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Sherapy

spare the rod ..spoil the child

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Sherapy
The thing is, if we can't smack (and I mean smack, not beat with the back of a hairbrush) a child, nor shout when they do something stupid so as to be a danger to themselves or others, what exactly do we do?

One bright spark advocated the idea that if you are pregnant and also have a two year old toddler and take the kiddie on a picnic, but the kid keeps running off towards the duck pond, you should immediately run after him and bring him back without any reprimand - better still, do it for as long as it needs, EVEN if it takes all day! Hmmm that sounds great, a seven month pregnant woman trying to run after a toddler on grass!

The thing is, what kids do doesn't just affect themselves or their immediate families, it can affect everyone around them, from other kids at school to neighbours in their street. If they are never taught right from wrong, they will firstly start off as irritating, then they will turn into brats and then later on nuisances that will have ASBOs slapped on them (which will not stop them anyway). A woman I knew who had a two year old (with sharp teeth I hasten to add) bit her on the bottom of her calf, whilst she was in the queue at a greengrocers one day, tell me what she should have done whilst she is nursing broken skin by a brat?

I smacked my daughters five times (between them) up until the age of two after that I NEVER had to do so again. Personally, I never wanted them to end up as tearaways, I wanted them to be liked and make friends - which they did.

We are not allowed to smack nowadays, but people are now saying we mustn't shout either? So what exactly do we do, please don't say run after the kids, that means they will run us all ragged and will end up being the bosses over the parents. That doesn't sound the healthy way around.

The problem is, you can't reason with small kiddies, it is said that whatever they learn in their first seven years, stays with them. If we don't gain some control, they will not learn and we will end up with even more kids that run riot than we already have.

By the way, I am not saying we should beat our kids, nothing could be further from the truth, but the way the Authorities are going, soon they may as well round all our kids up and teach them all themselves, because as sure as eggs are eggs, they are stripping away any choices we can make as to how we bring our own children up.

lotus you don't need to do any of it why is it that its assumed there is no other way?? my gosh there are so many alternatives..i agree with the new laws 100 percent and the no yelling also, i feel its about time , it doesn't work to harm our kids and call it teaching......for every two kids that is hit one is abused ... its serious and its putting violent adults in society.... on the sin thread there are some good storys of teaching kids by myself, shadow, ( she has wonderful suggestions) and miss wells....

Edited by Supra Sheri

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chaostrom

There should be no law to parenting... There are so many factors, it's not funny. The character of the child, their capabilities, the relationship they have, the way they interact, how they learn, vital traits such as empathy, sympathy, morality etc... It is, I believe, one of the factors that causes so many problematic people in civilisation. Think about it - for instance, what kind of law do tribal people have for parenting? None as far as I know. How many sociopaths, serial killers and psychopaths do tribal people bring up? Few, if any at all. Comparatively, how many religions have some law for parenting? Plenty. And how many religious fanatics have had a less than ideal childhood (often) because of those religious laws? Most I've heard about.

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IamsSon
Son, the girl is 15..she just starts crying at the sight of her Dad....13, 7, 9, 15 on the boys.......I have a freind that works at CPS, i ask alot of questions, I probalby drive her nuts........in many cases calling CPS can help the folks will get parenting classes and counseling but there is the risk of removing a child from their home, its a tough call, i have never called on anyone, as harsh as i seem on here i know that paretns are doing their best with what they know and few really understand the outcome of punishment as a cultuer we odn't at this point....... I would honor the family and speak with them first., before ever dropping a dime......... ..CPS in California is hard core, they don't play when it comes to kids.. you'd be surprised at how many will apprecaite you talking with them and seek help...

If this girl cries at the sight of her father, then she's not just getting spanked, Sheri, she's being abused... there is a HUGE difference. I know you see it as all the same, but it's not, for someone to still be hitting their kids at 13, or 15, they are not disciplining these kids, they are abusing them. And if they are abusing children, these parents need to be stopped, because most likely you're not just stopping them, you're stopping a cycle that will keep repeating.

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bumblesue
The thing is, if we can't smack (and I mean smack, not beat with the back of a hairbrush) a child, nor shout when they do something stupid so as to be a danger to themselves or others, what exactly do we do?

