Was satan the chief musician in heaven?

[Omnaka]

Which part are you mentioning my name in? Are you saying that I'm a Satanist/Cultist, or that I'm classifying Lucifer wrong?

You, IMO are clasifying THe spirit Brother Lucifer, from heresay , or what your interpretation of what someone elses belief from an other translation of what they have read.

You are OK to believe as you wish and Judge lucifer as you wish, but this does not make it so, and IMO, is only an way to blame ones transgressions on another instead of being accountable for their own.

Lucifer plays no part in the choices one makes while incarnate, and anyone can be Satan, depending on The choices he makes.

There will be alot of sad spirits who thought they would be blaming The spirit Satan for what they themsef have done, after this life when They become pure consciousness (Spirit) hfind it was freewill all the way, and the accountability of the individual spirit will fall on the Spirit, not God Or Jesus, or Lucifer, or even an entity which some call Satan.

Love Omnaka

Love Omnaka

[Barek Halfhand]

I got the story Of Lucifer from Heavenly Father, If Father Can redeem The lowest of the lows , Do you not think he would redeem one of his special sons?

I get my info from God , Not a book which was written in the infancy of this world.

You judge Lucifer and The other angels from what you have read in a book, which was written in the infancy of this world.

The only thing not subject to change is change itself.

One more thought. Since Lucifer/Satan is considered the anti of God and his whole goal is to lead us away from God and into damnation, Wouldnt it be true that when we discuss him as a noble, poetic, and missguided creature we are giving him that edge over us that makes us think that he isnt all that bad? So in a sense we are allowing ourselves to be led astray by him when we say, oh that devil, he aint so bad or he's pretty cool or that poor soul and ect. When in reality he cares nothing for us aside from his goal that we are a part of. It's like those Satanic cultist that believe that if they follow and worship him they'll have a nice seat of authority in Hell or Heaven when he finally overthrows God or whatever else they believe.

Hewa

Again who is considering Lucifer to be anti God?? Pat Robertson??? The Moral majority???

Lucifer’s spirit was born before The moral Majority and was subject to The same misguiding and sins as the rest of those spirits which came down in body (You and Me), and because he is not Satan, one can judge him all they want, but this will not change the fact that he has learned his lessons and is beloved by God, and is not Satan. But it probably makes it easier to blame someone else, for how one acts towards his Bro while down here on Earth,

in essence using Him as a scapegoat for the transgressions of the individual.

God (Father and Mother), do not get over thrown, and Lucifer is apart of the heavenly Family, no matter how a spirit incarnate judges him.

Imo, it is the human who is the Noble, poetic, misguided creature who does not take accountability for his transgressions, or choices, and needs to put the reactions or consequences from his choices on another whether it be Jesus , or Lucifer or Satan.

Pointing fingers at others faults does not take away from the finger pointers faults, or give the finger pointer Points for doing this.

One is not led by Satan, and has freewill to do Good or bad, to live in fear or love, for we are all accountable for the choices we make. And the Satan one fights is his own self who can be good or bad.

Or one can give up his freewill and say they did it because Satan made them do it, which is a cop out Imo. also saying Jesus died for their sins is a cop out saying one cannot take responsibility for his own sins, I see many similarities.

Love Omnaka

a prime example of how the deception works....a poetic misguided creature?.....more like pathetic misguided cretin....

Mr Halfhand.....

lemmy who?

Edited April 22, 2007 by Barek Halfhand

[hewa]

You, IMO are clasifying THe spirit Brother Lucifer, from heresay , or what your interpretation of what someone elses belief from an other translation of what they have read.

You are OK to believe as you wish and Judge lucifer as you wish, but this does not make it so, and IMO, is only an way to blame ones transgressions on another instead of being accountable for their own.

Lucifer plays no part in the choices one makes while incarnate, and anyone can be Satan, depending on The choices he makes.

