Was satan the chief musician in heaven?

[Nephilim_Slayer]

There is no biblical reference specifically that points to satan being the chief musician in heaven before he was cast out. But I have heard it from a few people and was wondering if anyone else has also heard this as well? If you have heard of this as well what are your thoughts on it? Where did you get the info from? The only real passage that tells of satan's roll in heaven was that in Job 1-2 were satan is presented as the accuser of believers in a heavenly court. Personally I don't know for sure if he was the chief musician, but I think he just might of been. Also this if you are just going to come to this thread saying "satan doez not existz ok?" then why bother posting, i'm sure there are more interesting threads for you. Serious responses only please.

[Radian]

I don't know NS, but I've heard this as well. I found this online really quick that mentions a few scriptures on it:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-music.html

I haven't checked it out myself, but i will.. :}

[Sublime]

They must have gone from death metal to classical once Satan left.....

[Nephilim_Slayer]

I don't know NS, but I've heard this as well. I found this online really quick that mentions a few scriptures on it:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-music.html

I haven't checked it out myself, but i will.. :}

AWESOME info Sunny, I actually remember reading that page a while ago and that was good reading. Even though its not specifically written in the bible that he was, there is a thought around the biblical world that he may of just been, music can be very powerful and influential.

[hewa]

Satan is only mentioned in the Old Testiment, being the challenge of man. Basically, he is just what all Abrahamics think as of the bearer of evil. Lucifer on the other hand, was the chief musician of heaven. This is where many get mixed up. Lucifer is deemed as Satan after his fall. And most believers think that this would have to make him Satan because his power was unique, having twelve wings and being brighter than any other Cherub (or Seraph, can't remember the order) and so this would make him evil, as God is good, and God must always win. You should be able to find more references on Lucifer.

[The Mule]

my serious answer is that the quote probably came from someone back in the 50's or 60's (possibly later) equating rock and roll to Satan and devil worshop. If there's any historical accuracy in "Great Balls of Fire" Jerry Lee's cousin Jimmy Swaggert told him he was going to hell for his music, and Jerry Lee responded that if he's going to hell, he's goin there playing the piano...I would seriously believe that your quote came from something like that. Maybe even earlier with jazz...

edit - Patron Saint of music - St Cecilia (for whatever that's worth)

Edited April 22, 2007 by The Mule

[ND-DAVE]

One thing to look at when you speak of Satan/Lucifer is that he was the golden boy of Heaven. He was God's most gracefull and powerfull creation and was technically gifted in everything. So in a sense he was the chief of everyting in Heaven when it came to angels. The only one above him at the time was God.

And technically he still is chief "musician" since he pulls the strings of this earth with his orchestra of sin.

[ND-DAVE]

Also come to think of it there is a lot of mythical dogma that probably states something like this, so perhaps you should check out some info on angelic scripture, and perhaps even demonology. I would also not recomend the book of Enoch since it is quite far fetched from Biblical scritpture and Catholic Dogma which I believe your question arises from. But if you are looking for more of a mythical answer over a Biblical one check out Enoch, it does have some discriptions on both fallen and heavenly angels.

[Radian]

See, I'm not one to sit here and argue about who is who, is Satan lucifer, Or lucifer Satan, or who was first and last etc,. I believe them to be different but really not sure of the significance b/t the two. Anyway, i looked up some links on Lucifer as Musician... interesting reads anyol'e way..Maybe some good reading if I get too bored or something...

http://www.destinyimage.com/static/rebirth...0914903802.html

freaky link but interesting stuff about cobras anyway....

http://www.piney.com/naga.html

http://www.centralcal.com/christ13.htm

Edited April 22, 2007 by Sunny98

[Omnaka]

One thing to look at when you speak of Satan/Lucifer is that he was the golden boy of Heaven. He was God's most gracefull and powerfull creation and was technically gifted in everything. So in a sense he was the chief of everyting in Heaven when it came to angels. The only one above him at the time was God.

And technically he still is chief "musician" since he pulls the strings of this earth with his orchestra of sin.

Michael whooped his butt, But loves him all the same.

Lucifer has been redeemed and shines bright with the love of God, Heavenly Mother and Father.

He also rides in the apocalypse of this world, under the name of Death as a councilor helping hearts to decide which world they will be going next.

