Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Scotland = U.K.


keithisco

Recommended Posts

Why is it that many Scottish people think they are not, or should not, be part of the United Kingdom?

Scotland is, and always has been , a net beneficiary within the union, the Sassenachs (English) have propped up their economy for centuries.

Is it because they cannot forget "certain" battles? Do they want to return to the "rich - List" in position 87? Scotland is simply not viable om its own, it needs to be part of the larger Union

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 28
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Talon

    5

  • keithisco

    5

  • glorybebe

    3

  • ifisurvive

    3

Top Posters In This Topic

I live in Stoke-On-Trent, England. There are loads of Scots around here. No prob.Good people.Fxxk ancient battles, its 2007.***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You want to know the reason more than anything I hate the UK? Its because of all the geographically challenged foreigners who call my country ‘north England’. The UK is not England, England is only a member of the UK, in the same way Florida is a member of the US, but the US is not Florida. However the UK is seen by the rest of the world as England, my country is NOT England, and the only way it seems to have my country recognised by the international community is to leave the UK.

Plus, I want a government closer to home to be making decisions, not Westminster.

I want rid of the Monarchy, but that will never happen so long as we remain in the UK.

I want an emphasis placed upon Scottish culture in Scotland, something successive Westminster governments have persecuted.

I never want to have to put up with another Tory government, a party only the English vote in. If the English want Tory-rule that’s fine, but I’d rather keep the Celtophobes away from me.

Scotland as been used for decades as a dumping ground by Westminster for nuclear waste and released criminals – I do not want my country to be a waste site for England, so I want out.

Lastly, despite all the propaganda by the Tories, I do not believe at all that Scotland benefits from the UK economically, especially when Thatcher spent 10 years moving jobs from up here down south which has left us with unemployment problems to this day – something the Tories use to claim is evidence Scotland needs the UK, rather than a problem caused by them.

Edited by Talon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is it that many Scottish people think they are not, or should not, be part of the United Kingdom?

Scotland is, and always has been , a net beneficiary within the union, the Sassenachs (English) have propped up their economy for centuries.

Is it because they cannot forget "certain" battles? Do they want to return to the "rich - List" in position 87? Scotland is simply not viable om its own, it needs to be part of the larger Union

UUUMMMM....if you refresh yourself with the history, look at how long they had ongoing 'wars' with other clans. I read once that the Scot's memories are long and it really seems like that is true. My Scottish ancestors would not recognize that they were part of the UK, either. Maybe it was the way they were brought in, not totally sure, but, well, look how the US ended up leaving the British Empire. Just because a country may have economic benefits doesn't mean that they like everything about being part of that nation. We have that here in Canada, look at Quebec threatening to separate all the time. If you look at history, how many countries are still under British rule? India has it's Independence, as do the US and Canada. The only other country/territory that seems to still be proud of it's ties to Britain are the British West Indies. There are a lot of people who have hard feelings to wards England because of the way the people were treated when Britain took them over...to me, well, it's just silly, it didn't happen to me or my close family. Humans just love to hold on to their past rather than learn from it and to look to the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You want to know the reason more than anything I hate the UK? Its because of all the stupid foreigners who call my country ‘north England’. The UK is seen by the rest of the world as England, my country is NOT England, and the only way it seems to have my country recognised by the international community is to leave the UK.

Plus, I want a government closer to home to be making decisions, not Westminster.

I want rid of the Monarchy.

I want an emphasis placed upon Scottish culture in Scotland, something successful Westminster governments have persecuted.

I never want to have to put up with another Tory government, a party only the English vote in. If the English want Tory that’s fine, but I’d rather keep the Celtophobes away from me.

Scotland as been used for decades as a dumping ground by Westminster for nuclear waste and released criminals – I do not want my country to be a waste site for England, so I want out.

Lastly, despite all the propaganda by the Tories, I do not believe the at all that Scotland benefits from the UK economically, especially when Thatcher spent 10 years moving jobs from up here down south which has left us with unemployment problems to this day – something the Tories use to claim is evidence Scotland needs the UK, rather than a problem caused by them.

