An honor killing in Iraq

[triplehelix2000]

once again to paraphrase bee "im self-righteous, im superior". Its old, bee, and proven to be a moral dead-end. read Ripleys last post, violence in America is constantly on the increase. your philiosopy, Which has been popular since the 60's, has failed.

[+joc]

Once again, for all those who just cannot come to terms with this. What other major culture stones women today?

I have personally stoned a few women. Okay...well...I was responsible for their getting stoned....

[Clocker]

once again to paraphrase bee "im self-righteous, im superior". Its old, bee, and proven to be a moral dead-end. read Ripleys last post, violence in America is constantly on the increase. your philiosopy, Which has been popular since the 60's, has failed.

Well, I'd be a bit more hesitant to use the word "prove". I don't think I have to provide a link to a dictionary where it explains what proof means. And no philosophy has failed as you claim. Under the same logic I could argue that Christianity has failed due to the many massacres, murders, violence and torture committed by different churches. Under that very same logic I could argue that Islam has failed due to honor killings like this, sectarian violence, suicide bombings etc. So of the options I have, I'll stick to personal, even spiritual growth and finding my own way. By this philosophy I have already managed to help myself and others, just as well as my brother who is a rather devout Christian.

Edit: Oh, and thanks bee, for the support

Edited May 31, 2007 by Clocker

[Bob26003]

I have personally stoned a few women. Okay...well...I was responsible for their getting stoned....

You know you can loose your Repub carrying card for that.

[Lt_Ripley]

I would like to point out that most of the trends ripley is pointing out started growing exponential during the 1960's. The decade when we all, in the U.S, collectively agreed that we know better than God.

actually it's that before the 60's women here were thought of as 'property' of thier husbands. the abuse rarely was reported and when it was cops did nothing.

heck in the 70's when my mothers husband beat her or us , the cops would come and basically say there was nothing they could do. no report no anything. And she owned the house !!!!! yet they couldn't remove him,

if all the women that had been beat or killed before recording started you would find the numbers just as high.

[Lt_Ripley]

Bee I think we had this discussion before. How would I even know what is "bad"? God defines what is good and bad.

according to 'God' -

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

[Lt_Ripley]

Christian Terrorist On Trial for Anthrax Hoaxes

While the administration debates treating Muslim terrorists as "enemy combatants" and denying the basic rights afforded to those normally accused of crimes, the trial of a Christian terrorist continues in Pennsylvania. So far, there have been no suggestions to send him to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, or to put him in a military brig. I wonder why?

CNN reports on the case of Clayton Lee Waagner, accused of sending hundreds of letters to women's clinics claiming to contain anthrax:

Waagner, 47, previously had claimed responsibility for the letters, but also suggested it was possible he lied about his involvement to take the pressure off other anti-abortion activists. Waagner already is serving a 30-year jail term for weapons violations, and other charges are pending in several states. He was on the FBI's most wanted list when he was arrested in Ohio in December after 10 months on the run following his escape from an Illinois jail. Interestingly, not all of the places that received Waagner's letters actually provided abortions; at least one is opposed to abortions! Waagner seems to profess to be a member of the "Army of God" extremist group, which would mean that he is an extremist and a terrorist in the name of a religious ideology. If he were a Muslim who sent such letters to Jewish groups in America, I guarantee you that the case would be getting more attention and would be treated differently.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/23/anthrax.hoax.ap/index.html

Anti-abortion activist on trial for anthrax hoax

Sunday, November 23, 2003 Posted: 10:30 AM EST (1530 GMT)

PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A self-described anti-abortion "terrorist" accused of sending hundreds of anthrax hoax letters to women's clinics discovered during his trial that one of the letters went to a group that counsels women against abortion.

Clayton Lee Waagner, who is acting as his own attorney, learned Friday that the Pregnancy Resource Clinic of North Penn does not provide abortions.

Denise Orlowski, who opened a powder-filled letter sent to the clinic under the name "Army of God" on October 16, 2001, testified that she had heard of the Army of God from an anti-abortion news service.

"So you're familiar with my name as a radical who fights to stop abortion?" Waagner asked Orlowski.

Orlowski seemed angry as she replied, "I believe we both can agree that abortion is murder, but I don't agree with the methods the Army of God uses."

Other witnesses testified that an ophthalmologist and a psychologist also received the bogus threat letters, apparently because their names were mistakenly listed in the Yellow Pages under "abortion providers."