Because Father and Mother, the Holy Spirit can and do redeem the lowest of the lows, one must realise that a special son , as Lucifer was prophesised to have a change of heart and shine like one of God's sons.

He was born with a tear from Father's eyes when his spirit was created, and is beloved by Father , and Mother (God), and The Holy Host (our Family).

Satan on the otherhand who is not Lucifer, changes by the minuit, as one satan changes his heart twards good and love , another spirit is waiting to take this title, untill he learns that true Love cannot be forced.

Heavenly Father is the chief Musician in Heaven, who plays all instruments, and has a voice which sounds like all the angels singing at once, Followed by Mother who playes them all too and sounds like all the angels singing at the same time with a Feminin quality. Her voice , and singing can heal anything and is amazing if one ever hears it, it wil sound like a thousand angels all harmonising with every sound in the Universe.

Love Omnaka

[ND-DAVE]

Michael whooped his butt, But loves him all the same.

Lucifer has been redeemed and shines bright with the love of God, Heavenly Mother and Father.

He also rides in the apocalypse of this world, under the name of Death as a councilor helping hearts to decide which world they will be going next.

Because Father and Mother, the Holy Spirit can and do redeem the lowest of the lows, one must realise that a special son , as Lucifer was prophesised to have a change of heart and shine like one of God's sons.

He was born with a tear from Father's eyes when his spirit was created, and is beloved by Father , and Mother (God), and The Holy Host (our Family).

Satan on the otherhand who is not Lucifer, changes by the minuit, as one satan changes his heart twards good and love , another spirit is waiting to take this title, untill he learns that true Love cannot be forced.

Heavenly Father is the chief Musician in Heaven, who plays all instruments, and has a voice which sounds like all the angels singing at once, Followed by Mother who playes them all too and sounds like all the angels singing at the same time with a Feminin quality. Her voice , and singing can heal anything and is amazing if one ever hears it, it wil sound like a thousand angels all harmonising with every sound in the Universe.

Love Omnaka

Interesting. One question I have for you is where did you get this story of Lucifer's redemption? I have never heard it before. From my study and belief I see Lucifer as Satan. He became the accuser when he was cast out to the earth. He does have enterance into Heaven but he can no longer live their and neither can the other fallen. Also redemption and forgivness is made for man not angel. I do not know what plan God has for the Angels fallen or Heavenly and as a man it is probably not my place to believe I do. Also another aspect I have allways believed in is that since Lucifer's rebellion he perhaps could have been forgiven but refuses to accept it due to his rebellious and power hungry nature. And then perhaps there is no Hell for Lucifer since as Satan it is his job to test and tempt man with sin to see if they are worthy of enterance to Heaven or not when Judgement comes. One cant be damned for doing his job, especially when he does it so well and for God.

One more thought. Since Lucifer/Satan is considered the anti of God and his whole goal is to lead us away from God and into damnation, Wouldnt it be true that when we discuss him as a noble, poetic, and missguided creature we are giving him that edge over us that makes us think that he isnt all that bad? So in a sense we are allowing ourselves to be led astray by him when we say, oh that devil, he aint so bad or he's pretty cool or that poor soul and ect. When in reality he cares nothing for us aside from his goal that we are a part of. It's like those Satanic cultist that believe that if they follow and worship him they'll have a nice seat of authority in Hell or Heaven when he finally overthrows God or whatever else they believe.

[hewa]

Interesting. One question I have for you is where did you get this story of Lucifer's redemption? I have never heard it before. From my study and belief I see Lucifer as Satan. He became the accuser when he was cast out to the earth. He does have enterance into Heaven but he can no longer live their and neither can the other fallen. Also redemption and forgivness is made for man not angel. I do not know what plan God has for the Angels fallen or Heavenly and as a man it is probably not my place to believe I do. Also another aspect I have allways believed in is that since Lucifer's rebellion he perhaps could have been forgiven but refuses to accept it due to his rebellious and power hungry nature. And then perhaps there is no Hell for Lucifer since as Satan it is his job to test and tempt man with sin to see if they are worthy of enterance to Heaven or not when Judgement comes. One cant be damned for doing his job, especially when he does it so well and for God.

