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Paranoid Android

Create-a-messiah

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Paranoid Android

I've just been thinking recently about how people draw parallels and similarities with Jesus compared to other saviours/messiahs through history. In short, the argument goes something along the lines that other deities in other religions show similar traits or characteristics, or share parallel events in their lives, and therefore Jesus must be a simple copy-cat of earlier saviour-gods. So I thought I'd create a thread here to discuss ways to create a messiah that would be unique, that would not be subject to the arguments that other saviour-gods have been subjected to. Of course, the only stipulation I see is that it has to make sense - eg, it would not make sense to say that the saviour we create is different because he glows fluro-pink after eating brocolli. I guess we should start by looking at categories of the saviour's life:

Birth/Nature of birth - we can't have God-father/mortal mother, of course, since that is the approximate birth details of Jesus, and some other deities also. So there's saviours with both god-like parents, both mortal parents, a mortal father seducing a goddess, a trans-mutation of matter (eg, creating the saviour from a rock or a bird), or a unique non-birth incarnation (suddenly appearing out of thin air). All of these have been taken by various other gods through history, so we have to find something that has not been done, that is unique.

Early Childhood - was our saviour in its child-years mischevious, wise, learned, violent, etc. Remember, it has to be different to the formative years of other gods and goddesses.

Teachings - what did this messiah teach? What great insight into the human-condition is this messiah focusing on. How is this teaching different to the great insights given by other gods and messiahs through history?

Miracles - what miracles would he or she perform (if any). More importantly, what is the purpose of these miracles (doing miracles just to show their power is not a valid reason).

Death - what death will the messiah be subject to (natural causes, martyred, betrayed, etc). What is the significance (if any) of this death.

I'm sure i've left out some important categories, this is just a quick idea that I've just brainstormed in the past 5 minutes. If anyone thinks there is a vitally important category that I didn't mention, feel free to let me know. Maybe after looking at all these categories, we might come across a realistic saviour who cannot be accused of being a copycat of any previous deity.

Go crazy all: create-a-messiah, unique and different from all others, that we cannot accuse of being a copy-cat of previous saviours/gods.

Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android

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GreyWeather

Birth/Nature of birth - Born from the two primal gods, Osca (male) - the moulder - and Uscu (female) - the life breather. Gave life to PennPenn to create order and justice in the primal era of the world and returns every 1000 years - obvisually in different appearences, as Osca moulds new dolls for Uscu to breath PennPenn into. So he has neither a mortal mother or father. (P.S, the two Gods can only create and take life, thus they cannot create any other god, as gods they are neither living nor dead - they can create god's only in a mortal body thus drastically limiting their powers and life span significally.

Early Childhood - Is 'born' as a teenager, so no childhood.

Teachings - what did this messiah teach? To teach and bring law, justice and order. Other messiah's focus on love, Osca and Uscu know you cannot teach love.

Miracles - what miracles would he or she perform (if any)? Exceptional fighter, undeniable knowledge of science, math and language. Has a top priority with Osca and Uscu and uses this to communicate with them to create various objects to aid PennPenn in bringing about Law, Order and Justice (buildings ectect just appear when he asks)

Death - Once the Justice, law and order is in motion he may carry on living his mortal life, or if a war wages on - another nation trying to assassinate/take over the nation chosen to spread law, order and justice to benefit those on Earth, he fights alongside the soldiers and even though he has great fighting techniques and 'experience' with all weapons of the period, he can get slain but it gives the rest of the nation morale in spreading what he had taught. Once PennPenn is almost dead, Uscu takes his breath and stores it for the next time he is to be created again, this instantly destroys the doll howvever PennPenns breath - if not taken a few minutes before his mortal death - will travel through the afterlife and be born by mortal parents - bringing destruction through the mortal parents genes combined with the gods essence.

The nation chosen are the most influencial and powerful nations, to make the transition easier. PennPenn has no obligation to morals, however all life is important and connected, thus all laws he creates (always the same in each of his lives) benefit both humanity and the Earth as an entire.

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MissMelsWell

I was thinking about this topic last night and this morning. I actually tried my hand at it and quite honestly I couldn't come up with anything that was completely unique without sounding totally dopey.