One bright spark advocated the idea that if you are pregnant and also have a two year old toddler and take the kiddie on a picnic, but the kid keeps running off towards the duck pond, you should immediately run after him and bring him back without any reprimand - better still, do it for as long as it needs, EVEN if it takes all day! Hmmm that sounds great, a seven month pregnant woman trying to run after a toddler on grass!

The thing is, what kids do doesn't just affect themselves or their immediate families, it can affect everyone around them, from other kids at school to neighbours in their street. If they are never taught right from wrong, they will firstly start off as irritating, then they will turn into brats and then later on nuisances that will have ASBOs slapped on them (which will not stop them anyway). A woman I knew who had a two year old (with sharp teeth I hasten to add) bit her on the bottom of her calf, whilst she was in the queue at a greengrocers one day, tell me what she should have done whilst she is nursing broken skin by a brat?

I smacked my daughters five times (between them) up until the age of two after that I NEVER had to do so again. Personally, I never wanted them to end up as tearaways, I wanted them to be liked and make friends - which they did.

We are not allowed to smack nowadays, but people are now saying we mustn't shout either? So what exactly do we do, please don't say run after the kids, that means they will run us all ragged and will end up being the bosses over the parents. That doesn't sound the healthy way around.

The problem is, you can't reason with small kiddies, it is said that whatever they learn in their first seven years, stays with them. If we don't gain some control, they will not learn and we will end up with even more kids that run riot than we already have.

By the way, I am not saying we should beat our kids, nothing could be further from the truth, but the way the Authorities are going, soon they may as well round all our kids up and teach them all themselves, because as sure as eggs are eggs, they are stripping away any choices we can make as to how we bring our own children up.

i agree. i am alot older then alot of you on here. i have 2 kids. a daughter who is 33 and a son who is 30. i now have a granddaughter who is just turning 2. i was raised by a abusive father. he is dead now. he was abused. very badly. so he tried not to do the same to us. i was the oldest so i got most of it. i moved out when i was 20 and he started on my sisters so i moved back in so he would get me and not them. the harm that was caused is with me today, but i have trouble blaming him all the way as he himself got it worse then i got it. he finally pulled away from us kids and let my mother do anything that applied to us. she drank herself to death in 94. he got alszhimer(bad spelling) and i took care of him until his death in 2004. i could not even tell him i loved him evn as he was dying. it still bothers me. i think i did. i said i would never do to my kids what was done to me.i didnt. but i did spank them on their behinds when they would defy me. not beat but spank. my husband was a truck driver and not around much,but when he was home all he had to do was speak and they would do. my kids have friend that were raised with no spanking or disipline and had good childhoods. now that they are adults they think the world owes them a living. they dont think they should be punished for anything they do. they dont see that when you do wrong as adults your mom or dad that didnt punish you cant come and rescue you now. you are adult and it falls on you. if we raise all the kids that are alive right now without any kind of punishment for what they do wrong we better be ready to deal with some major problems when they are grown. what you are seeing as working is on small children. you cannot see what kind of adult they will make. there is a big difference between spanking and beating, punishing and abuse. for anyone that finds my post offencive remember this is just my op.

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Sherapy
Good luck getting a clear answer, Lotus Flower...all I've seen is telling people what they are doing wrong without revealing their own parenting styles. Excuse me, except telling people how loving, well adjusted, and intelligent their children are.

I'd be interested in knowing how they taught the kids not to stick things in an electrical outlet, not to touch a hot stove, not to stick anything and everything in their mouths, not to cry when they want something, not write on the walls, not pull a whole roll of toilet paper through the house, not run out into the street, don't go with strangers, don't climb on things they aren't supposed to, don't get into the medicine cabinet....

All I can figure is that the kids were brilliant and perfect from the time they were born.

Its the lovely michelle nice ot see you ...