There will be alot of sad spirits who thought they would be blaming The spirit Satan for what they themsef have done, after this life when They become pure consciousness (Spirit) hfind it was freewill all the way, and the accountability of the individual spirit will fall on the Spirit, not God Or Jesus, or Lucifer, or even an entity which some call Satan.

Love Omnaka

Love Omnaka

Well actually my answer was based purely in a sociologic way. I don't believe any of these magic religions at all.

[ND-DAVE]

I am impressed you have such a prophectic bond with God Omnaka, if that is what it is. But I want you to read what I have below none the less.

The Devil is the Prince of Lies and all deception. As I said before he wants you to believe he is redemed or good. Also I have learned through my experience that he works most and best when he is using the Word of God. For example, who would you trust? A bright beutiful angel who comes to you in the night telling you of prophecy and good will or a raging evil monstrous demon who grabs you by the throat and demands your soul? The devil wants you to love him and feel for him. He wants to disillusion you from believing in Heaven and God. And how by making you believe in a God of his creation. The Devil clouds the mind and influences us to follow down a path created by him.

As I said before the Devil does not want us dead or our souls, he want us led astray from the path to the Father. He is using one of the oldest tricks in the book. And accually if you watch any action flicks you'll know this trick. If you cant hurt the hero physically do it mentaly. For example the bad guy cant beat the hero head on so he sneaks around and takes his wife and family and kills them to get at the hero.

If I cant take your thrown I'll take what you hold dear the most. Man and the earth. And if you look over the long line of sinners, he's doing a pretty good job. Why do you think that the Devil was so persistent on tempting Christ and having him killed. Because he was God's trump card when it came to our salvation. So now the Devil has changed his game plan from accusser to deciever. It now takes more than sin to breach the path to heaven, now he must convince us that Heaven doesnt exist.

[Omnaka]

I have been tempted by The one all mcall the devil, and it is not Lucifer, again the one who holds this title, can change by the minuit, there is no one devil but many and it is a choice for all to Love God and all that is good, or to submit to the devil and his tricks and Fear.

It is the Father I Speak To, But I have had words, More than words with Evil entities, I could very well call the Father Of Lies, and deciet.

This one I speak of I will not mention his name, But Is not my bro Lucifer, who has repented and learned freom his mistakes, turning his sins in to blessings, as we all mcan do.

If one of us humans messes up, then realises it, then asks for forgiveness, From God, the one hurt by the action, and self, truly learning the difference between right and wrong, and choosing right he has turned his sin in to a blessing.

The angels can learn in this same way, and do, for there is no stronger warrior for God, than one who has transgressed, seen his error, and chosen good and love. There by making an strong experienced warrior for good who can smell evil an Eon away.

Love Omnaka

[ND-DAVE]

I have been tempted by The one all mcall the devil, and it is not Lucifer, again the one who holds this title, can change by the minuit, there is no one devil but many and it is a choice for all to Love God and all that is good, or to submit to the devil and his tricks and Fear.

It is the Father I Speak To, But I have had words, More than words with Evil entities, I could very well call the Father Of Lies, and deciet.

This one I speak of I will not mention his name, But Is not my bro Lucifer, who has repented and learned freom his mistakes, turning his sins in to blessings, as we all mcan do.

If one of us humans messes up, then realises it, then asks for forgiveness, From God, the one hurt by the action, and self, truly learning the difference between right and wrong, and choosing right he has turned his sin in to a blessing.

The angels can learn in this same way, and do, for there is no stronger warrior for God, than one who has transgressed, seen his error, and chosen good and love. There by making an strong experienced warrior for good who can smell evil an Eon away.

Love Omnaka

Your bro Lucifer? The one you speak to will not mention his name? How do you know this is not Lucifer? How do you know if you are even talking to God? Have you ever questioned the source you speak of? And dont worry God doesnt mind questions. He accually prefers them. Because if you do not question how do you really know the answers you are looking for? You make it sound like you have it all figured out. So how do you tell one rock from the other if the both look alike without investigating them?

