"The God Who Wasn't There"

[Arthur Vandolay 0]

Got a good movie! Check out the trailer (There are more clips to the right of the video)

Im still watching the other clips to form a valid opinion myself. So please if you finish them before I do, post post post!

[Arthur Vandolay 0]

I have just finished veiwing the clips (he only has 4 uploaded, it seems to cut out at the end of #4 so I hope he is working on the rest as I type)

Well, what little belief I had left for JC is starting to vanish. I need to take a trip to Amazon and get some new books, particulary the one that has the 22 points of a 'god'. Please watch the clips, it is really well done. Of course it is from a skeptics POV so thats where the bias is located. Still, has a treasure trove of information as well as some funny animations. Not to mention the questions he asks the Fundamentalist Christians.

Not sure where to take the conversation though. So I will just start it with this...

Does anyone else have any fun facts or book titles (non-fiction please, and not by 'money grabbers') that I should be looking into as well. This topic hits close to home for me, because in my 'theorys' of existance JC is/was the linch pin. And if this turns out to be more fact than bias, I get to move on to bigger and better thoughts Any input is good input.

(Remember I am a skeptic, so if you are going to quote the bible etc, please give the source so I can have some 'proof', of course the bible all I need is the verse)

I will keep a log of my research from this point forward, if anything this will make for a great discussion when I have some more 'stuff'.

[MasterPo 4]

Not to knock anyone's faith, just that I've always found it funny (in an oximoronic sense) that people who take such a hard line even violent view also talk about the love, compassion and forgiveness of G-d.

To paraphrase from a song, if Jesus came back today would he wear a Rolex on his television show?

[Arthur Vandolay 0]

Not to knock anyone's faith, just that I've always found it funny (in an oximoronic sense) that people who take such a hard line even violent view also talk about the love, compassion and forgiveness of G-d.

To paraphrase from a song, if Jesus came back today would he wear a Rolex on his television show?

I hope I did not give the impression I was a Christian, far from it in fact. However, I did/do believe that JC was a real person, now well im not so sure on the 'do' part.

[boorite 4]

As far as I can tell, the accounts of JC given in the Bible can't all be strictly factual, but I think they do refer to a person who really existed. I don't see any reason to doubt that there was a leader of a Jewish messianic movement who campaigned for several years before being caught and crucified by the Romans. That's what I think happened, and the Bible accounts are "based on a true story" in the same way that the phrase is used in the TV business.

[boorite 4]

Does anyone else have any fun facts or book titles (non-fiction please, and not by 'money grabbers') that I should be looking into as well. This topic hits close to home for me, because in my 'theorys' of existance JC is/was the linch pin. And if this turns out to be more fact than bias, I get to move on to bigger and better thoughts Any input is good input.

The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, by Hyam Maccoby. It's currently in reprint from Barnes and Noble's publishing arm. Maccoby is a noted rabbinical scholar who is making sense of the Jesus story from a strictly historical, Jewish perspective.

[Arthur Vandolay 0]

The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, by Hyam Maccoby. It's currently in reprint from Barnes and Noble's publishing arm. Maccoby is a noted rabbinical scholar who is making sense of the Jesus story from a strictly historical, Jewish perspective.

Awesomeness! I will add that to my list. Keep in mind I do not mine books that give the religous point of view. As long as they have some scripture or the like to back it up. Of course I prefer actual history, but I can allow the bible/torah etc...

[boorite 4]

Awesomeness! I will add that to my list. Keep in mind I do not mine books that give the religous point of view. As long as they have some scripture or the like to back it up. Of course I prefer actual history, but I can allow the bible/torah etc...

To clarify, Maccoby's approach is strictly historical and very technically so. By "Jewish perspective," I mean he places the Jesus story in the historical context of Jewish people doing Jewish things in Judaea, which is where it belongs. I certainly don't mean that his arguments depend on accepting any tenets of Jewish faith. IOW, it's not a religious point of view, but a historical view of religions and religious persons.

[Nephilim_Slayer 1]

Lots of good satanic propaganda, hope you all enjoy it now, there are no tv's in hell.

Edited May 25, 2007 by Nephilim_Slayer

[Arthur Vandolay 0]

Lots of good satanic propaganda, hope you all enjoy it now, there are no tv's in hell.

What a christian thing to say! Shouldn't you be trying to 'save' us. Oh then you would have to live up to what 'Chrisian' means, CHRIST LIKE. And I have said this before, if a god is childish enough to punish me because I do not believe in him (especially with all this lack of evidence) then @&&^ him, I'll be down in hell. According to the christians satan is at least involved in my life. So he deserves to be paid for all that hard work.

