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Rioting and chaos following French elections


Thozzman

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Remind me again, how does this pertain to elements of the French left-wing rioting after their presidential elections ? :D

Meow Purr.

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Our Military readiness is hampered.
"Hampered" or "Engaged"? The only real limits the U.S. military has run up against lately is the refusal of the Dems in Congress to pass a spending bill that will allow the troops to acquire what they need to win. (See Democratic stratagy used in Viet Nam)

We have the largest deficit in History
In numbers of dollars yes, not when compared to the GNP. If you earn a dollar a day and it costs you a dollar a day to live, you break even. If you earn a thousand dollars a day and it costs you a thousand dollars a day to live, you still break even, you just have more zeros to carry down. Can't say that it's because of the Terror War, the left won't draw up a realistic spending bill.

40 Million Americans dont have healthcare.
That figure is actually down from the beginning of the last century.

Politician after Politician is being sent to jail or investigated.
Politicians have been going to jail since the beginning of the nation. That they are put away or investigated is more a sign that things are working than that they are falling apart. It's when they stop looking at their own behavior that one should become worried.

Bin Laden is still free
Yep, but his minions are under seige and can't come out from under their rocks without getting shot at. Where does Bin Ladins kill ratio equal or exceed the U.S. kill ratio? Quite a change from the age of the Cole attack, the U.S. embassy attack, the first WTC attack.....

We are being overrun by illegal immigration
Marijauna was origninally made illegal during the Great Depression to give the states another way to deport Mexicans so that there would be more work available for U.S. citizens. There is no doubt that we are deffinately being over run and that it is a major problem but, to suddenly start screaming about it now is a little late. It's been going on for a long time now.

We have a higher rate of people in Prison than any other nation in the World.
We also have a better system for catching crooks. Bare in mind, China would have many times more than us but, their inmates just keep dying on them.

Our Students are comparing poorly to the rest of the civilized World.
Well, I can't reall y argue here except to say, you can lead a horse to water but, you can't make him drink. The education quality level has been deminishing in the U.S. since desegregation. I'm not saying that one is the cause of the other but, merely pointing out that they coincided. Grade averages have been steadily dropping, for all segments of the public school system, every since.

We have lost Habeas Corpus
No, the sheriffs jails still have to produce you when requested by the courts. In the case where it could be a threat to national security, they still have to prove they have you.

We have huge areas of Ghetto that are turning into a third world.
As opposed to vast sections of entire continants like Africa or large parts of Asia that are still part of the third world. Again, this is probably relate to that education thing.

You need to come back from Bush Patriotic Orgy land and get back down to Earth.
No thanks, I like it here in the United States of America.

As to "Why didn't the French fight this hard during WWII?" , Third Rule OF French Warfare-The French can only win when they are fighting themselves. Since it is essentially the French fighting against the French, they think that they actually stand a chance of winning this time.

Edited by Lord Umbarger
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Remind me again, how does this pertain to elements of the French left-wing rioting after their presidential elections ? :D

Meow Purr.

:D

Meow Purr

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I like it here in the United States of America.

Thanks, Lord... It gets tiresome when some seem to be so intent on making us look as bad as possible.

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I have to ask the same question as Bob...what about the budget deficit? How does that equal to strong economy?

As for the riots in France...well, France has always had a culture of rioting against the government;

And Libertyworld...I must say, it was fun to read you little conservative rant about "adult realities"

1) It doesn't "equal a strong economy". We have a strong economy. Period. Reams of complicating words cannot change that simple fact.

2) It is not french culture that is rioting.

3) Thanks. I enjoyed writing it.

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Thanks, Lord... It gets tiresome when some seem to be so intent on making us look as bad as possible.

Oh, those who think we look bad only say so until they have all control of the government, and then the whole world loves us.

See, it is all propaganda.

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1) It doesn't "equal a strong economy". We have a strong economy. Period. Reams of complicating words cannot change that simple fact.