Michelle what you are doing is equating responsiblilty with punishment my freind, this will not teach responsibility what it will teach is how to take a fall or how to take your medicine....

my friend responsibility doesn't mean guilt either, rather it means willingness to do whatever you can to make the outcomes you produce the best they can possibly be for everyone involved.....its about being honest which means being aware of what it is you really know......this is a great sign of maturity and i often call this self correcting.... when one uses punishment they are teaching how to avoid being punsihed basically, this will not serve you or your child....when i use natural parenting ....

i am talking about parenting in awareness, its about being keenly aware of the whys, the whats. the hows, what is going on why is this going on what am i learning, how can i apply the wisdoms i am gaining, how do i get the results i intend , what are the most probables, of my choices and what has made them this way, to live in awareness means you would not pretend you don't know..when you do know.....this is the child who self corrects this is what they behave like this is what i model as a parent ......this starts at birth its a style of pareting so by the time the child is two they are in the early stages of self correcting....you are describing kids that maybe arent' supervised enough, .....ther is also the extreme of not hitting and this is called obver indulgent parenting this is not what i 'm referring to....

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Sherapy
There should be no law to parenting... There are so many factors, it's not funny. The character of the child, their capabilities, the relationship they have, the way they interact, how they learn, vital traits such as empathy, sympathy, morality etc... It is, I believe, one of the factors that causes so many problematic people in civilisation. Think about it - for instance, what kind of law do tribal people have for parenting? None as far as I know. How many sociopaths, serial killers and psychopaths do tribal people bring up? Few, if any at all. Comparatively, how many religions have some law for parenting? Plenty. And how many religious fanatics have had a less than ideal childhood (often) because of those religious laws? Most I've heard about.

C this is well said you are so right each child is different you can certainly have core principles but the child has to be the main consideration an it is a commitmwnt you get a huge awakening when you see jsut how much of a commitment few are prepared we have no prepartion for this soemthig this important.... one may be active one maybe quiet and calm and as a parent you adjust to accomodate the child create an enviorment that allows for their natualrness... some will be easier than others there are no hard or fast rules.... i have a very hard time saying what i do it depends on the situation i have core principles that guide me but each moment is unique....

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Mad Manfred

I always thought it meant "don't hit the kid you bloody ******, give him some candy instead".

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Michelle

Well, EXACTLY HOW do you do that, is the question everyone is waiting with bated breath for you to answer, Sheri.

edit: After all, I can tell you exactly how I trained my dog without harm, raising my voice or any other abuse.

Edited by Michelle

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MissMelsWell

Like I said before, I was never hit, or even spanked, with the exception of the one the one time my father slapped me and I totally deserved it, I was 16. I was being the worst kind of kid you could have imagined at that point. It hurt him more than it did me, but boy oh boy did it drive the point home.

I was raised in an environment where there was little to no punishment. I think my mother tried to ground me once for abysmal grades combined with what she thought was me sneaking out of the house (I actually hadn't though, it was a mix up). It lasted all of about a day, my being me, turned it around on her the moment she asked me to take my sister to soccer practice, I lipped off and said no, I was grounded.

Regardless, we WERE disciplined, mother was just really creative about how she did that. I had a habit of skipping school, so mother decided if I was going to skip school, I was going to donate the time I'd wasted back to the community center or my least favorite, the retirement home. I learned from those punishments and in fact began to realize that I rather liked volunteering. Something I carried through to my adult years.

Point being, toddlers, kids, teens are NOT adults. They need to be taught that when you do something inappropriate or irresponsible some kind of consequence is in store.

I have some issues with the way I was raised. While my parents were consistent, they had almost no rules for us and mother wasn't big on dishing out punishment very frequently. It actually left me a little lost in some ways, I didn't truly grow up until I was in my early 20's. And the only reason that happened was because I ended up a single, mom at age 19. My own daughter was raised with rules, consistency, and yes, consequences (typically creative, she's a weirdo) for her actions. I was lucky in many ways, she was easy to raise, but she has her issues with me too. I even know what they are.

If you don't think your kids are going to have some complaints about how you parented, you're kidding yourself. For many years, I thought my parents were perfect, until I looked back and really analyzed my upbringing. Yes, I'm a productive, sucessful adult, my own child is terrific, but I wasn't perfect. I'll continue to be imperfect. Although, right now, I look at life today... my folks might be perfect grandparents. hahaha.

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Beckys_Mom
How old are these kids that are still getting hit?

Frankly, I have never met a kid who has been raised in a house where he was spanked to be disciplined that had to be spanked after the age of 8 or 9, so if these kids are still being hit, I can almost guarantee it's not discipline it's abuse of some sort.

