More honour killings...

[SeaMare]

Yeah, they were from L.A. I think. It just goes to show that there is something bad wrong with us just under the surface.

Hmmm....more likely, having become so entrenched in your point of view that you feel you're betraying your ideals if you're saying something your opponents would agree on. Happens on both sides. Totally warps realistic perspectives of course, & polarizes people even more.

[Lord Umbarger]

more likely, having become so entrenched in your point of view that you feel you're betraying your ideals if you're saying something your opponents would agree on.

I hope that you're right. Unfortunately, some nut is going to hear them and take them seriously. Before you know it there will be some kind of "acceptance movement" firing up somewhere.

[bee]

[ you make value judgements, justifying one murder as more acceptable than another,

I don't know why you are trying to be so provocative and make out I'm saying something that I'm not.

All murders are terrible. But the subject of this topic is 'honour' killings in the UK.

I DO think that these kind of killings are in a category of their own, not worse, but have to be considered

in a different way.

The use of the word 'honour' for a start.And as I said before....the religious and cultural collusion.

The calculating aspect, when members of a family gang up to 'do away with' one of their own....for

reasons of 'honour'. It's usually a woman that is killed....but sometimes men as well.

There are real problems brewing in the UK (i don't know where you're from)resulting from cultural differences,

and so called 'honour' killings is one of them.

Many muslims integrate...but there are many that have no intention of integrating and are actively

resisting adopting the values of the country they, or their parents/grandparents came to live in.

You will be pleased to hear that ALL murders are treated the same under the laws of this country.

An 'honour' killing is just murder....plain and simple.

'Honour' killings in the UK is the topic and this is what I am commenting on.

Human beings do terrible things...in every culture and country of the world. That is agreed.

In my opinion so called 'honour' killings is just ONE category of these terrible things...but it does have a

set of circumstances that are repeated over and over...they said on the news that possibly one murder a

month in the UK comes under this category.

[Lord Umbarger]

There is no place in a civilised world for people who commit "Honor Killings". All an honor killing is, is murdering a woman because you do not aprove of her desire to be her own woman or because you don't thik that she is muslim enough.

Did you know that they "honor kill" rape victims in some circumstances? Yeah, and the man might get nothing in the way of punishment. All he has to say is that she was acting or dressed in a suductive way. Yeah, if she shows a little ankle or something, getting raped is her fault! Now, if that doesn't just have lunch with evil, nothing does.

[Celumnaz]

insecurity killings?

[Moon Monkey]

They come over here, thinking they can still carry on the same life and make people carry on how they want them to live life.

It can’t happen any more, they can’t carry on here.

Sound like the words of someone who would quickly be termed a racist or little englander but its a quote from the sister of the dead girl:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007270252,00.html

[Feanor]

They come over here, thinking they can still carry on the same life and make people carry on how they want them to live life.

It can’t happen any more, they can’t carry on here.

Sound like the words of someone who would quickly be termed a racist or little englander but its a quote from the sister of the dead girl:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007270252,00.html

Thank you for the link.

I feel so sorry for these women who suffer under the claws of those cowards who deem themselves as men. That’s so wrong and so hard to understand, it’s impossible to agree with something like this. It’s their culture, but I see only violence and intolerance within it. Poor girl, I hope someone really helps her and I hope those murders pay for what they have done.

[Lord Umbarger]

They come over here, thinking they can still carry on the same life and make people carry on how they want them to live life.

I understand bringing part of your heritage with you to a new home. Italians did it coming to America and I get pizza. Mexicans do it coming from Mexico and I get Fajita taco salad. Germans did it and I get Beef Franks, etc. But, note, these things that I mention are the good parts of the cultures, not the bad. If you are going to carry all of your native culture to the new nation, why leave the old one? If you are going to insist on Sharia law and honor killings and the rot, why not just stay were you were? At least then you won't go to jail for commiting acts of beastlike savagery.

[Feanor]

I understand bringing part of your heritage with you to a new home. Italians did it coming to America and I get pizza. Mexicans do it coming from Mexico and I get Fajita taco salad. Germans did it and I get Beef Franks, etc. But, note, these things that I mention are the good parts of the cultures, not the bad. If you are going to carry all of your native culture to the new nation, why leave the old one? If you are going to insist on Sharia law and honor killings and the rot, why not just stay were you were? At least then you won't go to jail for commiting acts of beastlike savagery.