2) It is not french culture that is rioting.

3) Thanks. I enjoyed writing it.

1) Well the IT biz was doing pretty strong in 1999, wouldn't you say? See my point? Endless debt doesn't lead you anywhere. Granted though, living standard in the US is very high on average at the moment...though you guys could use less poor people. I know I could.

2) I like how you intentionally misinterpreted the sentence. Like Umbarger sort of pointed out, the French do have a habit of fighting amongs themselves...they probably would have rioted if Royal had won. I really don't see how the rioting ties to the left...after all, you guys are always ranting how left-wingers are always on some feel good tree hugging tip. The difference between right and left is really simple, honestly; both want what's best for the society, they just believe in different ways of achieving it. You gotta remember though that it's not just left and right; there's something in the middle too and that's where I think we should walk.

3) You're welcome.

PS. I'll stop derailing now :)

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1) Well the IT biz was doing pretty strong in 1999, wouldn't you say? See my point? Endless debt doesn't lead you anywhere. Granted though, living standard in the US is very high on average at the moment...though you guys could use less poor people. I know I could.

2) I like how you intentionally misinterpreted the sentence. Like Umbarger sort of pointed out, the French do have a habit of fighting amongs themselves...they probably would have rioted if Royal had won. I really don't see how the rioting ties to the left...after all, you guys are always ranting how left-wingers are always on some feel good tree hugging tip. The difference between right and left is really simple, honestly; both want what's best for the society, they just believe in different ways of achieving it. You gotta remember though that it's not just left and right; there's something in the middle too and that's where I think we should walk.

3) You're welcome.

PS. I'll stop derailing now :)

I) I don't like so much debt either and wish our (leaders) would show much more fiscal restraint, especially towards the various kinds of welfare, except for the truly needy. And there must be very little truly "extreme poverty" in the US, though there is some spiritual poverty to be sure. As far as I can tell, our economy doesn't just (look good on paper) because of a high deficit, which is really not so high relative to our climbing GNP or on the verge of collapse because of the debt, but I am not an economist... I just see alot of strength evident in alot of things and believe in our future, if we can manage to reduce the influence of big money in our political system especially. Tall order, I know but the "career politician" thing has to be curbed...

2) I did not mean to do that to the french culture point so I went back and read it again... I was trying to say that (these) rioters are (mostly) not french or real participants in french culture... from what I've seen. Though it may not be entirely their fault that they feel so (outside), many of the rioters are the types that are not showing a generally strong propensity to assimilate anywhere with anyone... Am I missing something? I want to learn.

3) I used to be more left. (shudder) It would need to show a far better record of success and maturity and fairness and humility and gratitude and common sense and actual respect for human rights and the environment and the less fortunate... etc. to deserve winning back much of my respect. Till then, I'll walk more to the right.

Edited by libertyworld
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1) Well the IT biz was doing pretty strong in 1999, wouldn't you say? See my point? Endless debt doesn't lead you anywhere. Granted though, living standard in the US is very high on average at the moment...though you guys could use less poor people. I know I could.

Nope, we alll know now the DOT COM boom was full of hallow companies. Most of them were making no profit and was just operating thru venture capitalist.

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Nope, we alll know now the DOT COM boom was full of hallow companies. Most of them were making no profit and was just operating thru venture capitalist.

My point exactly.

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I’ve witnessed a mini-riot in Trafalgar Square involving at least 500 muslims… and yet this didn’t even make the news.

Now, all of a sudden, the BBC reports riots involving at least 500 people took place when, conservative Nicolas Sarkozy was voted in.

Strange..

Hmmm I guess 500’s the magic number.

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My point exactly.

Then I want to clear your point, before 1999 the strong economy we all were enjoying was hallow, it was to burst regardless who was the sitting President. Venture Capitalist had enough of funding DOTCOM that was not making money.