Waagner, 47, previously had claimed responsibility for the letters, but also suggested it was possible he lied about his involvement to take the pressure off other anti-abortion activists.

Waagner already is serving a 30-year jail term for weapons violations, and other charges are pending in several states. He was on the FBI's most wanted list when he was arrested in Ohio in December after 10 months on the run following his escape from an Illinois jail.

Prosecutors said that during his flight, Waagner mailed at least 550 threatening letters -- all claiming that the powder was anthrax. Some contained flour and others contained an insecticide harmless to humans that can create a false-positive test result for anthrax.

FBI agents said the stolen Mercedes-Benz that Waagner was driving at the time of his arrest was stocked with envelopes and threatening form letters purportedly from the "Army of God," along with a bag of the type of insecticide found in some letters.

The trial continues Monday in U.S. District Court in Philadelphia

[ships-cat]

Hmmm... dunno Lt. Ripley.. surely brigs/guantanamo are for illegal enemy combatants ? After all, the terrorists arrested for planning the attack on Fort Dix didn't get any special attention - they just went through the standard US detention channels.. (didn't they ??)

Meow Purr ?

[triplehelix2000]

I guess your trying to argue with me ripley? You have to do more than provide an anecdote for the 1960's thing. Opinions dont prove points. I did the reasearch, and the rate of violent crime is constantly increasing, Rape also. Lets not mention the mass feticide, or single mothers. You can find graphs all over the internet that agree with me. also I did say that god defines good and evil, so the second post does agree with me. I dont know whether or not that was supposed to contradict me, with the quote in issah. Apparently not only does God define what evil is to begin with, he also creates it. He is the source of everything. A regular person trying to redefine "evil" or good and bad is quite futile.

the rate of rape per year

http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php

notice the flat line before the 1960's then boom. Thank you hippies! apparently society is redefining rape as "good".

Edited May 31, 2007 by triplehelix2000

[Lt_Ripley]

Hmmm... dunno Lt. Ripley.. surely brigs/guantanamo are for illegal enemy combatants ? After all, the terrorists arrested for planning the attack on Fort Dix didn't get any special attention - they just went through the standard US detention channels.. (didn't they ??)

Meow Purr ?

actually I didn't write that first bit - it came with the story.

having said that however people who have not been charged with anything have been held in Guantanamo for years now . mailing over 500 letters claiming to be anthrax is a terrorist act.

planning and doing are two different things. the police will tell you that until someone actually does commit a crime there isn't much they can do.

I can plan to rob a bank , but until I've actually robbed one I haven't committed a crime.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Lt_Ripley

[Lt_Ripley]

I guess your trying to argue with me ripley? You have to do more than provide an anecdote for the 1960's thing. Opinions dont prove points. I did the reasearch, and the rate of violent crime is constantly increasing, Rape also. Lets not mention the mass feticide, or single mothers. You can find graphs all over the internet that agree with me. also I did say that god defines good and evil, so the second post does agree with me. I dont know whether or not that was supposed to contradict me, with the quote in issah. Apparently not only does God define what evil is to begin with, he also creates it. He is the source of everything. A regular person trying to redefine "evil" or good and bad is quite futile.

the rate of rape per year

http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php

notice the flat line before the 1960's then boom. Thank you hippies! apparently society is redefining rape as "good".

the fact is , from personal experience as well , things like spousal abuse , rape ect ....... went under reported before ( and after) the womens movement.

even now a majority don't come forward. so that is why your chart doesn't go before 1960 and why it looks like it has exploded. use your brain. think logically.

http://www.mtsu.edu/~kmiddlet/history/women/wh-violence.html

http://ccids.umaine.edu/resources/dvp/files/three.htm

1945 - A San Jose Superior Court Judge, Eugene Premo, dismisses murder charges against a husband accused of murdering his wife. The judge rules that the California wife-abuse law discriminates on the basis of sex by only making mention of husbands, and is unconstitutional. 4

1950's &1960's -Women being killed by abusive husbands is rarely recognized for what it is. Headlines often read "Husband Goes Berserk and Shoots Estranged Wife." 4

1964 - An article in the Archives of General Psychiatry written by Snell, Rosenwald, and Robey suggests that battered wives are like the wives of alcoholics, and that these wives have a masochistic need that their husbands' aggression fulfills. 5