My dad still beat me up till I was 22 years old, that's why i had to move out :blink:

I didnt want to post that...cuz it saddens me...digs up more bad memories.....like on my 20th birthday...nightmare, after being hit a lot on that day...the phone rings, its my school buddies from college...asking where i was they had a birthday gift for me..theat was a horrible day I wont ever forget...talking to them on the phone with tears in my eyes....things that haunt me :(

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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IamsSon
My dad still beat me up till I was 22 years old, that's why i had to move out :blink:

I didnt want to post that...cuz it saddens me...digs up more bad memories.........things that haunt me :(

Wow, BM, I'm really sorry to hear that! That's truly horrible.

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Sherapy
Well, EXACTLY HOW do you do that, is the question everyone is waiting with bated breath for you to answer, Sheri.

edit: After all, I can tell you exactly how I trained my dog without harm, raising my voice or any other abuse.

michelle i took you off ignore jsut for a minute i posted to chaos that adds a layer to my style of parenting i understand kids very well the stages they go through read all of piagets works a big fan... i have physcolgist freinds that i hang around with on a daily basis i ask alot of qusetions really for understanding and insight.....take classes, observe what parents i resepct do or how they treat their kids had a wonderful modle myslef i draw on that... ... in the end one decides how they will get from poiint A to b my style is exeprince i can't really says oh its this or that ....I apply the wisdoms I have gathered.. see how they work ...I'm not in the buisness of telling others what to do sorry...... .i jsut pay attention model the behavior i want this is a biggie if i don't want che che hitting chu chu i will not be hitting anyone and I use every available oppourtuniy to teach something usually by talking, using life to helo me teach ....I spend alot of time with my kids i home school and have time set aside to as quality one on one each day for my loves....the kid lets you know too what they need of you, the child also demonstarte to you by the behaviors what you need to let go of or change ..its very personal its very unique to each child....... ... i have no real issues i love parenting its fun and delightful, something new every day... maybe that is alot of the success the kids feel valued and enjoyable.....

Edited by Supra Sheri

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Beckys_Mom
Wow, BM, I'm really sorry to hear that! That's truly horrible.

Yea..I will never forget that in a hurry..it was all because i told my dad I cought my younger sister drinking...and how the cops where everywhere that night..I had to drag her home away from it all

my dad did not want to believe his lil baby girl woul do such a thing and she lied to him..and because he took her lies as gospel truth................I got beaten hard and had to call my BF gary to come get me.....................I never went back to live there again............it took me years to get over it all....and years to forgive :(

Thats why i dont want to beat my lil girl.............cuz I don't want her to grow up hating me, or not holding any respect for me

I didnt respect my dad, for beating me.........no respect at all

I have respect for him NOW, only because he said sorry a few years later...huh took him long enough :blink:

When i was 6 years old...my mom was ready to come home from hospital with our new baby sister.............my brother saw a big box of chocolates hidden unfer our parents bed and he ate most of them, my dad went nuts and my brother blamed me and was crafty to hide the box under my bed

My dad pulled the box from under my bed...turned to me...I looked at my brother, he was pointing the finger at me...............I was in total shock, cuz I had no idea the box was there.......then I heard my ear beep and all went black...i found myself on the floor..getting pulled up by the neck and beaten up..........thrown on top of my bed, and i lay there covered in bruises...crying my lamps out, not knowing WHY I got beaten up....

Later my brother came in and saw me covered in bruises.........his guilt kicked in

an hour later...my dad came into my room...with his head hung looking down and said -- "Geri love, im sorry, if you want to come down stairs, thats ok"

I was freaking 6 yrs old for crying out loud...my dad 6ft 3 like a gaint to me..beating me like that, for something I didnt do

he said sorry that time....but I didnt forgive him till i was 24 or so :(

He should have known better....he had those chocolates under his bed for my mom....he didnt tell me or my brother who they where for...nor did he say -- DONT TOUCH

my brother was just 5 yrs old...how many 5yr old kids would let a big box of chocolates slide?? :blink:

WOW that took a lot out of me just now...I am surprized I remembered it all

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IamsSon

Wow, Geri.