Thanks for the info, it is more meaningful to actually hear from someone who knows first hand information. And, maybe it will help others understand where Scottish people are still coming from, not just historically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want another reason, look at what you said about America and Canada. Both populations are mainly the decendents of Scots, Irish, Welsh and English (i.e. UK races). Yet they wanted out, because the beleived they would be better off that way and they wanted the self-respect of being independent. Whats wrong with the nations that founded the UK wanting to leave it also for the same reasons?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You want to know the reason more than anything I hate the UK? Its because of all the geographically challenged foreigners who call my country ‘north England’. The UK is not England, England is only a member of the UK, in the same way Florida is a member of the US, but the US is not Florida. However the UK is seen by the rest of the world as England, my country is NOT England, and the only way it seems to have my country recognised by the international community is to leave the UK.

Plus, I want a government closer to home to be making decisions, not Westminster.

I want rid of the Monarchy, but that will never happen so long as we remain in the UK.

I want an emphasis placed upon Scottish culture in Scotland, something successive Westminster governments have persecuted.

I never want to have to put up with another Tory government, a party only the English vote in. If the English want Tory-rule that’s fine, but I’d rather keep the Celtophobes away from me.

Scotland as been used for decades as a dumping ground by Westminster for nuclear waste and released criminals – I do not want my country to be a waste site for England, so I want out.

Lastly, despite all the propaganda by the Tories, I do not believe at all that Scotland benefits from the UK economically, especially when Thatcher spent 10 years moving jobs from up here down south which has left us with unemployment problems to this day – something the Tories use to claim is evidence Scotland needs the UK, rather than a problem caused by them.

Surely being referred to as "North England" is the fault of the Educational Systems in those countries?

Scotland has a great many devolved powers, and a separate Judicature, and Education system. If you are blaming Westminster for not emphasising Scottish Culture then perhaps you are blaming the wrong people. Perhaps the Scottish Education System is failing Scotland in this regard. Ialso point out that English MP's are NOT allowed to vote on purely Scottish issues, however, Scottish MP's are allowed to vote on purely English issues.

There has not been a Tory Government in the UK for 10 years (in case you missed that). and most of your arguments, points of view seem to be based around them. I despise the Tory party as well, for being arrogant and divisive.

The National Office of Statistics supports my claim that Scotland is, and has been for several decades, a net beneficiary in terms of regional development, and national projects.

Isnt the Prime Minister Scottish (Gordon Brown)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is it that many Scottish people think they are not, or should not, be part of the United Kingdom?

Scotland is, and always has been , a net beneficiary within the union, the Sassenachs (English) have propped up their economy for centuries.

Is it because they cannot forget "certain" battles? Do they want to return to the "rich - List" in position 87? Scotland is simply not viable om its own, it needs to be part of the larger Union

Because Scottish people have the highlander, and we don't need to be in the UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want another reason, look at what you said about America and Canada. Both populations are mainly the decendents of Scots, Irish, Welsh and English (i.e. UK races). Yet they wanted out, because the beleived they would be better off that way and they wanted the self-respect of being independent. Whats wrong with the nations that founded the UK wanting to leave it also for the same reasons?

I don't find anything wrong with it personally, I am proud that Canada is it's own country and understand why Scotland would want it's independance. Now, this is what you are experiencing. So, it won't be silly to you, since you are experiencing it. I just had listened to my Scottish aunts and even my English aunts rail against the English. But, that is where my "it didn't happen to me" comes from so many people blaming past actions that weren't even done to them. You obviously are experiencing this, so the circumstances are different.

The only Welsh person I met, I had called British, well, he snapped, "I am NOT British, I am Welsh!" That was a lesson, I will tell you! LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely being referred to as "North England" is the fault of the Educational Systems in those countries?

And Education system that can continue to tell people the entire UK belongs to England if it wants, but will no longer matter since we will not be in it.

Scotland has a great many devolved powers, and a separate Judicature, and Education system. If you are blaming Westminster for not emphasising Scottish Culture then perhaps you are blaming the wrong people. Perhaps the Scottish Education System is failing Scotland in this regard.

I think you over estimate just how many powers Scotland’s parliament actually have. Also, that parliament has only been around for 10 years, hardly enough time to undo the damage of the Union's in 300 years, which during its time has included Westminster making Scottish culture illegal including banning tartan, kilts, bagpipes and speaking Gaelic during the 1700s, during which Scotland’s culture was irreversibly changed and has never recovered despite these things being legalised at a later time.