1966 -Beating, as cruel and inhumane treatment, becomes grounds for divorce in New York, but the plaintiff must establish that a "sufficient" number of beatings have taken place. 4 there was no real legal recourse !

http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/herst....html#id2568054

The problem of family violence has always existed. Women have been battered by their partners in almost every society in the world. The beginning of services for battered women and children dates back to 1885 when the Chicago Protective Agency for Women, established to help women who were victims of physical abuse, provided legal aid, court advocacy, and personal assistance to the women. An abused woman could receive up to four weeks of shelter at the refuge operated by the Women's Club of Chicago. The agency helped women to secure legal separations, divorces, and equitable property distributions. Between 1915 and 1920, 25 cities followed Chicago's lead in developing protective agencies for women; by the 1940's few shelters remained, due, in part, to marital separations caused by World War II (Roberts, 1996). The history of childhood is replete with suffering, well documented from biblical times to the present. The landmark Wilson case of 1874 pricked the American social conscience and opened America's eyes to the plight of many children: Eight-year-old Mary Ellen Wilson lived with her adoptive parents in New York City. She was held there in chains, starved and beaten. The police responded but could do nothing because it was a "family matter," and parents held the "rights" (Ziegler & Hall, 1989).

http://www.nursingworld.org/ojin/topic17/tpc17ntr.htm

like I said nothing could be done and most didn't report it before the 60's when they started feeling empowered enough to do so. Still even today it is under reported.

the problem is evil or lack of religion. It's ignorance and men who think women are less that and who still stupidly think a womans place is in the home.

[triplehelix2000]

"use your brain. think logically." thats good. Yea deny the facts! thats logical!

What is your point anyways. You give evidence of moral decay in america. I agee, then you tell me how moral America is. Be consistent man! You just want to argue for the sake of argueming? I have better things to do!

Edited May 31, 2007 by triplehelix2000

[Lt_Ripley]

"use your brain. think logically." thats good. Yea deny the facts! thats logical!

[

I'm not arguing I'm stating fact. you pull out a graph that only dates back to the 60's is because that's when they started keeping records. if you think the numbers weren't high before that your a fool

I gave you facts --- and reread above - what part of that don't you understand ? you are the one denying facts.

you didn't even bother to read it or the links which prove your a fool

I posted at 2:20 and you posted back at 2:23

chicken.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Lt_Ripley

[Irish]

A reminder her before this thread gets closed

3f. Abusive behavior: Do not be rude, insulting, offensive or abusive towards other members.

[Essene]

Get serious dude. "jump at the chance to hang a black person". The thread started regarding what is going on in the middle east and then blaming the right wing Christians I think is kind of a stretch. I smell another left wingnut (wing nut is a special nut). I my self am a centralist who sits back scratching my head as I look on at all the far right nuts and the far left wingnuts who really dont have a clue. Yeah, there maybe a few people who would hang a person just because they are different color or kill them in another way but its not just whites its also blacks and others that think this way and should be prosecuted and put in jail for ever or executed if they commit the crime. Also, can you say OJ? In the good ol USA everyone is equal except by how much money they have to pay for an attorney to get them out of a crime they did do. As for the original post regarding the middle east its not only the women who are killed its the men also. If a man has sex with a woman and they are not married in some areas they will cut the mans penis off <ouch> and if they steal they cut off the hand they eat with so they have to eat with the hand that they wipe their butt with and they dont have toilet paper in most places there. I think part of the problem in the middle east and elsewhere is the issue of education and the religious fanantics want to only educate the people according to their interpretation of religious text and can be pretty whacked out, kinda like views of Charles Manson in his interpretaion of the religion. It may well be that we the so called educated people may find some things in other places of the planet horrendous and rightfully so but its their country and if it works for them thats great but if they try to force their views on us then its an issue, a major one and vice versa I would assume with them on us forcing our way's on them. If the people dont like whats going on then the people have to either change it or leave to a place that they feel is better for them.<gets off soap box and kicks it aside>

There are plenty of people in the US who would still jump at the chance to hang a Black person. (Probably most of them call themselves Christian Right )

Awesome post Lt. Ripley

Intolerance out of control can be devastating.............. It has a snowball effect.

I wonder if the Right Wing Christian Fundies in this Country would stone an adulterer or burn a Witch if they could get away with it?