That’s true. If I want to be the same, why move to someplace new?

I hope the Brazilians when they go to other country take there only Feijoada (Yumy!!!) and other good things!!

[ships-cat]

'Honour Kilings' are repugnant, but we should be cautious of raising this is a 'Muslim' issue. As another poster has already pointed out, murder of one family member by another(s) crosses all cultural divides in the UK, and has gone on for a long long time. (indeed, it constitutes most of the history of our Monarchy). The reasons - jealousy or outrage - are not disimilar to those sited for 'Honour Killings'.

Meow Purr.

[Thozzman]

Whoop-de-doo. The vast majorities of all murders are comitted by a family member or someone close to the victom. 100 of these "honour killings" in UK during the past year? There were 16 thousand murders in the US in 2005. You don't think out of 16,000 there were at least 100 were a father killed his daughter because she was a ****? Or a husband killed his wife because she cheated on him? The only reason these aren't "honor killings" is because they haven't been packaged as "christian" by the media and given a snappy title. When a muslim kills a family member its an "honor killing". When a fat white guy beats his kid to death in Alabama, its just a darn shame.

These are warped assumptions that are absurd. It's not part of western culture to do honor killings.

If you want to take it that far, ALL murders are honor killings. I don't buy it for a second.

[Celumnaz]

in France I think there's special cases for "crimes of passion" or some such... jealous husband (honor? insecurity? justified victim of immorality?)

Maybe it was Italy?

Battered wife defense?

[Bill Hill]

I feel so sorry for these women who suffer under the claws of those cowards who deem themselves as men.

I hear what you're saying.. but when these muslim women are running at you, mouth open, making a high pitched squall, holding an AK-47, then you lose sympathy.

Muslim women are just as much to blame for the er 'backwardness' of their culture as the men and they will defend it to the death. "dooolal la Laa!'

[Feanor]

I hear what you're saying.. but when these muslim women are running at you, mouth open, making a high pitched squall, holding an AK-47, then you lose sympathy.

Muslim women are just as much to blame for the er 'backwardness' of their culture as the men and they will defend it to the death. "dooolal la Laa!'

I understand, but I see more women being castigated than attacking.

I know that there is women who go to war, with AK-47 on their hands but I saw few doing this, in news, documentaries, etc.

The problem is that we usually generalize. Every ***X is evil, every YYYYY are racists, but not, everywhere there are those who are good, who thinks different from the evil ones. Well, I don’t know if I am expressing myself well but women yet these days, 21st century, still suffer in the hands of man in many places of the world. Still are marginalized and put as secondary and this is totally wrong.

I am not defending all muslins nor any other ethnic but children and women suffer a lot in this culture since birth and I feel bad for this.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Feanor

[ships-cat]

These are warped assumptions that are absurd. It's not part of western culture to do honor killings.

If you want to take it that far, ALL murders are honor killings. I don't buy it for a second.

Really ? then consider this. According to a Cambridgeshire Police analysis..

Almost half of all murders committed in the UK are domestic linked, with one woman murdered by a partner or ex-partner every three days.

see full article here

in France I think there's special cases for "crimes of passion" or some such... jealous husband (honor? insecurity? justified victim of immorality?)

Maybe it was Italy?

Battered wife defense?

Yes, it was the crime passionnel , but I gather this was removed some time in the 1970's

I hear what you're saying.. but when these muslim women are running at you, mouth open, making a high pitched squall, holding an AK-47, then you lose sympathy.

But... this isn't just Muslims Billhill... even your local co-op checkout girl does this to you. What IS this effect you have on women ?

Meow Purr.

Edited June 14, 2007 by ships-cat

[contactismade]

Well these big men killed a helpless teenager who did no wrong to anyone. And it only took 5 of them, im impresssed. (this is sarcasm for those of you about to tell me off so relax) Its funny they can all gang up and kill this innocent girl, but they can't work any moxie up to defend thier own country, they just run away. Then throw a grenade at you when your in a crowded market and you can't see them. Their whole society is about covering what they don't want you to see, the ugliness of thier nature. if thier religion was the answer would they have been squabbling about it for 5000 years? its just stupid. We have elements that are distasteful in our culture too. But these guys use religion to condone things that are horrendous. If we are all backwards, what are they?

