hide behind your pcs and say they were cowards. I bet if you had been in that situation you'd have needed your nappy changed pretty quick!

I agree 100% with you, StoneAgeQueen and with Fluffy.

As somebody who was in the Army, in Combat and in captiwity, I know very well what those soldiers went thru.

I did not see any cowerdness. Only the cowerdness of those who call them cowards. The End.

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i dont understand why the battle ships in the area didnt send air support once they found out they had felow troops in harms way.there should have been a strong enough show of force to make the iranians decide not to take prisioners in the first place...and that could have been done with out a shot fired..

as far as them reading the b.s. letters everyone knew what they were reading wasnt their words they were forced to read them...im sure they saw the very same videos we did with the prisoners getting beheaded...if i ahd the choice to read a letter everyone knows is fake or get my head choped off,,,ill read the damn letter...as long as they didnt give away info harmful to operations or fellow soliders they did nothing wrong.

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I agree 100% with you, StoneAgeQueen and with Fluffy.

As somebody who was in the Army, in Combat and in captiwity, I know very well what those soldiers went thru.

I did not see any cowerdness. Only the cowerdness of those who call them cowards. The End.

My father was in the army from age 20-30 and then in the Northern irish police force until his mid 50s.. I know exactly what you guys have been through... some people have no idea. Thank god for brave men like you and him. :tu:

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Does anybody else feel they were cowards. I thought they did things alright but yeah playing into Iranian propaganda is pretty messed up.

No I DO NOT believe in any way that they were cowards. In fact I am amazed and proud of how they handled themselves in this fricked up situation.. They did the right decisions under the circumstances they were in.. THEY were following the rules under the UN Mandate etc.. Iran don't play fair one d@mn bit.. and we all saw it in these past 14 days..

I am very angry : I realize the British MARINES WERE in Iraqi Waters ( I always believed they were - but more things are coming out to prove that statement) .. and the fricken IRG snags them up the way they did.. ALL for a BIG PLANNED WORLD MEDIA STUNT

That's slimely and underhanded.. and so typical of barbaric country behaviour..

And this stunt Iran has played out on the British Marines angers me all the more with IRAN when I've tried over and over to give their nutjob prez the benefit of the doubt! .. *WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING??!!!" .. and WORSE is: this all makes me want to stand with my nutjob US president when regarding Iran..

Like I've said on the other original thread on this topic of the UK Marines " This is going to bite Iran in the @ss...." sooner or later it will...and I think it has already started..

Edited by Cinders
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I don't think these troops were trained for interrogation scenarios like most special forces groups are. I was in the Marines and served in Kosovo and we were preparing ourselves for a rather lengthy interrogation of scenarios and how we would handle them. for those who aren't trained for them and how to handle it, its rather asking to much. I don't feel these troops were cowards. lets just be happy they are free and unharmed.

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I didn't call the UK soldiers cowards, I said they looked like children. Which they did, fooling around, joking and giving eachother nuggies. And the female.........man is she fat. How can someone that overweight be in the Royal Navy or Marines in the first place. They don't give the appearance of fierce warriors........and that was backed up by their actions. Go figure.

I agree. Soldiers these days aren't soldiers. They're button pushers and trigger pullers. Men with guns, boys without them.

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The Royal Marines contingent could probably have fought off their attackers....

bull. They would most likely have died.

Sadly, they operate under "Rules of Engagement" mandated by the UK Government.

Rules which would have allowed them to fire upon the Iranians once the Iranian's intent to capture them became clear.

There is no question of 'cowardice' on behalf of the Marines... once captured, they did whatever necessary (without compromising national security, or the safety of their colleagues) to get themselves out of the situation... hence the aquisence to those silly posed Iranian propoganda video's.

They didnt do what was right. There's a reason you dont do what they did, and its because the Iranians managed to use what they said to assemble a series of confession videos... and who know's what else they managed to figure out from the "non operational info" that was disclosed.

HMS Cornwall would have crossed territorial lines, and shelled Iran in retribution. (perhaps capturing the Abadan refinary as a warning).. and if THAT wasn't enough...

And would have been sunk before ever being in position to perform such an operation, unless it had support from other vessels in the area.

The marines COULD have defended themselves, if the Rules of Engagement (set by UK government) had permitted it.

They could have attempted to, but would have died in the process, and the RoEs do permit it.

HMS Cornwall COULD have intervened with Force Majeure (dunno about shallow waters, but they had a Helicopter armed with anti-ship missles, and machine-guns, for gawds sake.. and even then, their Canon has a range of MANY miles) .. but where subject to the ROE...see above.

Read above about the RoEs.

they should have been ALLOWED to defend themsevles..and HMS Cornwall's captain should have been ALLOWED to support them by all (violent) means available to his Type 22 Frigate.

However, the UK (my) government set the "rules of engagement" that castrated all of them... and allowed the Iranians to capture the marines, and make fools of all of us.

*Sigh* The UK's ROEs do permit them to defend themselves!

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The ships/helis that were there were guarding the Oil Platforms, thats all. They werent there to take on any sort of major conflict and were most probably poorly armed with only a few crew who werent there trained to deal with any major incident.

If you watch the video i posted earlier they explain very clearly WHY they didnt engage the Iranians. If you cant be bothered to basically it says that they were surrounded with guys pointing cocked rifles at them at pretty much point blank range. If they had moved then they would be shot within a few seconds.

Tbh its for the best that they did nothing as it has given us time to re-consider Irans position and intentions. And like Cinders said, sooner or later it will

'bite Iran in the @ss' and we can go in with the majority of the RN and the nice new shiny ships we have.

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Naa these Brit soldiers weren't being cowards.

They're government property and it's their first priority to see that nothing happens to that property.

They did the right thing. Given the military buildup in the area and the recent wargames, the Iranian government, already feeling the effects of the former sanctions, would have been idiots to execute or keep them indefinitely. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad likes to put on a defiant public image but I don't think he really wants a full blown war with the west.

Bottom line is Thank God they're home. :)

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These kids were just that kids....when i saw them on tv they looked so young and innocent...can you blame them for not fighting with those crass Iranians..

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Cant blame them for their actions....even for their fake confessions. Theyre still very young.

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I don't think age had anything to do with it. it was common sense really. Why try and fight when you've no chance of winning.

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