[Omnaka]

Your bro Lucifer? The one you speak to will not mention his name? How do you know this is not Lucifer? How do you know if you are even talking to God? Have you ever questioned the source you speak of? And dont worry God doesnt mind questions. He accually prefers them. Because if you do not question how do you really know the answers you are looking for? You make it sound like you have it all figured out. So how do you tell one rock from the other if the both look alike without investigating them?

I have investigated them I don't recall saying I havent and or I have only believed what I was told.

It is God the father and Mother I talk withWho come when I call, or pray. I know. That's good enough for me.

Believe bMe when I say once one has Met Father and Mother God One Knows it.

I was baptised By God our Father in the woods behind our house, it was the most glorious celibration w/ Thousands of the Holy Host attending.

No drugs or drink except Holy water. My wife and Heaven are my witness. it was the First time meeting Heavenly Father Face to Face. This meeting was proceded by Many angels, who are actually my spirit brothers.

I do not use the one's name every one calls The devil, bedcause he is trouble, And I don't5 care to deal with him, or give him any power, to visit. Yes, just calling a spirit can bring them.

As for Lucifer If you want to try Blaming him For the worlds woes, or think he is satan, You will be very bummed after this life when He greets you as a representitive Of our Father and Mother, God.

He rides For God and the Good God Family in the apocalypse of this world.

It is understandable if you don't believe me. What I am telling you is still true though no matter what you believe.

One cannot change who someone is to God and the universe just by saying they are someone else. nor by speculating, this is why it is good not to judge what one does not know.

I like your signature.

Love Omnaka

Edited April 23, 2007 by Omnaka

[ND-DAVE]

I have investigated them I don't recall saying I havent and or I have only believed what I was told.

It is God the father and Mother I talk withWho come when I call, or pray. I know. That's good enough for me.

Believe bMe when I say once one has Met Father and Mother God One Knows it.

I was baptised By God our Father in the woods behind our house, it was the most glorious celibration w/ Thousands of the Holy Host attending.

No drugs or drink except Holy water. My wife and Heaven are my witness. it was the First time meeting Heavenly Father Face to Face. This meeting was proceded by Many angels, who are actually my spirit brothers.

I do not use the one's name every one calls The devil, bedcause he is trouble, And I don't5 care to deal with him, or give him any power, to visit. Yes, just calling a spirit can bring them.

As for Lucifer If you want to try Blaming him For the worlds woes, or think he is satan, You will be very bummed after this life when He greets you as a representitive Of our Father and Mother, God.

He rides For God and the Good God Family in the apocalypse of this world.

It is understandable if you don't believe me. What I am telling you is still true though no matter what you believe.

One cannot change who someone is to God and the universe just by saying they are someone else. nor by speculating, this is why it is good not to judge what one does not know.

I like your signature.

Love Omnaka

I was not questioning you to prove you wrong or say you were wrong. I was just seeing how true you were to your own beliefs and where they come from. I am very impressed by your level of faith. I also believe God shows himself to us in different ways so that we may all understand him.

And thank you for the complement. If there is anything that the Good Lord has taught me and cramed in my head is what is written there.

Thanks, D

[Omnaka]

I was not questioning you to prove you wrong or say you were wrong. I was just seeing how true you were to your own beliefs and where they come from. I am very impressed by your level of faith. I also believe God shows himself to us in different ways so that we may all understand him.

And thank you for the complement. If there is anything that the Good Lord has taught me and cramed in my head is what is written there.

Thanks, D

God bless you brother.

Love Omnaka

[Guyver]

The Book of Enoch - for Bumblesue - from what i know, the author is in question which is why it wasn't cannonized, although a copy appears in the dead sea scrolls. The Book of Enoch is available online (just google it or whatever). Enoch is interesting because he never died, he was translated or taken into heaven by God. His book is mentioned in Jude in the New Testament and therefore I think it's worth reading. It talks alot about the fallen angels.