[Feanor]

Get serious dude. "jump at the chance to hang a black person". The thread started regarding what is going on in the middle east and then blaming the right wing Christians I think is kind of a stretch. I smell another left wingnut (wing nut is a special nut). I my self am a centralist who sits back scratching my head as I look on at all the far right nuts and the far left wingnuts who really dont have a clue. Yeah, there maybe a few people who would hang a person just because they are different color or kill them in another way but its not just whites its also blacks and others that think this way and should be prosecuted and put in jail for ever or executed if they commit the crime. Also, can you say OJ? In the good ol USA everyone is equal except by how much money they have to pay for an attorney to get them out of a crime they did do. As for the original post regarding the middle east its not only the women who are killed its the men also. If a man has sex with a woman and they are not married in some areas they will cut the mans penis off <ouch> and if they steal they cut off the hand they eat with so they have to eat with the hand that they wipe their butt with and they dont have toilet paper in most places there. I think part of the problem in the middle east and elsewhere is the issue of education and the religious fanantics want to only educate the people according to their interpretation of religious text and can be pretty whacked out, kinda like views of Charles Manson in his interpretaion of the religion. It may well be that we the so called educated people may find some things in other places of the planet horrendous and rightfully so but its their country and if it works for them thats great but if they try to force their views on us then its an issue, a major one and vice versa I would assume with them on us forcing our way's on them. If the people dont like whats going on then the people have to either change it or leave to a place that they feel is better for them.<gets off soap box and kicks it aside>

Let's say this Muslim girl don't feel good where she is right now and decide do move to another place, where she can be "safe" another country for example. Probably she will be safe and won't be stoned to death in US or Brazil or England but will she be accepted as human and will the natives of the now safe place treat her equally and not just pur her aside because of her doctrine and ethnic? These days, I really doubt. There is racism everywhere.

As for: Its their country, they do what they want, I disagree, completely with this idea because the world is only one. And what is RACE? Race is HUMAN, race is canine, feline. This is race. If I am black or Caucasian or Japanese, this is ETINIC not race, we are all HUMAN don't matter what we believe and where we live or eat, we are all fro the same race.

People use religion these days to justify murder. Killings in the name of God for they own delight.

Respect the religion of other cultures is fair, use religion to wage war, commit crimes is something completely different but it is what is happening these days and we choose to turn our back to these problems and let it be. I don’t believe there is a God anywhere who approve this kind of actions humanity are following.

[Essene]

When in Rome do as the Romans do... I would write more but I dont think you would get it. «Prev Next»Back to resultsMain Entry: 3race

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza

1 : a breeding stock of animals

2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by community of interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>

3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species ; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type

Let's say this Muslim girl don't feel good where she is right now and decide do move to another place, where she can be "safe" another country for example. Probably she will be safe and won't be stoned to death in US or Brazil or England but will she be accepted as human and will the natives of the now safe place treat her equally and not just pur her aside because of her doctrine and ethnic? These days, I really doubt. There is racism everywhere.

As for: Its their country, they do what they want, I disagree, completely with this idea because the world is only one. And what is RACE? Race is HUMAN, race is canine, feline. This is race. If I am black or Caucasian or Japanese, this is ETINIC not race, we are all HUMAN don't matter what we believe and where we live or eat, we are all fro the same race.

People use religion these days to justify murder. Killings in the name of God for they own delight.

Respect the religion of other cultures is fair, use religion to wage war, commit crimes is something completely different but it is what is happening these days and we choose to turn our back to these problems and let it be. I don’t believe there is a God anywhere who approve this kind of actions humanity are following.

[Feanor]

When in Rome do as the Romans do... I would write more but I dont think you would get it. «Prev Next»Back to resultsMain Entry: 3race

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza

1 : a breeding stock of animals

2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by community of interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>

3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species ; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type

I know precisely those definitions and don’t judge my knowledge and or my capacity of understanding. Also we can make a million definition about humans, we are still the same don’t matter what a dictionary says…

Edited June 4, 2007 by Feanor

[Essene]

Feanor I am not going to waste my time. I have my opinion and you have yours.

I know precisely those definitions and don’t judge my knowledge and or my capacity of understanding. Also we can make a million definition about humans, we are still the same sh** don’t matter what a dictionary says…

[+joc]

And what is RACE? Race is HUMAN, race is canine, feline. This is race. If I am black or Caucasian or Japanese, this is ETINIC not race, we are all HUMAN don't matter what we believe and where we live or eat, we are all fro the same race.

That's Beautiful!

Edited June 2, 2007 by joc