Britain is ruled by England’s culture as England makes up largest population, even with devolved power the indigenous Celtic cultures in Wales, Cornwall and Scotland will never be able to regenerate. Only 1.5% of Scots speak Gaelic or Manx Gaelic, the rest of us speak English only, and Britain is hardly going to recognise Gaelic as a language it needs to promote as that of an indigenous race, its quite happy to let it die. This and similar crimes against the native culture will only stop if the UK breaks up.

Ialso point out that English MP's are NOT allowed to vote on purely Scottish issues, however, Scottish MP's are allowed to vote on purely English issues.

For 300 hundred years English MPs who have always out numbered Scots MPs have voted on Scots matters, it shows a truly thin-skin and double-standards on anyone who moans about this when its reversed for 10 years. In 290 years, you may complain about this.

There has not been a Tory Government in the UK for 10 years (in case you missed that). and most of your arguments, points of view seem to be based around them. I despise the Tory party as well, for being arrogant and divisive.

In case you missed it, 10 years is not a long time. The Tories have controlled Parliament in the last 300 years more than any other parties put together. The Tories have controlled the UK for 70% of my life, so yes they are a huge factor in my points of view and considering the support they have in England, they are very much a continuing threat.

10 years out of power does not suddenly mean the last 300 years do not count, or that magically mean they are not going to gain power ever again.

The National Office of Statistics supports my claim that Scotland is, and has been for several decades, a net beneficiary in terms of regional development, and national projects.

Scotland is a resource rich western nation, of course we have had regional development and national projects, as has every western European state. It come solely from being in the UK. If we such leaches on the UK's economy as the Tories claim, then are the Tories so desperate to hold onto us?!

Isnt the Prime Minister Scottish (Gordon Brown)?

… And? There have been 7 Scots PMs and 44 English PMs, what’s your point?

As members of the UK we have every right to be voted in as PM. However, 50% of English voters according to a poll I saw recently believe Scots shouldn’t be allowed to run the UK, which is btw racist and hardly makes us equals in the UK. 50% of English believing Scots, despite being UK members, are not equal enough to lead the country and I’m supposed to be happy with this? If it was blacks or jews who 50% of English didn't want to be PM there would be outrage, but its okay its not racist to think ill thoughts about the 'Jocks'.

Well, this is one ‘jock’ who is not happy with the scraps from the table.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you'll find a large percentage of English people don't want to be part of the union either, and if the west Lothian question isn't answered soon the English will breakaway from the union before the scots, it will also give us a chance to get rid of this Scottish government.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...including banning tartan, kilts, bagpipes and speaking Gaelic during the 1700s, during which Scotland’s culture was irreversibly changed and has never recovered despite these things being legalised at a later time...

Gaelic I can understand being impacted, tartan, kilts and bagpipes not so much. What Scottish culture, in your opinion, was irreversibly changed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no way that the European Union will allow Scotland to separate itself from the rest of the UK. Because then Scotland would be a threat to the European countries own national unity.

Look at the areas in Europe that seek a national identity of their own. And how that would Bulkinize Europe. Belgium has a definate Walloon and Flemish areas. France has a Dutch speaking are in the northeast, Brittany and the Basque area in the southwest. Germany gets too many rumbles of "the good old days" when Bavaria was independant. Italy is becoming two areas north of Rome, a Northern Italy wants little to do with Southern Italy.Spain has independance movements in the rest of the Basque area and Catalonia. Switzerland has three language areas. That's just a small number of movements that would spinter Europe. And the EU does not want to see a future EU made up of 50-60 separate state, too many not really viable. And does not want an independant Scotland to give encouragement to break up their existing countries. So figure Scotland would be left out of the EU. Assuming the rest of the UK does not veto the application.

And Scotish independence would give encouragement to other seppratist movements. The Muslim rebellions in southern Thailand and the Philippines for example. And Quebec breaking away from the rest of Canada. Breaking Canada into three. And I don't think Scotland to be responcable for inspiring civil wars and the resulting bloodshed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no way that the European Union will allow Scotland to separate itself from the rest of the UK. Because then Scotland would be a threat to the European countries own national unity.

