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The Puzzler

Egyptian evidence in Australia

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Hanslune
12 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Except that...

* people saw other people writing these

* it's documented that there's no hieroglyphs on the site in the 1950's

* I've seen the symbols and I can read hieroglyphs (Budge is 120 years out of date, actually.)  No Egyptian of ancient times wrote those.  The people who did those thought that hieroglyphs were sort of a 'cartoon' for words instead of an actual alphabet that was used to write over 10,000 different words (like our Roman alphabet.)  The dictionary of Egyptian hieroglyphs (words) is four large (and expensive) books: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Deutsches-Worterbuch-German-dictionary

* I've also seen photos of real ancient Egyptian graffiti.  Looks nothing like this.

Actually that brings up an aside. What percentage of the AE population knew how to write?

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Jarocal
5 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Actually that brings up an aside. What percentage of the AE population knew how to write?

96.3241875% were literate. incidentally that's the same percentage of architects and engineers in their culture who utilized the metric system for their designs to numerically encode esoteric meanings into the structures.

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Hanslune
29 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

96.3241875% were literate. incidentally that's the same percentage of architects and engineers in their culture who utilized the metric system for their designs to numerically encode esoteric meanings into the structures.

Yes not counting the metric folks of course!

...I would think not. I would suspect that only nobles, priests, some military and scribes/artist knew how to write but what percentage of the population that would include I do not know.

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Kenemet
7 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Actually that brings up an aside. What percentage of the AE population knew how to write?

A small number... less than 10 percent.

 

Now - that varies over time.  In the Old Kingdom (when this site's hieroglyphs purportedly were written) it would have been around 2-4%.  As the middle class emerged during the First Intermediate Period and later, the scribal trade became a way out of the farming life.   In Ptolemaic times, the list of literate/partly literate professions would have included merchants (among others)

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back to earth
16 hours ago, Silver_Lyre said:

...i got to say that it is strange to assume that no others before the Dutch and the English discovered Australia. Australia sits south of South East Asia, India, China and the Middle East.

Of course that is strange ... the reason is ;    it is dead wrong  !  and why assume that  ... when we know differently ? 

Also I question your outdated and Empire-based usage of the term 'discover' .  

16 hours ago, Silver_Lyre said:

So its not like we're at the **** end of the world.

Really ?   Where does one go after Australia when heading to the south east fro S E Asia  ?  

16 hours ago, Silver_Lyre said:

Surely some of those civilisations came across Australia. Maybe Arab or Chinese traders found their way either by accident of by design. Any signs of them to date have not been found. But to suggest that the ancient Egyptians did and landed on the East Coast of Australia no less, is bullchit. They were not traders of any great renown and poor sailors. 

Any prior contact would have been on the North and Western coasts of Australia. And not by people from the Middle sea.  

 

Indeed !  Especially the north coast, we have some  evidence of that . 

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crystal sage

You have to at least credit that the archeologists who write about this can tell a new bit of graffiti from ancient work.. http://wakeup-world.com/2014/10/14/hieroglyphics-experts-declare-ancient-egyptian-carvings-in-australia-authentic/   Not all of the fellow travelers would have been as gifted in carving the commemoration of the visit and telling the story of the death... they did the best that they could do in traumatic times.. they probably drew straws as to who would engrave the message.. ;) 

 

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crystal sage

Australia has lots of other ancient rock engravings that look similar.. but just read here that back in the 1960's some bright spark thought that they would help out a bit via restoration !!!!  :(  http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/bondi_rock_carvings 

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The largest group shows an eight-metre figure of a shark that appears to be attacking a male figure that could be an iguana or lizard. This could be the first record of a shark attack at Bondi. It was earlier thought to be a whale, as there are two other rock engravings of whales at Bondi, but the dorsal and pectoral fins identify it as a shark.

A separate panel shows two fish and a boomerang. The southernmost portion of the group has been cut deeper and is probably of an older date, possibly up to 2,000 years old. Ancestral footprints (mundoes) that once led to the site have now faded. It is assumed that the carvings were linked to a ceremonial ground overlooking the ocean.