Kinda funny though, same old argument (was even brought up in the clips) Satan did it! It's like the fammily circus, who broke my faith, Not Me! Of course looking at your response, you may have only watched the first clip, check out the others 1 - 4 as of now. They have a very compelling argument. Of course you could stick to your satan gun, thats what the church does when asked about the pre-christ characters. Weak.

**EDIT**

FURTHERMORE, this is not done by Satanists, and is not Satanic in anyway. So please take your lies elsewhere. If anything the fellow making this is Agnostic. (And that is my opinion)

Edited May 26, 2007 by Arthur Vandolay

[lava 0]

Got a good movie! Check out the trailer (There are more clips to the right of the video)

Im still watching the other clips to form a valid opinion myself. So please if you finish them before I do, post post post!

i watched the video. i do not know the purpose of it.

executing gay people is very disturbing idea.

i say Jesus (SAV) was for real and he will come back.

not wearing rolex of course. he would come back with the same clothes he was wearing during his time on earth.

he didnot actually die. he was raised without losing -beat of his heart-

i have no doubt about it.

[Arthur Vandolay 0]

Be sure to watch the OTHER clips too!!

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Watch all 4 clips! The trailer is alright, but the clips have the meat. Very good argument, on the existance of Jesus.

[lava 0]

Be sure to watch the OTHER clips too!!

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Watch all 4 clips! The trailer is alright, but the clips have the meat. Very good argument, on the existance of Jesus.

thank you for giving links.

i do respect you and your understanding as much as i'd respect people who's like me.

the fact remains the same though: someone elses' disbelief can not be evidence for failer of my faith.

i believe it works the same with you; my belief can never declare yours.

so, time will tell my friend

[seanph 2]

Does anyone else have any fun facts or book titles (non-fiction please, and not by 'money grabbers') that I should be looking into as well. This topic hits close to home for me, because in my 'theorys' of existance JC is/was the linch pin. And if this turns out to be more fact than bias, I get to move on to bigger and better thoughts Any input is good input.

Morning AV. I have studied the origins and evolution of Judaism and Christianity for some twenty years now, both from a collegiate (Bc.S., Classics & History: Greco-Roman Culture, Nascent Christianity, Middle Ages) and personal level--fifteen of those years as a devout Christian. My studies led me to atheism/agnosticism. Here are some of my personal favorites, from some of the leading Biblical exegetes in academia ...

The Changing Faces of Jesus by Geza Vermes

http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0142196029/re...;pf_rd_i=507846

The Authentic Gospel of Jesus by Geza Vermes

http://www.amazon.com/Authentic-Gospel-Jes...8396071-2513522

The Historical Figure of Jesus by E. P. Sanders

http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Figure-Je...8396071-2513522

Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why by Bart D. Ehrman

http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Sto...1736&sr=1-1

The Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew by Bart D. Ehrman

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Christianities-...1736&sr=1-1

The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman

http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Corruption-...1736&sr=1-1

The Gospel of Jesus: In Search of the Original Good News by James M. Robinson

http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Jesus-Search-...1913&sr=1-1

Jesus After 2000 Years: What He Really Said and Did by Gerd Ludemann

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-After-2000-Yea...2006&sr=1-1

50 Jewish Messiahs: The Untold Life Stories of 50 Jewish Messiahs Since Jesus and How They Changed the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Worlds by Jerry Rabow

http://www.amazon.com/50-Jewish-Messiahs-S...2070&sr=1-1

River of God, The: A New History of Christian Origins by Gregory J. Riley

http://www.amazon.com/River-God-History-Ch...2153&sr=1-1

Kindly,

Sean

Edited May 29, 2007 by seanph

[Arthur Vandolay 0]

Morning AV. I have studied the origins and evolution of Judaism and Christianity for some twenty years now, both from a collegiate (Bc.S., Classics & History: Greco-Roman Culture, Nascent Christianity, Middle Ages) and personal level--fifteen of those years as a devout Christian. My studies led me to atheism/agnosticism. Here are some of my personal favorites, from some of the leading Biblical exegetes in academia ...

That's what I was hoping to see, a nice big list! I will get ordering right away, thanks a ton!

[seanph 2]

More than welcome AV. Please let me know if you would like a longer list. I have hundreds of volumes--literally! Oh, and the TC has some of the best lecture series dealing with religion you can buy. I have three of Ehrman's courses on DVD. Excellent!

Teaching Company

http://www.teach12.com/store/professor.asp?ID=150

AND:

List

http://www.teach12.com/Search/WebSearch.as...;imagefield.y=0

A friendly tip ... I buy all my texts from Amazon used. You save a ton. I can buy three books for what I would pay for a new one.

Kindly,

Sean

Edited May 29, 2007 by seanph