Look at the areas in Europe that seek a national identity of their own. And how that would Bulkinize Europe. Belgium has a definate Walloon and Flemish areas. France has a Dutch speaking are in the northeast, Brittany and the Basque area in the southwest. Germany gets too many rumbles of "the good old days" when Bavaria was independant. Italy is becoming two areas north of Rome, a Northern Italy wants little to do with Southern Italy.Spain has independance movements in the rest of the Basque area and Catalonia. Switzerland has three language areas. That's just a small number of movements that would spinter Europe. And the EU does not want to see a future EU made up of 50-60 separate state, too many not really viable. And does not want an independant Scotland to give encouragement to break up their existing countries. So figure Scotland would be left out of the EU. Assuming the rest of the UK does not veto the application.

And Scotish independence would give encouragement to other seppratist movements. The Muslim rebellions in southern Thailand and the Philippines for example. And Quebec breaking away from the rest of Canada. Breaking Canada into three. And I don't think Scotland to be responcable for inspiring civil wars and the resulting bloodshed.

You are labouring under a misconception here.... The EU has absolutely no authority or say in UK Constitutional decisions. The EU CANNOT legally, nor militarily, prevent the break - up of the Union.This will be decided by the UK only.

If and when the Scottish Nationalist Party gain a majority in Scotland (not likely for a very long time, if ever) then they can insist on a Scottish referendum proposing independence.

If the vote is 75% in favour of independence then the required enabling Bill will be raised, the Independence CANNOT be vetoed. I, for one support Scottish Independence, they would however then have to negotiate their own terms of entry into the EU.

Despite an earlier response, Scotland is not rich in natural resources, and knowledge - based resources would soon disappear south or to other "Foreign States".

TALON.... Gaelic, along with Welsh, is actively encouraged - all place names in Wales are bi-lingual, their Education system actively suports Welsh speaking (their system of education is entirely the same as Englands) so you cannot claim being subjugated in this area. As for your other comments, they are almost all 300 years out of date. The English got over the occupation of William the Conqueror in less than 200 years!!

It is also quite wrong to say that the Tory party have held political sway for 75% of English Parliamentary Democracy, (FYI Tory is derived from the Gaelic word "Tóraidhe"). The Tory Party itself is a misnomer, it has only EVER been a faction, almost a sect within Parliament. The WHIG party (although strictly speaking party politics is a modern invention) has held far greater sway. The Whigs eventually DID become the Liberal party.

Edited by keithisco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you'll find a large percentage of English people don't want to be part of the union either, and if the west Lothian question isn't answered soon the English will breakaway from the union before the scots, it will also give us a chance to get rid of this Scottish government.

Then go ahead, do it. What are you waiting for?! If we’re such a drain on you, if we’re nothing but a race of sub-human leaches why are your leaders so desperate to hold onto us?! If England wants to leave the UK more than Scot, then go!

Gaelic I can understand being impacted, tartan, kilts and bagpipes not so much. What Scottish culture, in your opinion, was irreversibly changed?

Everything, the UK is a Celtic-Anglo alliance, 3 Celtic nations (Scotland, Wales, North Ireland) and 2 Celtic regions (Isle of Man, Cornwall) and 1 Anglo nation (England). Yet the UK is globally seen as an Anglo nation, hence why we refer to the Coalition as the Anglo-American Alliance. 3/4s of the UK members being Celtic, and yet we are referred to as Anglos, and why is this? Because Angelo-Saxon culture is dominate in Britain, not Celtic.

Have the hostility towards the UK in Scotland would not exist if it wasn’t for successive Westminster governments cracking down on our culture. Like every other indigenous race who rose up against the British Empire, we have EVERY right to demand our culture dominate our country.

There is no way that the European Union will allow Scotland to separate itself from the rest of the UK. Because then Scotland would be a threat to the European countries own national unity.

Are you suggesting, that the EU is going to invade a democratic country, which has democratically elected to leave the UK? Don’t be absurd, the EU is pacifistic, it hasn’t got the stomach to invade anti-western dictatorships, is not going to start invading a pro-western democracy.

I mean this in the nicest way - Don’t talk such utter tripe.

Despite an earlier response, Scotland is not rich in natural resources, and knowledge - based resources would soon disappear south or to other "Foreign States".