It's a cool topic, and it would be interesting to see what people come up with. I just couldn't do it.

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Shadow_Hill

Ok, my go at this is going to sound sarcastic... but I gave this a great deal of thought, and I'm not just poking fun... so please don't think that that's all this is about. :)

Birth/Nature of birth

The Divine One, so vexed by the stupidity of mankind, sat contemplating a way forward for his creation. "How can it be that I have never interfered with man, and have never encouraged this worship, and yet he expends so much energy in doing it all the same?". His wife, having been asked to suggest solutions, put forward a plan to create a son and have that son steal the body of George W Bush. The Divine One was sceptical and said he thought even mankind wouldn't be stupid enough to accept Bush as the son of God, but eventually, after some fine tuning, he came around to the idea. So, after creating a son, the son's essence was injected into George Bush's body, and the president's essence was extracted at the same moment. Mrs God was charged with taking care of the president while his body was being occupied.

Early Childhood

The son of the Divine One did not have a childhood, as he was created and placed into the body of a fully grown president.

Teachings

George set about using his position of influence to guide the minds of mankind. He urged man to abandon all religious teachings, and cease seeking a better understanding of the Divine One in favour of seeking a better understanding of his fellow man. At first everyone thought George had gone insane, as he was talking sense and appeared quite likeable. He begged the citizens of all nations to turn from religious scriptures and use reason to determine the nature of the Divine Being... to use the brains they had been given, and to strive not for a connection with the Divine One but for a connection with mankind. He urged tolerance, the use of logic, mutual respect, and the abandonment of any teachings which promoted a greater interest in the future spiritual world than the current physical one.

Most of all he taught that no man should assert that he knew the Divine One better than his neighbour, for his words caused the Divine One much vexation.

Eventually his message began to take hold. Sales of religious books and icons fell all across the globe. Mankind was beginning to stand on his own two feet.

Miracles

Mankind had become a hard audience, but George would not be forced into performing miracles to convince man of his son of God status. He gave man the tools and knowledge to end world hunger and to bring about peace... he warned that it would take time, but that it could be achieved if man wasn't swayed away from the path he had laid out. He gave man the ability, but would not do the work for him... man's willingness to work himself out of hunger, war, and misery was fundamental in The Divine One's plan to demonstrate the power of mankind and the danger of relying upon some divine force to get the job done for you.

The Divine One commented to his wife that, since their son's arrival on earth, prayers had dropped by 98 percent. At the same time sales of arms had dropped.

Death

Just when George began to think that he was getting through to mankind something unexpected happened. The people, who had been so willing to abandon religions established long before his arrival, had looked to themselves and found their lives lacking... some had begun secretly worshipping George. One day a monument was errected to honour George, and the following weeks saw the erection of countless others, each one bigger than the last. George was enraged, the Divine One was sorely vexed, and Mrs God ran for cover as it had all been her idea.

George knew what he had to do. He stood before his devout followers, watched by millions of people who viewed his speech via the television news live broadcast, and denounced the Divine One. He cursed the Divine One's name and told mankind that there was no god. He was linched five minutes later.

Mankind was left godless. It floundered for a short time, but soon picked itself up and began to work on the plans which had been offered as a gift from George. Man dedicated himself to the pursuit of all things earthly, and the Divine One, his wife, and son dedicated themselves to all things outside the realms of man.

The president could not be returned to his body, as it had been linched. He was reincarnated as a poor gay atheist male.

Edited by Shadow_Hill

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Barek Halfhand

I would create him in my own image.....B

linked-image

Edited by Barek Halfhand

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Beckys_Mom

Nature of Birth

The Saviour was found in the Jungle by apes..............no one knews where he came from............just a note saying this is the new messiah.............but the apes..ate the note lol

He was then raised by apes

Childhood

Swung from branch to branch...........got tired and wanted to explore more, he felt he needed to find his real roots................he KNEW he was different...he could Communicate with any living creature...so he felt he should be able to look for more...even some like him

Teenage saviour...

travels out of the jungle.........meets other humans like him.............he is curious...but watches them.................soon befriends some of them..........and before he knows it............he can communicate with them........so easy..........he picks things up so fast................before they know it..this new ape kid.................teaches them.............but they give him a name - Salvador (Latin for saviour)