A low chain fence now encloses the site. The carvings were retouched and fenced in 1951. A plaque commemorates a misguided attempt in 1964 by Waverley Council to preserve the engravings by re-grooving them. They are listed on the State Heritage Inventory but are poorly drained, blistering, and in danger of being damaged. They deserve serious attention as evidence of the Aboriginal occupation of Bondi long before the blonde-haired surfers arrived.

http://teachingtheenglish.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/aboriginal-rock-carvings-bondi.html    They look similar to the Egyptian glyphs and are said to be 10,000 to 20,000 years old !!!!  Aboriginal+Rock+carvings+early+morning+0   http://austhrutime.com/aboriginal_art.htm

 

http://press.anu.edu.au/node/289/download

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The Pilbara is a rock pile facing the sea that dovetails with the desert, the constituent rocks being iron-rich granite that has been dated to more then 3 Ma. The rocks have rusted brown over time as a result of their age, and have also weathered round and been fractured to square shapes that gives then an artificial-looking appearance, forming extensive piles of rock that were used by humans to form, according to the author1 the greatest art gallery in the world by abrading, bashing and hammering (pecking). There are engravings all over the Pilbara, such as at Woodstock station on the Yule River, where there are more than 3,000 engravings on 200 boulders, and on the Burrup Peninsula there are more than 10,000 engravings. At some other places there are individual locations with more than 1,000 engravings as well as many other art works throughout the greater region, with possibly a total 1 million engravings, more art here than at any other place on Earth

 

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crystal sage

The thing is ... there were more ancient carvings of what looked like Egyptian boats and other Egyptian acknowledgements found in other places around Australia... there are thousands of places of ancient aboriginal art throughout Australia , many sadly aren't protected..  As I mentioned to another... it is logical that others had come to Australia thousands of years ago.. The Egyptians were known for exploring lands for rare and mysterious objects. If we have recorded history and of course archeological and biological  DNA evidence that people from all over the world migrated in waves to Australia over 60,000 years.. that each of the remaining groups of Aboriginals have their own language.. shared their history.. but came from different lands all over the world.. The knowledge that Australia is a place of rare coloured Diamonds.. rare black pearls.. opals.. Gold and many other precious metals , rare plants.. unusual wildlife that would have pleased many a great  prince, Queen or King or  any Rich  influential man.. who wanted to woo a wife.. .. Of course the Asian population would have discovered Australia and the surrounding lands for rare goods.. as would have the Northern Europeans.. Vikings....   If Australia was known as the "Go To Land " that attracted people from all over the world for 10's of thousands of years... why not the Egyptians ???  I wouldn't make sense for them not to have been there !!!

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Captain Risky
2 hours ago, back to earth said:

Of course that is strange ... the reason is ;    it is dead wrong  !  and why assume that  ... when we know differently ? 

Also I question your outdated and Empire-based usage of the term 'discover' .  

Really ?   Where does one go after Australia when heading to the south east fro S E Asia  ?  

 

Indeed !  Especially the north coast, we have some  evidence of that . 

What evidence are you talking about? :)

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back to earth
18 minutes ago, Silver_Lyre said:

What evidence are you talking about? :)

The evidence that is easily found by typing ;  ' pre European visitors to Australia '  into Google could be a start.

Or  just go to Wiki .    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Australia#Contact_outside_Australia

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back to earth
33 minutes ago, crystal sage said:

Australia has lots of other ancient rock engravings that look similar.. but just read here that back in the 1960's some bright spark thought that they would help out a bit via restoration !!!!  :(  http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/bondi_rock_carvings 

http://teachingtheenglish.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/aboriginal-rock-carvings-bondi.html    They look similar to the Egyptian glyphs and are said to be 10,000 to 20,000 years old !!!!  Aboriginal+Rock+carvings+early+morning+0   http://austhrutime.com/aboriginal_art.htm

 

http://press.anu.edu.au/node/289/download

 

Still nothing about  the claim made about Ray Johnson  ?   

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Captain Risky
12 minutes ago, back to earth said:

The evidence that is easily found by typing ;  ' pre European visitors to Australia '  into Google could be a start.