[Omnaka]

Enoch is actually Heavenly Father's Father, who gave this world to Father to create ashe wished, he came down in Body to help out a little, Our spirit Family is very Big, After this world Father will still be around, to help with the worlds he gave his sons, this love will continue in to infinity.

Love Omnaka

[Barek Halfhand]

Enoch is actually Heavenly Father's Father, who gave this world to Father to create ashe wished, he came down in Body to help out a little, Our spirit Family is very Big, After this world Father will still be around, to help with the worlds he gave his sons, this love will continue in to infinity.

Love Omnaka

So wouldn't heavenly grandfather suffice?.....B

halfhandshuffle:slayer atdawntheysleep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox9b7uhobUM

[Barek Halfhand]

This one I speak of I will not mention his name, But Is not my bro Lucifer, who has repented and learned freom his mistakes, turning his sins in to blessings, as we all mcan do.

Love Omnaka

hey cuz...

when Barek thinks your a "wack ball"....its pretty bad!

halfhandshuffle:ramones-psycho therapy

[Omnaka]

hey cuz...

when Barek thinks your a "wack ball"....its pretty bad!

halfhandshuffle:ramones-psycho therapy

You must be sombody Then, Huh?

It's understandable if you don't believe or understand what I share, but what is not understandable is you judging me or calling me names, it's not nice.

But maybe you do not care about That.

Love Omnaka

[draconic chronicler]

Lucifer is a Christian invention hundreds of years after Jesus dwelled on the earth. This is why Lucifer is not mentioned in either the Old or New Testaments. The Jews never acknowledged Lucifer becasue it is an inept Christian mistranslation of a verse about the King o Babylon.

As for Satan being the leader of the celestial choir, the book of Isaiah states that the creatures around God who sing are fiery flying serpents, which is what the word Seraphim means in Hebrew. This seems to be confirmed later on in Pslams where it plainly states that it is dragons, not angels that sing praised to God. Satan was never a fallen angel, but described as a fying serpent or dragon, and therefore could be the leader of these creatures.

[Barek Halfhand]

Lucifer is a Christian invention hundreds of years after Jesus dwelled on the earth. This is why Lucifer is not mentioned in either the Old or New Testaments. The Jews never acknowledged Lucifer becasue it is an inept Christian mistranslation of a verse about the King o Babylon.

As for Satan being the leader of the celestial choir, the book of Isaiah states that the creatures around God who sing are fiery flying serpents, which is what the word Seraphim means in Hebrew. This seems to be confirmed later on in Pslams where it plainly states that it is dragons, not angels that sing praised to God. Satan was never a fallen angel, but described as a fying serpent or dragon, and therefore could be the leader of these creatures.

well you heard it here first ....I guess when you never get a date you have much more time to read up on that stuff....

Mr Halfhand

[Barek Halfhand]

You must be sombody Then, Huh?

MR Halfhand will do......

It's understandable if you don't believe or understand what I share, but what is not understandable is you judging me or calling me names, it's not nice.

So what your saying is that it is disrespectful to attack anothers beliefs?......

But maybe you do not care about That.

Love Omnaka

maybe I do care about that .....SO if it seems like you are being singled out, please dont feel that way ....Mr Halfhand takes on the whole room .....B

[Tanyek]

Well, music was forbiddened by the God. If you want to research it you should read the English translation of Quran. There you will find the answers in your question. As the Quran is the only book that hasn't been changed since it came to the people. Bible, Tora and Quaran were sent by the God as a guide for the people how to live in this world, but only Quran stayed without any change (innovations). These books were sent in different times 1) Tora, 2)Bible 3) Quran

The God sent first Tora to Moissei, but the poeple of Moissei betrayed him and started to pray to the Taurus, not to ONE GOD whom Moisei mentioned to his people. And Torra was changed during the hystory, then the God sent Jesus with the bible, but the bible was also changed during the hystory, the last whom the God sent was Mokhamed with Quran. What the God told is: I finished sending the prophits to the people and completed and improved the holly book -Quran and nobody will be able to change it.