[Bill Hill]

But... this isn't just Muslims Billhill... even your local co-op checkout girl does this to you. What IS this effect you have on women ?

well, I don't know if that's a good example ship's cat because my local co-op checkout girl is a muslim.

edit success imageshack

Edited June 14, 2007 by billyhill

[ships-cat]

well, I don't know if that's a good example ship's cat because my local co-op checkout girl is a muslim.

edit success imageshack

Bizarre - she looks like one of the Cylons from Battlestar Galactica.

Can you get her to say "By Your Command" ?

Meow Purr.

[contactismade]

She actually looks like one of the elite gaurds for Darth Vader in Star Wars.

[Moon Monkey]

'Honour Kilings' are repugnant, but we should be cautious of raising this is a 'Muslim' issue. As another poster has already pointed out, murder of one family member by another(s) crosses all cultural divides in the UK, and has gone on for a long long time. (indeed, it constitutes most of the history of our Monarchy). The reasons - jealousy or outrage - are not disimilar to those sited for 'Honour Killings'.

Meow Purr.

The case in this thread is accepted as a honour killing, it happens to be muslims but any society that brings this sort of thing to Britain is really not wanted. Its the cold blooded calculation to kill their own daughter for no good reason ( if there ever could be a good reason for murder ) and the lack of help the girl could get either within her community, family or from the authorities that I found particularily gut wrenching. She knew it was coming but couldn't stop it.

[The Unseen]

Whoop-de-doo. The vast majorities of all murders are comitted by a family member or someone close to the victom. 100 of these "honour killings" in UK during the past year? There were 16 thousand murders in the US in 2005. You don't think out of 16,000 there were at least 100 were a father killed his daughter because she was a ****? Or a husband killed his wife because she cheated on him? The only reason these aren't "honor killings" is because they haven't been packaged as "christian" by the media and given a snappy title. When a muslim kills a family member its an "honor killing". When a fat white guy beats his kid to death in Alabama, its just a darn shame.

ya said a mouth full,I agree.

[Moon Monkey]

Whoop-de-doo. The vast majorities of all murders are comitted by a family member or someone close to the victom. 100 of these "honour killings" in UK during the past year? There were 16 thousand murders in the US in 2005. You don't think out of 16,000 there were at least 100 were a father killed his daughter because she was a ****? Or a husband killed his wife because she cheated on him? The only reason these aren't "honor killings" is because they haven't been packaged as "christian" by the media and given a snappy title. When a muslim kills a family member its an "honor killing". When a fat white guy beats his kid to death in Alabama, its just a darn shame.

Not sure of the UK murder figures but for the ratio to be equivalent there would have had to be well over 5,000 'christian' family honor murders here in the last 10 years, I am sure we would have heard about them as murders here still generally get covered nationally especially when there is an angle (not some drunken fight), or maybe its a massive cover up.

[Feanor]

The case in this thread is accepted as a honour killing, it happens to be muslims but any society that brings this sort of thing to Britain is really not wanted. Its the cold blooded calculation to kill their own daughter for no good reason ( if there ever could be a good reason for murder ) and the lack of help the girl could get either within her community, family or from the authorities that I found particularily gut wrenching. She knew it was coming but couldn't stop it.

Well, What if she killed them first, what would happen? Probably she would be thrown in jail. Even if she was doing that for her own safety… It would be wrong, but perhaps the only good reason; survival.

[Feanor]

well, I don't know if that's a good example ship's cat because my local co-op checkout girl is a muslim.

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What life is this? How can someone live like this? This is freaking…

[hetrodoxly]

Really ? then consider this. According to a Cambridgeshire Police analysis..

see full article here

Yes, it was the crime passionnel , but I gather this was removed some time in the 1970's

But... this isn't just Muslims Billhill... even your local co-op checkout girl does this to you. What IS this effect you have on women ?

Meow Purr.

I think you'll find muslims do all the other types of murder's you refer to, plus the honour killing's