Or  just go to Wiki .    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Australia#Contact_outside_Australia

Okay thanks. I had just a theory til you confirmed it. Im sure there should be more. I think an expedition is in order. 

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crystal sage
19 minutes ago, Silver_Lyre said:

What evidence are you talking about? :)

OMG... do I have to do all the digging up of info for that too ?     Sadly , like many other places in the world.. the places with the most ancient artificats have been destroyed by either mining.. torn up for building cities.. new developments... I know of  and have hear of many builders.. developers that hide any sign of ancient archeological significance as it means holding back further works for months.. maybe years.. ( all is dependent on rather paltry funds that governments and private investors offer for these digs.. which is why so many digs where we at first hear of amazing finds.. get no further.. as their limited funds dry up.. or organizations manage to sneak in and build over them before authorities get to stop them.. or wars blast the hell out of them as is happening through out most of this world  ( middle east..Syria..  ( remember the homeland of all the biblical characters as well as the thousands of ancient Mari tablets etc.. that predated much of the bible... !!!!!   and in the past..  Vietnam.. Cambodia..  Egypt..   now as in the past..    More rants :(    sorry..

http://archive.archaeology.org/9703/etc/specialreport.html   these are old.. I know but many were protesting having these areas cleared for resorts.. mining.. etc.. the big corporations won of course..

http://www.australiaforeveryone.com.au/discovery/greeks_romans.htm

 

http://www.treasureenterprises.com/Miscellaneous/Archaeology_in_australia.htm

 

Quote

ANCIENT MARINERS

Many highly publicised theories abound as to which ancients visited this land aeons ago. Egyptians, Arabians, Sumerians, Romans, Greeks, Libyans, Phoenicians, Asian Indians, Chinese, American Indians, Mayans, Vikings and Polynesians have all been suggested.

It appears ancient mariners from China had a long and perhaps closer relationship with the great south land than previously thought. For instance, ancient Chinese writings record two Australian solar eclipses in 592 BC and 553 BC. The Egyptians for instance, recorded their experiences of an Australian eclipse in 232 BC which is recorded within unique cave wall carvings and writings discovered in Irian Jaya which was formally north-west New Guinea.

It also appears almost certain when one considers other Aboriginal rock paintings of Arab Dhows (sailing craft) and clothed figures located at various locations in north-western Australia, Northern Territory, Torres Strait and Central Queensland islands.

The following early records should be considered:

  1. It is claimed that 12th Century Viking records identified Australia as 'Solar Partistra – the sunburnt land'.
  2. Egyptians (seemingly supported by some very early Aboriginal legends) tell of a time when the sun rose in the west and set in the east – the reverse of today. Does this indicate that the Earth's axis changed so that they experienced the reversal of the North and South Poles?
  3. Archaeologists have indicated by radiocarbon dating that ancient human occupation of the continent goes back to at least 22,000 years BC. Anthropologists are said to place ancient human occupations at 30,000 to 40,000 years BC. More modern techniques can now place such occupations to at least 160,000 years BC.
  4. Claims were made that old Egyptian writings state that their civilization learnt to build the pyramids from an ancient people who once came from a great south land in the east.

 

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cormac mac airt
1 hour ago, crystal sage said:

You have to at least credit that the archeologists who write about this can tell a new bit of graffiti from ancient work.. http://wakeup-world.com/2014/10/14/hieroglyphics-experts-declare-ancient-egyptian-carvings-in-australia-authentic/   Not all of the fellow travelers would have been as gifted in carving the commemoration of the visit and telling the story of the death... they did the best that they could do in traumatic times.. they probably drew straws as to who would engrave the message.. ;) 

 

You can, then, point out specifically who these presumably competent "archaeologists" are and what their specific and verified qualifications are concerning any discussion of the usage or meaning of claimed AE hieroglyphics depicted, correct? Will await your evidence showing such is true.

cormac

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crystal sage

https://oi.uchicago.edu/research/projects/epigraphic-survey

 

Quote

The Epigraphic Survey

CH-color-logo-2015.jpgThe Epigraphic Survey, based at Chicago House in Luxor, Egypt, is directed by W. Raymond Johnson, Research Associate and Associate Professor at the Oriental Institute.

https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/ar/81-90/82-83/82-83_Epigraphic.pdf

 

http://www.ubarchaeologist.com/EGYPT-ARCHAEOLOGY.html

 

Quote

Archaeology is an impor tant part of research and more than a dozen archaeological teams ... I am standing next to Dr Ray Johnson, Director of the Chicago House.