[Nephilim_Slayer]

Well, music was forbiddened by the God. If you want to research it you should read the English translation of Quran. There you will find the answers in your question. As the Quran is the only book that hasn't been changed since it came to the people. Bible, Tora and Quaran were sent by the God as a guide for the people how to live in this world, but only Quran stayed without any change (innovations). These books were sent in different times 1) Tora, 2)Bible 3) Quran

The God sent first Tora to Moissei, but the poeple of Moissei betrayed him and started to pray to the Taurus, not to ONE GOD whom Moisei mentioned to his people. And Torra was changed during the hystory, then the God sent Jesus with the bible, but the bible was also changed during the hystory, the last whom the God sent was Mokhamed with Quran. What the God told is: I finished sending the prophits to the people and completed and improved the holly book -Quran and nobody will be able to change it.

I am curious of why the God of the Quran would forbid music?

[Radian]

Well, music was forbiddened by the God. If you want to research it you should read the English translation of Quran.

But I follow Jesus, and not Mohammed. So, it doesn't matter to me regardless. English translation or not.. :}

[Barek Halfhand]

Well, music was forbiddened by the God. If you want to research it you should read the English translation of Quran.

sorry, thats not on Oprahs' book club list! .......

Mr Halfhand

halfhandshuffle:jihad

Edited April 26, 2007 by Barek Halfhand

[fullywired]

Where then did the idea that satan was the chief musician come from. Again, the problem arises when we rely upon 17th century English. According to the KJV, Ez.28:13 reads in part: "... every precious stone was thy covering... the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created." (emphasis added) By really stretching, some believers have taken the word "pipes" to mean musical instruments. Therefore, according to their reasoning, since the Lucifer of Isaiah 14:12-14 is the same entity as the King of Tyre in Ez.28:13, and they are both satan, then satan must have played the pipes, and since he was the number one or two angel, he must have been the choir director. However, the Hebrew word translated as 'pipes' in the KJV is not a musical term. Rather, it is a technical term associated with jewelers which describes the place where stones are set. It has nothing whatsoever to do with music. As such, there is absolutely no Scriptural foundation to the chief musician portion of the fallen angel story either

[RAZU]

Yeah he was a rapper! he spit fire!!!!

[draconic chronicler]

Where then did the idea that satan was the chief musician come from. Again, the problem arises when we rely upon 17th century English. According to the KJV, Ez.28:13 reads in part: "... every precious stone was thy covering... the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created." (emphasis added) By really stretching, some believers have taken the word "pipes" to mean musical instruments. Therefore, according to their reasoning, since the Lucifer of Isaiah 14:12-14 is the same entity as the King of Tyre in Ez.28:13, and they are both satan, then satan must have played the pipes, and since he was the number one or two angel, he must have been the choir director. However, the Hebrew word translated as 'pipes' in the KJV is not a musical term. Rather, it is a technical term associated with jewelers which describes the place where stones are set. It has nothing whatsoever to do with music. As such, there is absolutely no Scriptural foundation to the chief musician portion of the fallen angel story either

The Prince of Tyre is the prince of Tyre, a very human political rival to the ancient state of Israel. There is no fallen angel in the book of Ezekiel. This is a Christian invention concocted hundreds of years after Jesus, because Christians were desperate to connect their Zoroastrian inspired dualistic religion to the Hebrew Bible. This is why no Lucifer is ever referred to in Judaism. Lucifer is a latin word in fact.

But this does not change the fact that fiery flying serpents (Seraphim) sing praises to God in the Book of Isaiah, and dragons (Tannin) sing praises to God in the book of Psalms. We might surmise then, that while the fallen angel Lucifer is a Christian myth, the authentic Satan, who is NEVER referred to as an angel in the Bible, but is some kind of obedient servant creature to Yahweh, might very well be one of the praise singing Seraphim-Dragons.

[Bunny Munro]

Well we all know Hell with have the best music, as it seems the greater the musician the greater the sinner in many cases.