Fine, if we’re a race of parasites, then why is the UK so desperate to hold onto us? The most anti-Scottish parties in the UK are also the most pro Union. Thatcher loves saying the Scots were a race of scum who leached of English and the English would be better off without us, but my god did she fight to kept the Union together.

TALON.... Gaelic, along with Welsh, is actively encouraged - all place names in Wales are bi-lingual, their Education system actively suports Welsh speaking (their system of education is entirely the same as Englands) so you cannot claim being subjugated in this area. As for your other comments, they are almost all 300 years out of date. The English got over the occupation of William the Conqueror in less than 200 years!!

Welsh and Gaelic have only been recognised in the UK since 1993 and 2005 respectively, by the Welsh Language Act 1993 and by the Scottish Parliament’s Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005. Fourteen years and two years respectively of change does not negate the Union’s centuries long oppression of the language. You might believe that these changes warrant us forgiving the Union and putting it in the past, I can’t; fact is my people’s culture has been persecuted for 300 years by the UK, and I have no intention of remaining part of it just because a few changes are being made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Language_Act_1993

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_Langua...tland)_Act_2005

It is also quite wrong to say that the Tory party have held political sway for 75% of English Parliamentary Democracy, (FYI Tory is derived from the Gaelic word "Tóraidhe"). The Tory Party itself is a misnomer, it has only EVER been a faction, almost a sect within Parliament. The WHIG party (although strictly speaking party politics is a modern invention) has held far greater sway. The Whigs eventually DID become the Liberal party.

First, I never said the Tories held control of ‘English Parliamentary Democracy’, because England does not have Parliament, it dissolved its own Parliament, by its own choice in 1707 to form the British Parliament. I’ve already said in this thread before that Britain is not part of England – and the constant claims by foreigners that it is the biggest factor in me wanting to the kill the UK!!

Second, I think your thinking of something else, I assure you the Tory party is not a faction, it’s a political party, and it run the UK for most of its existence. I'm from Britain, I think I know the face of my enemy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_%28UK%29

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm english and don't really have anything against the welsh,scottish or irish but why can't we just become different entities. I hate the term british, that term means nothing .I'm English, *** is scottich, ***xx is irish, ***xx is welsh. We speak the same language, have pretty much the same culture and lifestyles but we also have our differences, its like north americans and canadians.They are continuously trying to wipe away each countries nationality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm english and don't really have anything against the welsh,scottish or irish but why can't we just become different entities. I hate the term british, that term means nothing .I'm English, *** is scottich, ***xx is irish, ***xx is welsh. We speak the same language, have pretty much the same culture and lifestyles but we also have our differences, its like north americans and canadians.They are continuously trying to wipe away each countries nationality.

Im Irish, I agree with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im Irish, I agree with you.

I also totally agree. We should be celebrating each nations cultural differences, and if enough of the populations in each of the 4 nations want independence then I would be the first to advocate such a break-up. It would not lead to Balkanisation (previous post)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm english and don't really have anything against the welsh,scottish or irish but why can't we just become different entities. I hate the term british, that term means nothing .I'm English, *** is scottich, ***xx is irish, ***xx is welsh. We speak the same language, have pretty much the same culture and lifestyles but we also have our differences, its like north americans and canadians.They are continuously trying to wipe away each countries nationality.

I'm Scottish and I don't have a problem with the English. I do have a problem however with Westminster and the entity of the UK.

And I agree, that while I want Celtic languages to be protected and reintroduced in their home nations, it does make things easier to speak English. It would be easier if everyone was bilingual and we all spoke our natives language and English too (English I say, because its the most wide-spread spoken language in the world so makes sense to start there - more speak Chinese, put is limited to a single region of the world). Indeed our cultures are similar as western culture is increasingly defined by the US, whose population are mainly the decedents of Anglos and Celts from the British Isles. I believe we should recognise our similarities and share the future together, however, I do believe that our past culture should enrich us and not be forgotten and that nationalism (so long as it does not become xenophobia) should be something to be proud of. Americans should be proud to be American; Canadians proud to be Canada; and hopefully one day the Scots proud to be Scots; English proud to be English; Welsh proud to be Welsh, Cornish proud to be Cornish etc etc rather than, as you say, the artificial term British.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything, the UK is a Celtic-Anglo alliance, 3 Celtic nations (Scotland, Wales, North Ireland) and 2 Celtic regions (Isle of Man, Cornwall) and 1 Anglo nation (England). Yet the UK is globally seen as an Anglo nation, hence why we refer to the Coalition as the Anglo-American Alliance. 3/4s of the UK members being Celtic, and yet we are referred to as Anglos, and why is this? Because Angelo-Saxon culture is dominate in Britain, not Celtic.