 

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crystal sage

Just try gathering all the facts you can.. and then use logic... Australia and all it's riches would have been The Place to go .. Who knows maybe the ancient Egyptians originally emigrated from Australia.. The ancient legend from the oral legends of Australian Aboriginal who have been migrating in waves for over 60,000 years speak of other lighter skinned people already living in  this land .. whatever Australia was known as then.. who lived in giant stone buildings.. that they eventually died out .. There are more clues that other ancient traders travelled in lands surrounding Australia.. so why ... there were ancient references as some sacred land that coincidently seems to be where Australia is situated..  Now if whole populations from various lands.. were constantly migrating to Australia  for 10's of thousands of years... on what was assumed rather sad seaworthy rafts and mainly relying on land crossings.. to hop skip and jump and random raft work to get to Australia... What drew them all there.. Why??? How did they know so to come from all the way from Polynesia.. India.. Africa?  to Australia... we also had a pygmie race that is found all over the world.. finally died out in Australia in the last 50  years..https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/history-wars/2002/06/the-extinction-of-the-australian-pygmies/  just like other parts of the world are sadly  trying to do the same... (  San people of the Kalahari deserts) http://kalahari-meerkats.com/fileadmin/files/guides/Bushmen_light.pdf   http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/in-depth/the-short-mob-goes-back-a-long-way/story-e6frgd9f-1225987410521 

 

I read somewhere once that the ancients from various lands used to capture  the pygmy races for digging their underground tunnels.. their http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread589537/pg1

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cormac mac airt
Quote

 

The National Parks and Wildlife Service maintains the engravings are not authentic, as does Associate Professor Boyo Ockinga from Macquarie University's Ancient History Department, who is currently on an archaeological dig in Luxor, Egypt.

Professor Ockinga says as much as he would like the glyphs to be genuine, there is no doubt they are fakes.

"I'd be the first person who'd welcome some sort of link that because it would make my subject relevant to Australian history," he said.

"It'd be wonderful...but I'm afraid it's just not possible."

A group of amateur researchers has sparked new interest in the site, having found a new, smaller set of hieroglyphs in the area.

Group leader, Steven Strong says they are also also investigating a labyrinth of tunnels cut into the rock beneath the original set of engravings.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-14/glyphs-reax/4428134

So the National Parks and Wildlife Service says the inscriptions are not authentic 

So "amateur researchers" in this case read "noone with any actual qualifications in reading, writing or translating AE hieroglyphs" have sparked new interest with their BS translations and story. Looks like Round # ??? is coming through for another try at relevancy to the AE language. :rolleyes:

As group leader of said amateur researchers there has been nothing shown to suggest Strong himself can do anything mentioned in the previoius sentence regarding AE language with any competence. Why is this not surprising?

cormac

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Hanslune
1 hour ago, crystal sage said:

The thing is ... there were more ancient carvings of what looked like Egyptian boats and other Egyptian acknowledgements found in other places around Australia... there are thousands of places of ancient aboriginal art throughout Australia , many sadly aren't protected..  As I mentioned to another... it is logical that others had come to Australia thousands of years ago.. The Egyptians were known for exploring lands for rare and mysterious objects. If we have recorded history and of course archeological and biological  DNA evidence that people from all over the world migrated in waves to Australia over 60,000 years.. that each of the remaining groups of Aboriginals have their own language.. shared their history.. but came from different lands all over the world.. The knowledge that Australia is a place of rare coloured Diamonds.. rare black pearls.. opals.. Gold and many other precious metals , rare plants.. unusual wildlife that would have pleased many a great  prince, Queen or King or  any Rich  influential man.. who wanted to woo a wife.. .. Of course the Asian population would have discovered Australia and the surrounding lands for rare goods.. as would have the Northern Europeans.. Vikings....   If Australia was known as the "Go To Land " that attracted people from all over the world for 10's of thousands of years... why not the Egyptians ???  I wouldn't make sense for them not to have been there !!!

