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Sherapy

Religion and shame

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Lt_Ripley
Shame is an indicator that one has gone past the God-given boundaries of the conscience; it is a guide that represents the need for self-correction. It is a message from your conscience to your mind that some correcting needs to be done. Of course this only works if you still have a conscience.

I disagree - years ago it was shameful for women to swim if they showed too much skin

linked-image

it was shameful to wear pants. to smoke or drink. to drive a car. to work outside the home. to not listen to a husband. to not be married or to enjoy sex openly (yikes ) this is just a short list for women . Men have a list as well. ( and still some adhere to it in ways ) they had to make more than their wives , couldn't cry , had no real hand in child rearing , had to be 'tough'. to not have been those things were ( are still unfortunately) considered shameful .

a god given boundary only exists in the minds of man.

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truethat
Thanks for that clip true..... :tu:

I love Stevie Wonder and he got me rocking in my chair..... :wub:

He is sooooo awesome. I'm so proud that my six year old knows who Stevie Wonder is, my other kids like Monty Python and Creedence.

I have a blessed family.

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MUM24/7

true, what are ya doing to me girl ??

I can't even get up and boogie at the moment......Great taste in music doll..... :tu:

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IamsSon
I disagree - years ago it was shameful for women to swim if they showed too much skin

linked-image

it was shameful to wear pants. to smoke or drink. to drive a car. to work outside the home. to not listen to a husband. to not be married or to enjoy sex openly (yikes ) this is just a short list for women . Men have a list as well. ( and still some adhere to it in ways ) they had to make more than their wives , couldn't cry , had no real hand in child rearing , had to be 'tough'. to not have been those things were ( are still unfortunately) considered shameful .

a god given boundary only exists in the minds of man.

Just because humans have added items to be ashamed of arbitrarily does not take away from the idea that there are limits set by God which are delineated by guilt and shame.

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texasgirlheather
I disagree - years ago it was shameful for women to swim if they showed too much skin

linked-image

it was shameful to wear pants. to smoke or drink. to drive a car. to work outside the home. to not listen to a husband. to not be married or to enjoy sex openly (yikes ) this is just a short list for women . Men have a list as well. ( and still some adhere to it in ways ) they had to make more than their wives , couldn't cry , had no real hand in child rearing , had to be 'tough'. to not have been those things were ( are still unfortunately) considered shameful .

a god given boundary only exists in the minds of man.

You are talking about cultural taboos. We are talking about conscience as applied to personal responsibility for wrongdoing.

Culture alters slightly all the time, for better or worse is another argument. That is not the same issue as the God-given conscience each of us is born with, and that is altered personally to whatever degree in each individual by lack of personal responsibility or lack of heeding the conscience.

Society norms do not = personal conscience.

Edited by texasgirlheather

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Sherapy
But religious people are not the only ones who feel guilt and shame. I think all peoples feel shame and guilt whether religious or not. Did you ever feel guilt or shame?

many religious ideas permeate society...no son all people don't feel shame and guilt you may think this as you see through your religion so you assume if you do all must..... these are taught behaviors....

Gw , shadow, hyper, myself do not feel guilt or shame..many have an awareness that its not natural but don't know how to undo it....I don't experince guilt or shame .....

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truethat
Just because humans have added items to be ashamed of arbitrarily does not take away from the idea that there are limits set by God which are delineated by guilt and shame.

Shhhhh God told me that you'd like this!

they aren't wearing pants though....is that bad?

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bumblesue
Just because humans have added items to be ashamed of arbitrarily does not take away from the idea that there are limits set by God which are delineated by guilt and shame.

i think that if you have any morals at all and you do something wrong you will feel guilt. if not then you are nothing but a robot. i dont think it is something we learn but something instilled in us that helps us to correct the things we do wrong. to self correct is to correct with no feelings. i just cant understand this process.

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TheKnight
many religious ideas permeate society...no son all people don't feel shame and guilt you may think this as you see through your religion so you assume if you do all must..... these are taught behaviors....

Gw , shadow, hyper, myself do not feel guilt or shame..many have an awareness that its not natural but don't know how to undo it....I don't experince guilt or shame .....

People who do not feel guilt are a danger to society. It means you are devoid of any natural instinct that will alert you that you are doing wrong. It causes a callous lack of compassion, empathy, kindness, and love. Guilt is necessary because it let's you know when you may have stepped over the line. If you've "taught" yourself not to feel guilt than you've learned how to be less than human.

i think that if you have any morals at all and you do something wrong you will feel guilt. if not then you are nothing but a robot. i dont think it is something we learn but something instilled in us that helps us to correct the things we do wrong. to self correct is to correct with no feelings. i just cant understand this process.

AMEN!.

Edited by Child-Of-Israel

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texasgirlheather
Shhhhh God told me that you'd like this!

they aren't wearing pants though....is that bad?

Hey *searches pockets* what happened to my bottle of pills?

Well true, as we've discussed before on UM, God cares about intent. It depends on why they aren't wearing pants. :w00t:

Edited by texasgirlheather

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Lt_Ripley
But religious people are not the only ones who feel guilt and shame. I think all peoples feel shame and guilt whether religious or not. Did you ever feel guilt or shame?

shame has it's place as does guilt. If we were to hurt someone purposefully and not feel either then we aren't human or are selfish and don't care how our actions affect others.

and everyone feels both eventually. again to not feel them is to have no conscience .

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bumblesue
many religious ideas permeate society...no son all people don't feel shame and guilt you may think this as you see through your religion so you assume if you do all must..... these are taught behaviors....