Sorry but most of that is semantics that didn't answer my question. I'm genuinely curious what Scottish culture has been irreversibly changed. I can understand Gaelic has died off (though if only 1.5% of the population currently speak it I can't see the whole nation moving back to speak it again if it got independence) but what else?

What Scottish culture, in your opinion, would still exist or be more prevalent if Scotland had been independent of England for the past 300 years? And if Scotland became independent of the UK tomorrow what Scottish culture would bloom?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed our cultures are similar as western culture is increasingly defined by the US, whose population are mainly the decedents of Anglos and Celts from the British Isles.

True, most of us here are of Anglo-Celt heritage. If you ask most americans about their heritage they would say something like Irish, English, Scottish, American Indian, German, (like myself).

I do have a question. How exactly is the culture being defined by the US in the UK? I'm not there, so I have no idea. I've always been under the impression that the US lacks culture, being it is so new. If anything it's the other way around (from my perspective).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have the hostility towards the UK in Scotland would not exist if it wasn’t for successive Westminster governments cracking down on our culture. Like every other indigenous race who rose up against the British Empire, we have EVERY right to demand our culture dominate our country.

Which Governments, name their leaders and the Acts or Laws that Cracked down on "Scottish Culture" anytime in the last 200 years. There are NONE!!.

Why are you now citing the UK's Imperial past? You, Scotland, played as much a part in colonising as any other member of the Union. I seee the injustice in the colonised countries leading to uprisings, of course I do, but where is your logic.... you have your Culture, whinge on at your own people for not celebrating it. Demand that everybody learns Gaelic as their first language, everybody has to wear the Tartan, return to Crofting,step back to the middle ages if that is what

you want.

Fine, if we’re a race of parasites, then why is the UK so desperate to hold onto us? The most anti-Scottish parties in the UK are also the most pro Union. Thatcher loves saying the Scots were a race of scum who leached of English and the English would be better off without us, but my god did she fight to kept the Union together.

NEVER has Margaret Thatcher uttered these words, and you know it... you are deliberately using inflammatory rhetoric because your own arguments dont hold up to inspection. M. Thatcher re-itterated that if Scotland (not just you) wanted complete Independence then "By god you shall have it!". You just now have to get a majority of people in Scotland to vote for it. NOBODY will prevent it, there is NO veto in such matters for any Union Nation - the enbling legislation will be passed through on the Nod.

Welsh and Gaelic have only been recognised in the UK since 1993 and 2005 respectively, by the Welsh Language Act 1993 and by the Scottish Parliament’s Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005. Fourteen years and two years respectively of change does not negate the Union’s centuries long oppression of the language.

More nonsensical rhetoric, Welsh and celtic have always been recognised, there was suppression of Gaelic in the years immediately following Culloden but not since. The Acts you refer to enshrine in Law the fact that Welsh and Gaelic would receive the complete parity with English... It is up to you and you OWN educational systems to determine whether you want to turn out Gaelic speaking graduates into a fast shrinking Global economy.

You might believe that these changes warrant us forgiving the Union and putting it in the past, I can’t; fact is my people’s culture has been persecuted for 300 years by the UK, and I have no intention of remaining part of it just because a few changes are being made.

I refer to my earlier response re: inflammatory rhetoric based on ignorance, and a lacjk of hitorical perspective and understanding.

Second, I think your thinking of something else, I assure you the Tory party is not a faction, it’s a political party, and it run the UK for most of its existence. I'm from Britain, I think I know the face of my enemy

The origins of the Conservative Party can be traced to the 'Tory' faction which emerged in the later seventeenth century. This 'Tory Party' established a secure hold on government between 1783 and 1830, first under the Younger Pitt and then Lord Liverpool. However, after Liverpool's retirement in 1827 the unity of the party was destroyed when the Duke of Wellington and Robert Peel, were forced, largely as a result of events in Ireland, to concede full political emancipation to Roman Catholics. The Tory collapse opened the way for a return of the Whigs in the 1830s, and a series of measures including the Great Reform Act of 1832 changed the political scene; in the general election which followed the Act the Tories were reduced to only 180 MPs

There has never been a Tory party, it's title is "The Conservative and Unionist Party". Q.E.D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did I say that the EU would use military action against Scotland. No I did not. If I thought they would I would have said so. God, some of you must be drinking the favorite Scotish beverage.