Yes, that is horrible. I was never beaten by either of my parents. I was spanked probably on a daily basis by my Mom... I was quite a little stinker :devil:

My Dad spanked me a lot less than my Mom because he was usually away at work, and my Mom was not a believer in, "Wait till your Dad gets home!"

But I was never beaten, my mom lost her temper once and did hit me harder than she should have and she was instantly sorry. I can't imagine ever being beaten like that, Geri. I'm so sorry!

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Michelle

Elusive as always, Sheri...no, you're not in the business of telling others what they should do, but you have no qualms about telling people what they shouldn't do.

You are great at blowing your own horn, but you can't back up what you believe because you don't have enough confidence. You rely on other peoples acceptance and when you don't have it, you wither.

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Sherapy
Elusive as always, Sheri...no, you're not in the business of telling others what they should do, but you have no qualms about telling people what they shouldn't do.

You are great at blowing your own horn, but you can't back up what you believe because you don't have enough confidence. You rely on other peoples acceptance and when you don't have it, you wither.

michelle you are telling more about yourself then me....geez chick you can't get anymore transparent... :wub: An analyst you aren't love....

Edited by Supra Sheri

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Beckys_Mom
Wow, Geri.

Yes, that is horrible. I was never beaten by either of my parents. I was spanked probably on a daily basis by my Mom... I was quite a little stinker :devil:

My Dad spanked me a lot less than my Mom because he was usually away at work, and my Mom was not a believer in, "Wait till your Dad gets home!"

But I was never beaten, my mom lost her temper once and did hit me harder than she should have and she was instantly sorry. I can't imagine ever being beaten like that, Geri. I'm so sorry!

You where lucky IAMS...very lucky...and thanks for the reply

My dad was weird like that he would have beat us black and vlue but at the same time....pushed education ...and religion on to us too lol...and at times he would have showed kindness...at christiams he made sure we had more toys than any other kid in our block...

My dad got worse beating from his dad..i guess it rubbed off on him

Thats why i wised up to it and want to make sure, my lil girl doesnt have to go through any of that

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MUM24/7

I feel better now so I'm going to contribute my 2 cents worth..... :P

I feel most parents try and do the best they can for their children.....It's the hardest job anybody will ever do in their life when done correctly......What I mean by 'correctly' is to produce decent, law-abiding and confident adults......

I have my ways of raising my kids, it's a mixture of time-outs, threats, bribery, very rare smacking, rewarding system and taking away priviledges.....Amongst all that, a tremendous amount of love, common sense and a lot of humour......Now before anyone gets excited, when I say threats, an example is, 'Please clean your room like I asked two times before or you'll not go over to play with the kids next door'.......Before you know it, the room is cleaned.....

Most importantly though is the fact that I talk to my kids constantly.......Obviously it's easier as they get older, toddlers aren't very good conversationalists :P and I have found that if you make the time to really listen to them, they appreciate it and you get your message across as well........

As for the term time-out, it's not something to be viewed as a barbaric, medieval form of torture but some quiet time for everyone to clam down and collect their thoughts....Even as adults we have timeouts.....I know when hubby and I are getting on each others nerves, well I have a choice of clobbering him over the head with my teflon non-stick frying pan or remove myself from the situation for some time to calm ourselves down.....So off I go out the garden or laundry till I can calm myself down and go back to finish him off with the frying pan.... :D

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glorybebe
Elusive as always, Sheri...no, you're not in the business of telling others what they should do, but you have no qualms about telling people what they shouldn't do.

You are great at blowing your own horn, but you can't back up what you believe because you don't have enough confidence. You rely on other peoples acceptance and when you don't have it, you wither.

When I was 16, I was complaining about my parents being too strict. I had chores, I had a curfew and I was expected to treat my parents with respect. A friend of mine said I was lucky. Her mom never gave her any structure, she could do anything she wanted and come home whenever she wanted. She told me that at least I knew I was loved.

Now, I am a mom. My daughter has gotten a swat-on her bum. I don't agree with hitting anywhere else, not hitting with anything but a hand. If you don't give your children structure AND love, then they will resent you and not respect you when they get older. If you love your child, you prepare them for the world. OR would you rather see them in jail? I love my daughter more then life itself, that is why she is taught consequences. I will NOT lose her to crime if I can do something to stop it. We talk a lot, but there are other times that talking just doesn't cut it. She trusts me and comes to me when she has a problem. We have a great relationship. I haven't had to spank her once in the past two years. Why? Because I explained to her why she got a swat and why she had to listen to me. These are your children. YOU are the parent. Read some books. Any expert will tell you that you have to give your child structure and rules. Otherwise, when your child is in front of the judge, don't blame anyone else for it.