He recieves a vision, of an angle.............the angle tells Salvador...he was a chosen one................he had to evolve...starting from the animals..working his way up to humans...now he is ready to discover, who his father is....GOD also known as - SAM Meaning: He is called god

Origin: Hebrew

He then learns about his father SAM lol...and asks who gave birth to him........................the angle replies................I am your mother..........I am the angle of life...............to give you life and allow you to teach others the true path to eternal loving and everlasting life...but must follow your father in his kindom called - Paradi......if you sucseed...others will listen........they will follow your path and become - --- >> Salvadians................equals - Followers of Salvador lol

The angle of life...talked to Salvadore for hours ...soon Salavodore knew he had to go forth and dspread the word

He gets married...has a few sprogs...teaches them to be like him

Death - Salvadore dies of a unexplained heartattack................it is said he wasnt the same after his loving wife. Jane..passed away.............

LOL incase you are wondering...Salvador met his wife Jane outside the jungle....when introducing themselves to eachother -- Salvador says -- ME Salvadore YOU Jane !!! aaaaaeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhh *beats on chest* :w00t:

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Beckys_Mom
I would create him in my own image.....B

linked-image

What do you call that wrestler again??

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The Mule

George Pappa Bear Halas

Birth/Nature of birth - According to Wikipedia - George Halas was born in Chicago, Illinois, on February 2, 1895 to a family of Czechoslovakian immigrants. Oddly enough, according to Wikipedia itself, Czechoslovakia didn't exist until 1918!! (Insert Twilight Zone music here)

Early Childhood - as a child/young adult George played football, basketball, and baseball. He was the MVP of the 1919 Rose Bowl. All this after serving in the Navy during WWI. After that he played Major League baseball and football. Football is where he made his mark, as player coach of the Chicago Staley's and later player/coach/owner of the Chicago Bears.

Teachings - Going into George's football teaching is much to elaborite to extrapolate upon here, but he is credited with inventing the forward pass and the wing-T....proving the theory that pro football evolves. He is also credited with inventing the phantom injury to gain and extra timeout when he said "Taylor, we've got no time-outs left! Go in there and get yourself injured!"

The Missing Years - Like Jesus, George took a 3 year sabatical between 1930-1933. It is rumored that he worked for his father-in-law at the time, but there is no tangable proof of this being the case.

Miracles - in 1925 George signed Red Grange to a pro contact, elevating pro football to major league status. Inventing the forward pass as previously mentioned, which directly led to Franco Harris's "Emaculate Reception" in the 1970's. Defeated the Washington Redskins by the amazing score of 73-0 in the 1940 Championship game. Drafted Hall of Fame MLB DICK BUTKUS...if that name isn't a miracle I don't know what is. Drafted Gale Sayers and Brian Piccilo - thereby setting up the award winning movie "Brian's Song"... Transformed his initial $100 investment into the a franchise worth more than a half-BILLION dollars.

Death - Pappa Bear was crucified by the Chicago media on many occasions during his life, each time coming back, until he finally succumed to Cancer in 1983. Today the NFC Championship trophy bears his name, and his initials are still present on the Chicago Bears uniforms today.

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Barek Halfhand
George Pappa Bear Halas

Birth/Nature of birth - According to Wikipedia - George Halas was born in Chicago, Illinois, on February 2, 1895 to a family of Czechoslovakian immigrants. Oddly enough, according to Wikipedia itself, Czechoslovakia didn't exist until 1918!! (Insert Twilight Zone music here)

Early Childhood - as a child/young adult George played football, basketball, and baseball. He was the MVP of the 1919 Rose Bowl. All this after serving in the Navy during WWI. After that he played Major League baseball and football. Football is where he made his mark, as player coach of the Chicago Staley's and later player/coach/owner of the Chicago Bears.

Teachings - Going into George's football teaching is much to elaborite to extrapolate upon here, but he is credited with inventing the forward pass and the wing-T....proving the theory that pro football evolves. He is also credited with inventing the phantom injury to gain and extra timeout when he said "Taylor, we've got no time-outs left! Go in there and get yourself injured!"