Gw , shadow, hyper, myself do not feel guilt or shame..many have an awareness that its not natural but don't know how to undo it....I don't experince guilt or shame .....

i really feel sorry for you, and as i said before, i will say a prayer for you.

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truethat
People who do not feel guilt are a danger to society. It means you are devoid of any natural instinct that will alert you that you are doing wrong. It causes a callous lack of compassion, empathy, kindness, and love. Guilt is necessary because it let's you know when you may have stepped over the line. If you've "taught" yourself not to feel guilt than you've learned how to be less than human.

Actually I would disagree strongly with this. Guilt is a very bad thing to feel because it is usually distorted. Most people feel more shame and guilt than the situation actually merits and this is what causes people to OVER correct.

Being able to assess the situation with a sense of neutrality is important.

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IamsSon
Shhhhh God told me that you'd like this!

they aren't wearing pants though....is that bad?

Santana!!! Yeah! one of my favorites from that CD! Thanks! :wub:

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texasgirlheather
many religious ideas permeate society...no son all people don't feel shame and guilt you may think this as you see through your religion so you assume if you do all must..... these are taught behaviors....

Gw , shadow, hyper, myself do not feel guilt or shame..many have an awareness that its not natural but don't know how to undo it....I don't experince guilt or shame .....

Actually Sheri, it's the psychology faction that you esteem so highly that concurs with Iams, and not you.

Once again:

Psychopathy is a concept subject to much debate, but is usually defined as a constellation of affective, interpersonal, and behavioral characteristics including egocentricity; impulsivity; irresponsibility; shallow emotions; lack of empathy, guilt, or remorse; pathological lying; manipulativeness; and the persistent violation of social norms and expectations (Cleckley 1976; Hare 1993).

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOCONNOR/428/428lect16.htm

Edited by texasgirlheather

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TheKnight
Actually I would disagree strongly with this. Guilt is a very bad thing to feel because it is usually distorted. Most people feel more shame and guilt than the situation actually merits and this is what causes people to OVER correct.

Being able to assess the situation with a sense of neutrality is important.

It's not bad because it's usually distorted...it's distortion isn't it's fault. Guilt is necessary, guilt that's reasonable. If feel guilty because someone tells you that you haven't "grown up" and instead are living in a "fear construct" than your guilt is unreasonable. Never feel guilty on reasons that are opinions (especially ridiculous ones). But if you murder someone than you need to feel guilt.

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IamsSon
many religious ideas permeate society...no son all people don't feel shame and guilt you may think this as you see through your religion so you assume if you do all must..... these are taught behaviors....

Gw , shadow, hyper, myself do not feel guilt or shame..many have an awareness that its not natural but don't know how to undo it....I don't experince guilt or shame .....

OK, the bath water's gone... where's the baby? :mellow:

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Sherapy
People who do not feel guilt are a danger to society. It means you are devoid of any natural instinct that will alert you that you are doing wrong. It causes a callous lack of compassion, empathy, kindness, and love. Guilt is necessary because it let's you know when you may have stepped over the line. If you've "taught" yourself not to feel guilt than you've learned how to be less than human.

AMEN!.

CI these are the common myths held by christianity its no surprise that all of you can't fathom a life beyond guilt or shame...

You have a conscience that will let you know if you have produced an intended result... what a trip so many think you must feel shame or guilt LOL...i didn't beleive it but again I have much to learn....LOL...

anyhoo thanks all for sharing in the discussion... Its been enlightening......

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bumblesue
OK, the bath water's gone... where's the baby? :mellow:

i am so confussed. WHAT BABY

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Lt_Ripley
You are talking about cultural taboos. We are talking about conscience as applied to personal responsibility for wrongdoing.

Culture alters slightly all the time, for better or worse is another argument. That is not the same issue as the God-given conscience each of us is born with, and that is altered personally to whatever degree in each individual by lack of personal responsibility or lack of heeding the conscience.

Society norms do not = personal conscience.

describe god given conscience.

what my conscience and god are fine with are different than yours . you can't slap your conscience of what god thinks on others because each has their own idea.

My God given conscience says god made gay people exactly as they are and wants them to be happy. Yours may not. My God given conscience says that god doesn't subscribe to one religion or belief. Yours may not. My God given conscience says killing/murder for reasons other than self defense ( and Iraq isn't about self defense) is wrong. period. Yours may not. Some believe killing/murder in any context is wrong and goes against their God given conscience.

that is where the problem lies. when one tries to dictate what God given means.

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texasgirlheather
Gw , shadow, hyper, myself do not feel guilt or shame..

Psychopathy is a concept subject to much debate, but is usually defined as a constellation of affective, interpersonal, and behavioral characteristics including egocentricity; impulsivity; irresponsibility; shallow emotions; lack of empathy, guilt, or remorse; pathological lying; manipulativeness; and the persistent violation of social norms and expectations (Cleckley 1976; Hare 1993).

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOCONNOR/428/428lect16.htm

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truethat

Why can't we all just get along people? Come on? Give peace a chance!

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Lt_Ripley
many religious ideas permeate society...no son all people don't feel shame and guilt you may think this as you see through your religion so you assume if you do all must..... these are taught behaviors....

Gw , shadow, hyper, myself do not feel guilt or shame..many have an awareness that its not natural but don't know how to undo it....I don't experince guilt or shame .....

so you feel no guilt or shame if you intentionally hurt someone ? or is it you have never hurt anyone ? even when angry ? Said something rude ?

Edited by Lt_Ripley

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