One more thought. Since Lucifer/Satan is considered the anti of God and his whole goal is to lead us away from God and into damnation, Wouldnt it be true that when we discuss him as a noble, poetic, and missguided creature we are giving him that edge over us that makes us think that he isnt all that bad? So in a sense we are allowing ourselves to be led astray by him when we say, oh that devil, he aint so bad or he's pretty cool or that poor soul and ect. When in reality he cares nothing for us aside from his goal that we are a part of. It's like those Satanic cultist that believe that if they follow and worship him they'll have a nice seat of authority in Hell or Heaven when he finally overthrows God or whatever else they believe.

Omnaka has his own belief system. I've already talked to him about his religion in another thread, it's in Is Jesus the Son of God?. But based on what I've got, I suggest, and I'd know he'd probably want you to anyway, buy his book when it comes out.

[bumblesue]

Also come to think of it there is a lot of mythical dogma that probably states something like this, so perhaps you should check out some info on angelic scripture, and perhaps even demonology. I would also not recomend the book of Enoch since it is quite far fetched from Biblical scritpture and Catholic Dogma which I believe your question arises from. But if you are looking for more of a mythical answer over a Biblical one check out Enoch, it does have some discriptions on both fallen and heavenly angels.

hi, could you please tell me what the book of enoch is. i have herd it mentioned in here before but i dont know what it is. thanks

[Nephilim_Slayer]

WOW...I have read some amazing posts here...beautiful responses guys...And the thing is, the knowledge and power of God is so vast, even experts in things of God on this board know very much, but there is very much that we don't know as well...the word of God is unconquered by human beings, his knowledge and power is uncomprehending by humans. It is mind boggling ....

[bumblesue]

Michael whooped his butt, But loves him all the same.

Lucifer has been redeemed and shines bright with the love of God, Heavenly Mother and Father.

He also rides in the apocalypse of this world, under the name of Death as a councilor helping hearts to decide which world they will be going next.

Because Father and Mother, the Holy Spirit can and do redeem the lowest of the lows, one must realise that a special son , as Lucifer was prophesised to have a change of heart and shine like one of God's sons.

He was born with a tear from Father's eyes when his spirit was created, and is beloved by Father , and Mother (God), and The Holy Host (our Family).

Satan on the otherhand who is not Lucifer, changes by the minuit, as one satan changes his heart twards good and love , another spirit is waiting to take this title, untill he learns that true Love cannot be forced.

Heavenly Father is the chief Musician in Heaven, who plays all instruments, and has a voice which sounds like all the angels singing at once, Followed by Mother who playes them all too and sounds like all the angels singing at the same time with a Feminin quality. Her voice , and singing can heal anything and is amazing if one ever hears it, it wil sound like a thousand angels all harmonising with every sound in the Universe.

Love Omnaka

could you please tell me where you found that lucifer has been redeemed, also if satan is not lucifer then where did he come from. thanks

[Radian]

The book of Enoch online: I thought this was extremely interesting.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm

[ND-DAVE]

WOW...I have read some amazing posts here...beautiful responses guys...And the thing is, the knowledge and power of God is so vast, even experts in things of God on this board know very much, but there is very much that we don't know as well...the word of God is unconquered by human beings, his knowledge and power is uncomprehending by humans. It is mind boggling ....

Thats is why I say dont worry about it so much because we wont find out until the end anyway. Just live your life the best you can.

[Nephilim_Slayer]

Thats is why I say dont worry about it so much because we wont find out until the end anyway. Just live your life the best you can.

Yeah I feel the same way man. Completely agree. I'd also like to think the atheist community for not coming in here with the "satan does not exist" stuff...thank you for being considerate.

[seanph]

There is no biblical reference specifically that points to satan being the chief musician in heaven before he was cast out. But I have heard it from a few people and was wondering if anyone else has also heard this as well? If you have heard of this as well what are your thoughts on it? Where did you get the info from? The only real passage that tells of satan's roll in heaven was that in Job 1-2 were satan is presented as the accuser of believers in a heavenly court. Personally I don't know for sure if he was the chief musician, but I think he just might of been. Also this if you are just going to come to this thread saying "satan doez not existz ok?" then why bother posting, i'm sure there are more interesting threads for you. Serious responses only please.

Satan is not an evil character that later Christianity made him out to be. Satan is an angel that resides on God's heavenly court. He is an agent/obstacle of God's will, going before God when he wishes to do evil against someone, a town, city, or land.