The Missing Years - Like Jesus, George took a 3 year sabatical between 1930-1933. It is rumored that he worked for his father-in-law at the time, but there is no tangable proof of this being the case.

Miracles - in 1925 George signed Red Grange to a pro contact, elevating pro football to major league status. Inventing the forward pass as previously mentioned, which directly led to Franco Harris's "Emaculate Reception" in the 1970's. Defeated the Washington Redskins by the amazing score of 73-0 in the 1940 Championship game. Drafted Hall of Fame MLB DICK BUTKUS...if that name isn't a miracle I don't know what is. Drafted Gale Sayers and Brian Piccilo - thereby setting up the award winning movie "Brian's Song"... Transformed his initial $100 investment into the a franchise worth more than a half-BILLION dollars.

Death - Pappa Bear was crucified by the Chicago media on many occasions during his life, each time coming back, until he finally succumed to Cancer in 1983. Today the NFC Championship trophy bears his name, and his initials are still present on the Chicago Bears uniforms today.

god that WAS beautiful! :yes: (wipes away tear).....B

DA BEARS!

Edited by Barek Halfhand

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The Mule

Glad that someone could appreciate it!

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Paranoid Android

Leliel -

Birth/Nature of birth - Born from the two primal gods, Osca (male) - the moulder - and Uscu (female) - the life breather. Gave life to PennPenn to create order and justice in the primal era of the world and returns every 1000 years - obvisually in different appearences, as Osca moulds new dolls for Uscu to breath PennPenn into. So he has neither a mortal mother or father. (P.S, the two Gods can only create and take life, thus they cannot create any other god, as gods they are neither living nor dead - they can create god's only in a mortal body thus drastically limiting their powers and life span significally. In other words, he's the equivalent of a golem - a "doll" or creation that has been infused with life for a purpose. The original account of PennPenn may have its roots in stories of empty vessels being imbued with life.

Early Childhood - Is 'born' as a teenager, so no childhood. - So he's like Zeus (just one of many I could name) who can disguise himself as a human and walk amongst them. Through oral tradition, this story probably was embellished and became a deity in himself (maybe it originates from Ares, considering later you mention that PennPenn is a great warrior).

Teachings - what did this messiah teach? To teach and bring law, justice and order. Other messiah's focus on love, Osca and Uscu know you cannot teach love. - So he's like the Norse God Forseti, God of Justice, who espouses these same ideals.

Miracles - what miracles would he or she perform (if any)? Exceptional fighter, undeniable knowledge of science, math and language. Has a top priority with Osca and Uscu and uses this to communicate with them to create various objects to aid PennPenn in bringing about Law, Order and Justice (buildings ectect just appear when he asks) - just one question, please. How would this undeniable knowledge of science, math and language be conveyed to a civilisation nowhere near as advanced in knowledge.

Death - Once the Justice, law and order is in motion he may carry on living his mortal life, or if a war wages on - another nation trying to assassinate/take over the nation chosen to spread law, order and justice to benefit those on Earth, he fights alongside the soldiers and even though he has great fighting techniques and 'experience' with all weapons of the period, he can get slain but it gives the rest of the nation morale in spreading what he had taught. Once PennPenn is almost dead, Uscu takes his breath and stores it for the next time he is to be created again, this instantly destroys the doll howvever PennPenns breath - if not taken a few minutes before his mortal death - will travel through the afterlife and be born by mortal parents - bringing destruction through the mortal parents genes combined with the gods essence.

The nation chosen are the most influencial and powerful nations, to make the transition easier. PennPenn has no obligation to morals, however all life is important and connected, thus all laws he creates (always the same in each of his lives) benefit both humanity and the Earth as an entire. - Similar then to Achilles, who was a great warrior with great fighting skills. Though powerful, he could be killed if he was struck in the heel. This is obviously where this story originated, except that through the telling it has been edited and embellished to include a rebirth (which is in itself a common theme amongst deities).

Thanks for trying, Leliel. Maybe we'll get a unique messiah somewhere along the lines, but yours so far sounds copied from many other deities throughout history. For everyone else, I'll look at some of the other responses a little later, I've got assessments to do for uni now :) All the best,

Edited by Paranoid Android

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bornagainuhmanduh

This is quite difficult...well, here goes.