Yes others did come to Australia and no the Egyptians were not known for exploring by long voyages they did trade with other who were nearby.They didn't set up colonies/garrisons except in their own near vicinity. There is also no indication of the Egyptians at any point on the way to Australia and no Australian goods in AE or vice versa.

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crystal sage

They would  then have sent others out and of course there would have been some Egyptian scholar or Naturist.. geologist..  medical scientist  wanting to go out and seek some rare plants.. for creating more potent potions ... along with some security.. an entourage of sorts..  and who is to say that some rich Egyptian kid  or two would have persuaded their parents to allow them to go or would have bribed the ship captain to take them along.. or simply hid on board until it was too late to turn back.. we know young folk have done this .. will do this and still do this.. as do many others with the thirst for the unknown..

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Habitat

Gene mapping of aboriginals might tell what races visited in the past. There was a theory that blond-headedness in some WA aboriginals had its origins in Dutch castaways from several hundred years ago.

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crystal sage
Quote
Quote

Another version of the creation of the paintings is that little birds named ‘Kujon’ created them at the Wandjina's request, with blood from their own wounded beaks. No one has ever seen the birds painting, but it is believed to be true. The birds also painted the human figures, named Bradshaw Paintings, on the rocks but these have no connection with the Wandjina paintings, although they are often found in the same rock shelters.

http://rexgilroy.com/uru_chapter11.html 

Quote

 

They are images of the ‘Birdmen’ of Uru, the first humans to begin the conquest of the skies. Some Blue Mountains rock art shows there were ‘birdwomen’ too. These rock engravings show that over 15,000 years ago, employing the simplest materials, the Blue Mountains Uru had taken to the air in the earliest hang gliders built on earth. In imitation of the flight of I-na, the Eagle of the Sun, at the height of ceremonies in his honour, held at cliff, hill and mountaintop temples and shrines dedicated to him, men boldly leapt into the air, to glide over valleys and open plains.

One ancient ‘runway’ at Katoomba discovered by the author, contains engraved human male and female figures clothed in ceremonial garments arranged in dancing poses, together with a ‘birdman’ as if about to take flight. Hopefully his ‘wings’ held him aloft successfully, for he was about to leap from a 166m high cliff! A similar launching site exists upon Mt Scoria, a pyramid-shaped volcanic plug situated inland from Queensland’s mid-north coast. Rising 150m high, the base of this ryolite rubble formation measures 500m in length on each side.

The flattened summit, measures 20m in length east to west, and 11m wide on its northern and southern sides, and a number of inscribed stones have been found around the structure’s sides, one of which bears the engraved image of a birdman and the Uruan inscription

 

 

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Habitat

Rex Gilroy seems to have all bases covered in the wacky theory caper.

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Hanslune
33 minutes ago, crystal sage said:

They would  then have sent others out and of course there would have been some Egyptian scholar or Naturist.. geologist..  medical scientist  wanting to go out and seek some rare plants.. for creating more potent potions ... along with some security.. an entourage of sorts..  and who is to say that some rich Egyptian kid  or two would have persuaded their parents to allow them to go or would have bribed the ship captain to take them along.. or simply hid on board until it was too late to turn back.. we know young folk have done this .. will do this and still do this.. as do many others with the thirst for the unknown..

Nice story but I would suggest you look at the alleged sent by Necho II to circumnavigate Africa. The Egyptian pharaoh sent Phoenicians. You can also look at Hatshepsut's expedition to punt and comment by Egyptians who traveled to Lebanon. 

Here is a question for you based on your knowledge of AE shipbuilding: how long would it have taken for an AE ship to have journey to and from that part of Australia?

 

 

 

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Hanslune
5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Rex Gilroy seems to have all bases covered in the wacky theory caper.

Yes he got a lead star for his efforts in that regards.

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