Pagels charts the evolution of the Jewish and Christian concept of evil from Old Testament times to the present day (although the majority of the book deals with the New Testament era). She explains how 'Satan' didn't always refer to an evil being but was initially used to represent an obstacle. After that meaning, it evolved into a meaning which was used to unify your group against your enemies/adversaries or 'satan'. The Jews still don't, nor did they ever, believe in or create the Satan/Devil being/creature/character of Christian lore. It wasn't until New Testament times and later that the concept of an evil being who is actually called 'Satan' or the 'Devil' or 'Lucifer' evolved. It is interesting to see how these concepts have continued to persist throughout religious and political history with groups stigmatizing others not in their group (whether it be religious, political, racial, etc.) as being 'of the devil'. Dictatorships and other authoritarian organizations always need an external enemy to bind their followers together.

The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels (Professor, Princeton University)

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Satan-Elaine-...8513&sr=8-3

Kindly,

Sean

Edited April 22, 2007 by seanph

[Barek Halfhand]

There is no biblical reference specifically that points to satan being the chief musician in heaven before he was cast out. But I have heard it from a few people and was wondering if anyone else has also heard this as well? If you have heard of this as well what are your thoughts on it? Where did you get the info from? The only real passage that tells of satan's roll in heaven was that in Job 1-2 were satan is presented as the accuser of believers in a heavenly court. Personally I don't know for sure if he was the chief musician, but I think he just might of been. Also this if you are just going to come to this thread saying "satan doez not existz ok?" then why bother posting, i'm sure there are more interesting threads for you. Serious responses only please.

Yes he was..........

Mr Halfhand

Edited April 22, 2007 by Barek Halfhand

[MissMelsWell]

Yeah I feel the same way man. Completely agree. I'd also like to think the atheist community for not coming in here with the "satan does not exist" stuff...thank you for being considerate.

Tough luck, because I'm feeling surly today, I'm a Christian that's going to waltz in and say "Satan does not exist." He is only an allegory for evil, excess and temptation. I am a monotheist, I believe in ONE deity, that would be God, and his human incarnation on earth, Jesus. But now that I said that I won't bother you again.

Aww barek, I'm disappointed, you should have posted a picture of Lemmy Killmeister.

Edited April 22, 2007 by MissMelsWell

[MaiTino]

Michael whooped his butt, But loves him all the same.

Lucifer has been redeemed and shines bright with the love of God, Heavenly Mother and Father.

He also rides in the apocalypse of this world, under the name of Death as a councilor helping hearts to decide which world they will be going next.

Because Father and Mother, the Holy Spirit can and do redeem the lowest of the lows, one must realise that a special son , as Lucifer was prophesised to have a change of heart and shine like one of God's sons.

He was born with a tear from Father's eyes when his spirit was created, and is beloved by Father , and Mother (God), and The Holy Host (our Family).

Satan on the otherhand who is not Lucifer, changes by the minuit, as one satan changes his heart twards good and love , another spirit is waiting to take this title, untill he learns that true Love cannot be forced.

Heavenly Father is the chief Musician in Heaven, who plays all instruments, and has a voice which sounds like all the angels singing at once, Followed by Mother who playes them all too and sounds like all the angels singing at the same time with a Feminin quality. Her voice , and singing can heal anything and is amazing if one ever hears it, it wil sound like a thousand angels all harmonising with every sound in the Universe.

Love Omnaka

I really like this Edited April 22, 2007 by nn23

[Omnaka]

Interesting. One question I have for you is where did you get this story of Lucifer's redemption? I have never heard it before. From my study and belief I see Lucifer as Satan. He became the accuser when he was cast out to the earth. He does have enterance into Heaven but he can no longer live their and neither can the other fallen. Also redemption and forgivness is made for man not angel. I do not know what plan God has for the Angels fallen or Heavenly and as a man it is probably not my place to believe I do. Also another aspect I have allways believed in is that since Lucifer's rebellion he perhaps could have been forgiven but refuses to accept it due to his rebellious and power hungry nature. And then perhaps there is no Hell for Lucifer since as Satan it is his job to test and tempt man with sin to see if they are worthy of enterance to Heaven or not when Judgement comes. One cant be damned for doing his job, especially when he does it so well and for God.