Birth/Nature of Birth- It's birth was accidental, the unintended consequence of mans technology. The great amoung of energy created on earth ebbing and flowing at one time created its own consciousness, something that could therefore join with the energy of all things living and non living.

Early Childhood-The Industrial revolution of Earth....it is an infant, not yet powerful enough to impose any change, not yet aware of its own consciousness.

Teachings- At first, the good and bad experiences and the implications of applied technology of the human existence. Then, the unity of all things.

Miracles-It's ability to reform and create all things...to rearrange matter and energy.

Death-It lives and dies as all things physically do, but it never ceases to exist because it is energy. It is infinite, which is complicated, but it was always there, it just wasn't aware of itself until it was "born".

Edited by uhmanduh

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Leonardo

Good thread, PA :tu: Makes you think...

Birth/Nature of Birth

The creator despaired of Man's ignorance and self-destructive ways so determined to send a Messiah. Born from the fruit of an almond tree, signifying wisdom, the Messiah was found and cared for from birth by the owner of the almond grove who was married but childless.

Early Childhood

Spent as a normal child, but the Messiah exhibited strange ways as a result of his/her unnatural birth. Helped in the almond grove and learnt about gardening and tree-doctoring etc.

Teachings

Had a great revelation upon reaching adulthood and began to teach people what it meant to be human (the Messiah was born not human but understood now what being human meant) and how to accept this condition. Teaches self-acceptance to learn how to accept others flaws and differences.

Miracles

None. This creator is wise and does not want Man to worship the Messiah, but the Creator. However see below.

Death

In understanding what it is to be human the Messiah becomes human and so becomes mortal (he was immortal as the non-human Messiah) and ages and dies, setting an example that our mortality is not to be feared. Upon death an almond tree grows from his corpse/grave.

Edited by Leonardo

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Shadow_Hill
In understanding what it is to be human the Messiah becomes human and so becomes mortal (he was immortal as the non-human Messiah) and ages and dies, setting an example that our mortality is not to be feared. Upon death an almond tree grows from his corpse/grave.

I like your Messiah. :yes:

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Ashley-Star*Child

And, the point of this is?

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Shadow_Hill
And, the point of this is?

Maybe to demonstrate that nobody can come up with an original concept, and therefore prove that any similarities between the life of Jesus and any religious figure born before him are meaningless and do not indicate that the Jesus character was based on earlier figures?

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GreyWeather
Leliel -

Birth/Nature of birth - Born from the two primal gods, Osca (male) - the moulder - and Uscu (female) - the life breather. Gave life to PennPenn to create order and justice in the primal era of the world and returns every 1000 years - obvisually in different appearences, as Osca moulds new dolls for Uscu to breath PennPenn into. So he has neither a mortal mother or father. (P.S, the two Gods can only create and take life, thus they cannot create any other god, as gods they are neither living nor dead - they can create god's only in a mortal body thus drastically limiting their powers and life span significally. In other words, he's the equivalent of a golem - a "doll" or creation that has been infused with life for a purpose. The original account of PennPenn may have its roots in stories of empty vessels being imbued with life.

Early Childhood - Is 'born' as a teenager, so no childhood. - So he's like Zeus (just one of many I could name) who can disguise himself as a human and walk amongst them. Through oral tradition, this story probably was embellished and became a deity in himself (maybe it originates from Ares, considering later you mention that PennPenn is a great warrior).

Teachings - what did this messiah teach? To teach and bring law, justice and order. Other messiah's focus on love, Osca and Uscu know you cannot teach love. - So he's like the Norse God Forseti, God of Justice, who espouses these same ideals.

Miracles - what miracles would he or she perform (if any)? Exceptional fighter, undeniable knowledge of science, math and language. Has a top priority with Osca and Uscu and uses this to communicate with them to create various objects to aid PennPenn in bringing about Law, Order and Justice (buildings ectect just appear when he asks) - just one question, please. How would this undeniable knowledge of science, math and language be conveyed to a civilisation nowhere near as advanced in knowledge.