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I) I don't like so much debt either and wish our (leaders) would show much more fiscal restraint, especially towards the various kinds of welfare, except for the truly needy. And there must be very little truly "extreme poverty" in the US, though there is some spiritual poverty to be sure. As far as I can tell, our economy doesn't just (look good on paper) because of a high deficit, which is really not so high relative to our climbing GNP or on the verge of collapse because of the debt, but I am not an economist... I just see alot of strength evident in alot of things and believe in our future, if we can manage to reduce the influence of big money in our political system especially. Tall order, I know but the "career politician" thing has to be curbed...

2) I did not mean to do that to the french culture point so I went back and read it again... I was trying to say that (these) rioters are (mostly) not french or real participants in french culture... from what I've seen. Though it may not be entirely their fault that they feel so (outside), many of the rioters are the types that are not showing a generally strong propensity to assimilate anywhere with anyone... Am I missing something? I want to learn.

3) I used to be more left. (shudder) It would need to show a far better record of success and maturity and fairness and humility and gratitude and common sense and actual respect for human rights and the environment and the less fortunate... etc. to deserve winning back much of my respect. Till then, I'll walk more to the right.

1) I agree with you on most of that. I like it how it is sometimes possible to achieve mutual understanding by sharing opinions and views on different things. Even though I might lean more left than you, our basic agenda seems to be similar. It seems that we just believe in different paths, which is where I'm coming to soon.

2) Well, I have to admit I'm no specialist in matters regarding France. However, I have studied French culture quite a bit, and can say that whenever there has been distress there, there have been revolts. Right now, many of the rioters are students who don't believe in Sarkozy's agenda and believes he only wants to benefit the rich and add to the oppression some other classes feel at the moment. Also, many of the conspirators for the French Revolution were people who would be now considered students; just something to point out the culture reference. The French are often considered very sensitive to changes that don't particularly appeal to them (at least by the rest of Europe ;) ) Sure, there are also immigrants who have problems in assimilating to the culture, and some probably lack the will to as well. There are also those who just want to riot for rioting's sake.

3) There is one point that I don't always bring out, which is that I understand Americans have a very different way of perceiving the government, and politics in general. You see, where I'm from, I'm actually leaning towards the right. In America, I'm leaning towards the left. But I'm usually not considered to be at the extreme end in either country; at least as far as I know. But Finland is a small country, and a very homogenous one. Also the least corrupt country in the world according to research (you can wiki corruption, I'm too lazy right now, off from work any minute). Which is why we have more trust in the government, and in our political parties as well. This is based on my own experiences and conversations with both Americans and Finns. Curiously enough, our left-wing parties suffered most in last elections due to their campaigning (they collaborated pretty openly with labour unions which is considered unfair here) and also due to their inefficiency in keeping their promises. However, our left-wing can't be called communists, and our right can't be called "neo-cons"...well, you pick the term :) The point in that is, in my view Americans tend to be pretty "black and white" so to speak, compared to my culture.

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I think we're going to see a lot more of this kind of thing....riots etc....as Europe moves more to the right, in frustration, as the realities of mass immigration and imposed multi-culturalism begin to really unfold.

Countries want a peaceful and fair society, but mis-management of the movement of huge numbers of people into Europe, and the social problems that come with that is now starting to bite.

People born and bred in Europe over many generations are fed up and if the political outlet for their frustration presents itself they will take it.

People coming into Europe now or recently are fed up when faced with povety, unemployment and social exclusion.

What a mess!

That's it in a nutshell and why I tend to lean towards conservative things in this country. People have fine plans but the execution of the plans fail miserably because of mismanagement.

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Then I want to clear your point, before 1999 the strong economy we all were enjoying was hallow, it was to burst regardless who was the sitting President. Venture Capitalist had enough of funding DOTCOM that was not making money.

I agree, it would have burst whether it was Reagan or FDR sitting in the office. My point was they were basically running on debt ;)

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