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hyperactive
What I mean by 'correctly' is to produce decent, law-abiding and confident adults

where did this idea come from?

where would be the progress if not for the valiant that challenge unfair laws, for example?

decency is relative, for example.

toodles.

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Sherapy
I feel better now so I'm going to contribute my 2 cents worth..... :P

I feel most parents try and do the best they can for their children.....It's the hardest job anybody will ever do in their life when done correctly......What I mean by 'correctly' is to produce decent, law-abiding and confident adults......

I have my ways of raising my kids, it's a mixture of time-outs, threats, bribery, very rare smacking, rewarding system and taking away priviledges.....Amongst all that, a tremendous amount of love, common sense and a lot of humour......Now before anyone gets excited, when I say threats, an example is, 'Please clean your room like I asked two times before or you'll not go over to play with the kids next door'.......Before you know it, the room is cleaned.....

Most importantly though is the fact that I talk to my kids constantly.......Obviously it's easier as they get older, toddlers aren't very good conversationalists :P and I have found that if you make the time to really listen to them, they appreciate it and you get your message across as well........

As for the term time-out, it's not something to be viewed as a barbaric, medieval form of torture but some quiet time for everyone to clam down and collect their thoughts....Even as adults we have timeouts.....I know when hubby and I are getting on each others nerves, well I have a choice of clobbering him over the head with my teflon non-stick frying pan or remove myself from the situation for some time to calm ourselves down.....So off I go out the garden or laundry till I can calm myself down and go back to finish him off with the frying pan.... :D

mum ((HUGS)) this made me smile i have talked with you and i am certain your kids are loved and on many things we agree......are you still having braxton hicks??? when are you due???

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Michelle
michelle you are telling more about yourself then me....geez chick you can't get anymore transparent... :wub: An analyst you aren't love....

Don't call me love...if I'm not an analyst why did I know you were going to resort to the "you are telling more about yourself than me" when you have nothing further to fall back on.

:P MUM, you've got the right idea...when I get upset I write and my husband knows better than to confront me at that point. It's best if he lets me read it in the morning and see if it's still important or if it was just a tangent I was on because of a bad day.

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IamsSon
michelle you are telling more about yourself then me....geez chick you can't get anymore transparent... :wub: An analyst you aren't love....

Actually, Sheri, Michelle is just pointing out the same thing that several of us have tried to point out. You are not transparent, sometimes it's like you get lost in your own posts and leave us all wondering what the point was, and you seem to ignore questions. Maybe you feel you're being transparent, but many of us just don't perceive it as that. If you really are trying to be transparent then I hope you will stop and take the feedback and see if you can figure out why you aren't coming across as transparent.

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Sherapy
Don't call me love...if I'm not an analyst why did I know you were going to resort to the "you are telling more about yourself than me" when you have nothing further to fall back on.

:P MUM, you've got the right idea...when I get upset I write and my husband knows better than to confront me at that point. It's best if he lets me read it in the morning and see if it's still important or if it was just a tangent I was on because of a bad day.

for both of us ignore it is LOL....ha ha ha ha ha

Edited by Supra Sheri

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Sherapy
Actually, Sheri, Michelle is just pointing out the same thing that several of us have tried to point out. You are not transparent, sometimes it's like you get lost in your own posts and leave us all wondering what the point was, and you seem to ignore questions. Maybe you feel you're being transparent, but many of us just don't perceive it as that. If you really are trying to be transparent then I hope you will stop and take the feedback and see if you can figure out why you aren't coming across as transparent.

Son i was saying michelle is transparent not me... iam just putitng a pov I'm not looking to start a parenting class lol, I have views that genrate alot of heat what can i say... ....i'm a kook thats that get over it it takes those with ecclectic leanings themsleves to get me i am okay with that...now lets get this convresatation going..i'm rather enjoying the emphatic son......

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