Death - Once the Justice, law and order is in motion he may carry on living his mortal life, or if a war wages on - another nation trying to assassinate/take over the nation chosen to spread law, order and justice to benefit those on Earth, he fights alongside the soldiers and even though he has great fighting techniques and 'experience' with all weapons of the period, he can get slain but it gives the rest of the nation morale in spreading what he had taught. Once PennPenn is almost dead, Uscu takes his breath and stores it for the next time he is to be created again, this instantly destroys the doll howvever PennPenns breath - if not taken a few minutes before his mortal death - will travel through the afterlife and be born by mortal parents - bringing destruction through the mortal parents genes combined with the gods essence.

The nation chosen are the most influencial and powerful nations, to make the transition easier. PennPenn has no obligation to morals, however all life is important and connected, thus all laws he creates (always the same in each of his lives) benefit both humanity and the Earth as an entire. - Similar then to Achilles, who was a great warrior with great fighting skills. Though powerful, he could be killed if he was struck in the heel. This is obviously where this story originated, except that through the telling it has been edited and embellished to include a rebirth (which is in itself a common theme amongst deities).

Thanks for trying, Leliel. Maybe we'll get a unique messiah somewhere along the lines, but yours so far sounds copied from many other deities throughout history. For everyone else, I'll look at some of the other responses a little later, I've got assessments to do for uni now :) All the best,

haha, yeah... Still, PennPenn doesn't share the same story as another single being - Jesus & Horus, Jesus & Mithra ectect.

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The Gremlin
And, the point of this is?

i think the point of this is to conclude that its ok that jesus is compared with other messiah/saviour figures, and that it doesnt mean he didnt exist or do those things, or that he really isnt God/son of god.

by showing how difficult it is for us to create an unique messiah, PA hopes to show that unless we stray into the absurd, there will always be similarities between such figures.

As PA says this thread is a response to the arguments that the stories of jesus christ have their origins in other cultures, with other messianic or saviour type figures.

im not sure the response is a valid one.

edit for sounding too negative...it does make for a fun, interesting excersise tho.

Edited by lil gremlin

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bornagainuhmanduh
Maybe to demonstrate that nobody can come up with an original concept, and therefore prove that any similarities between the life of Jesus and any religious figure born before him are meaningless and do not indicate that the Jesus character was based on earlier figures?

:tu: I must agree, the wise shadow is right on there I think. Although as lil gremlin said, it is a fun interesting exercise.

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Beckys_Mom
:tu: I must agree, the wise shadow is right on there I think. Although as lil gremlin said, it is a fun interesting exercise.

Ashley star child don't think so LMAO

I think...could this well be how man created Jesus?? hmmmmmmmmm only one can wonder lol

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MissMelsWell

I"m still thinking about this and STILL can't come up with anything that hasn't been done before... I can come up with a lot of silly stuff that sounds like a parody, but I can bet because my ideas are so stupid, I'd be the one and ONLY member of my "new" faith... ever. haha

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The Mule
I"m still thinking about this and STILL can't come up with anything that hasn't been done before... I can come up with a lot of silly stuff that sounds like a parody, but I can bet because my ideas are so stupid, I'd be the one and ONLY member of my "new" faith... ever. haha

are you kidding? 59 million people voted for Bush...surely someone will buy your new messiah..

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MissMelsWell
are you kidding? 59 million people voted for Bush...surely someone will buy your new messiah..

Bwahahahahha! Good POINT! haha.

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Paranoid Android
Maybe to demonstrate that nobody can come up with an original concept, and therefore prove that any similarities between the life of Jesus and any religious figure born before him are meaningless and do not indicate that the Jesus character was based on earlier figures?
That may be an ulterior agenda for this thread, and the reason I originally thought about starting this thread. However, the reason I actually started this thread (as opposed to simply making a post in another thread) was to see if we could creatively come up with a completely unique messiah. I thought it would be...... fun :tu:

haha, yeah... Still, PennPenn doesn't share the same story as another single being - Jesus & Horus, Jesus & Mithra ectect.
I'm afraid the similarities aren't quite as obvious as some people would like to make out. But I see your point ;)

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The Mule

Can I make an OJ-Anti Christ to go along with my Halas messiah?

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