One more thought. Since Lucifer/Satan is considered the anti of God and his whole goal is to lead us away from God and into damnation, Wouldnt it be true that when we discuss him as a noble, poetic, and missguided creature we are giving him that edge over us that makes us think that he isnt all that bad? So in a sense we are allowing ourselves to be led astray by him when we say, oh that devil, he aint so bad or he's pretty cool or that poor soul and ect. When in reality he cares nothing for us aside from his goal that we are a part of. It's like those Satanic cultist that believe that if they follow and worship him they'll have a nice seat of authority in Hell or Heaven when he finally overthrows God or whatever else they believe.

I got the story Of Lucifer from Heavenly Father, If Father Can redeem The lowest of the lows , Do you not think he would redeem one of his special sons?

I get my info from God , Not a book which was written in the infancy of this world.

You judge Lucifer and The other angels from what you have read in a book, which was written in the infancy of this world.

The only thing not subject to change is change itself.

"One more thought. Since Lucifer/Satan is considered the anti of God and his whole goal is to lead us away from God and into damnation, Wouldnt it be true that when we discuss him as a noble, poetic, and missguided creature we are giving him that edge over us that makes us think that he isnt all that bad? So in a sense we are allowing ourselves to be led astray by him when we say, oh that devil, he aint so bad or he's pretty cool or that poor soul and ect. When in reality he cares nothing for us aside from his goal that we are a part of. It's like those Satanic cultist that believe that if they follow and worship him they'll have a nice seat of authority in Hell or Heaven when he finally overthrows God or whatever else they believe.

Hewa"

Again who is considering Lucifer to be anti God?? Pat Robertson??? The Moral majority???

Lucifer’s spirit was born before The moral Majority and was subject to The same misguiding and sins as the rest of those spirits which came down in body (You and Me), and because he is not Satan, one can judge him all they want, but this will not change the fact that he has learned his lessons and is beloved by God, and is not Satan. But it probably makes it easier to blame someone else, for how one acts towards his Bro while down here on Earth,

in essence using Him as a scapegoat for the transgressions of the individual.

God (Father and Mother), do not get over thrown, and Lucifer is apart of the heavenly Family, no matter how a spirit incarnate judges him.

Imo, it is the human who is the Noble, poetic, misguided creature who does not take accountability for his transgressions, or choices, and needs to put the reactions or consequences from his choices on another whether it be Jesus , or Lucifer or Satan.

Pointing fingers at others faults does not take away from the finger pointers faults, or give the finger pointer Points for doing this.

One is not led by Satan, and has freewill to do Good or bad, to live in fear or love, for we are all accountable for the choices we make. And the Satan one fights is his own self who can be good or bad.

Or one can give up his freewill and say they did it because Satan made them do it, which is a cop out Imo. also saying Jesus died for their sins is a cop out saying one cannot take responsibility for his own sins, I see many similarities.

Love Omnaka

Edited April 22, 2007 by Omnaka

[Omnaka]

could you please tell me where you found that lucifer has been redeemed, also if satan is not lucifer then where did he come from. thanks

God shared this information with me.

His (Lucifer's) spirit was created/ born # 6 in a line of spirit sons Born with a tear from Heavenly Father's eyes, There are less than 100 of these special sons. Jesus was # 12, ande Michael is the first born spirit of God,Heavenly Father and Mother.

Michael's first incarnation was Adam.

Love Omnaka

[hewa]

One more thought. Since Lucifer/Satan is considered the anti of God and his whole goal is to lead us away from God and into damnation, Wouldnt it be true that when we discuss him as a noble, poetic, and missguided creature we are giving him that edge over us that makes us think that he isnt all that bad? So in a sense we are allowing ourselves to be led astray by him when we say, oh that devil, he aint so bad or he's pretty cool or that poor soul and ect. When in reality he cares nothing for us aside from his goal that we are a part of. It's like those Satanic cultist that believe that if they follow and worship him they'll have a nice seat of authority in Hell or Heaven when he finally overthrows God or whatever else they believe.

Hewa

Again who is considering Lucifer to be anti God?? Pat Robertson??? The Moral majority???

Lucifer’s spirit was born before The moral Majority and was subject to The same misguiding and sins as the rest of those spirits which came down in body (You and Me), and because he is not Satan, one can judge him all they want, but this will not change the fact that he has learned his lessons and is beloved by God, and is not Satan. But it probably makes it easier to blame someone else, for how one acts towards his Bro while down here on Earth,

in essence using Him as a scapegoat for the transgressions of the individual.

Which part are you mentioning my name in? Are you saying that I'm a Satanist/Cultist, or that I'm classifying Lucifer wrong?