But the EU can prevent Scotland from becoming part of the EU. And anything going out of Scotland to Europe could be subject to trade tariffs. Add a 25% to any Scotish product, and it would be priced out of Europe. Goods made in parts of Africa that the EU has agreements with would be cheeper. Not to mention you would need full passports to move around Europe. And you may have to use your old British passport if European countrys do not diplomaticly recognize Scotland.

The EU does not want a break up of Scotland/Britain or any other country in the EU. Bulkanization of Europe is a great fear of the European leadership. Along with leaders in a lot of other places in the world. And they do not want the flames ignited by those inspired by a break away Scotland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did I say that the EU would use military action against Scotland. No I did not. If I thought they would I would have said so. God, some of you must be drinking the favorite Scotish beverage.

But the EU can prevent Scotland from becoming part of the EU. And anything going out of Scotland to Europe could be subject to trade tariffs. Add a 25% to any Scotish product, and it would be priced out of Europe. Goods made in parts of Africa that the EU has agreements with would be cheeper. Not to mention you would need full passports to move around Europe. And you may have to use your old British passport if European countrys do not diplomaticly recognize Scotland.

The EU does not want a break up of Scotland/Britain or any other country in the EU. Bulkanization of Europe is a great fear of the European leadership. Along with leaders in a lot of other places in the world. And they do not want the flames ignited by those inspired by a break away Scotland.

While it is conceivable that the EU could prevent an independent Scotland joining the EU, realistically, would they prevent a country with the greatest oil reserves in the area from joining? I think not. The EU has embraced nations which would have been inconceivable 20 years ago, such as Poland, so why would Scotland suddenly become a pariah state? Incidentally if any readers want to start the old 'It's not Scotland's oil' argument, please dont waste your breath. There are no countries on the planet where the natural resources immediately off their shores are owned by another nation. They may well be developed by other nations, but the ownership is based on proximity and inclusion in the nations territorial waters etc. For this reason, Norway owns its oil reserves, just as Nigeria owns theirs, Libya theirs etc etc. Only in the UK could an English government have the audacity to say that somehow Scotlands oil is different, and it is for this key reason the government are terrified of independance.

The original post said we are too small a nation to exist outwith the Union. In 1707, Scotland was desperately poor, and yes the Union benefited us. However, the Union was bought against the wishes of the people by the English with bribes to the then landowners and Scottish politicians of the day whose sole interest was lining their own pockets, not the welfare of the nation. However, in 300 years, things have changed. Scotland has a population comparable with and better than some established and thriving states. Our economy is very strong based on solid financial institutions. We have excellent natural resources, power generation with a strong renewable energy focus which grows on a daily basis. Our food production is sufficient for the nation (excluding exotic foodstuffs such as tropical fruits etc) and we have an extremely well educated population working in world renowned institutions which are based and were formed here. Our Universities are world class and we have world class research facilities in the form of genetics and the like which are developing truly ground breaking techniques. You only have to look at the banking institutions in the UK which are dominated by the Bank of Scotland and the Royal bank of Scotland. The idea that somehow we would struggle without the English and/or the rest of the UK to prop us up is propagandist nonsense pumped out by successive English dominated governments to keep the Scots in their place.

Anyway, rant over. The English people by the way are not the problem. Many of my friends and work colleagues are originally from south of the border. No, the real problem is in successive governments which have lied over the years about Scotland and its situation to ensure our subservience to their will. Harold Wilson and his Labour government lied through their teeth about oil in the North sea, and documents released in the last year proved they knew they were lying. OK really rant over

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do have a question. How exactly is the culture being defined by the US in the UK? I'm not there, so I have no idea. I've always been under the impression that the US lacks culture, being it is so new. If anything it's the other way around (from my perspective).

I assume the reference here is to US TV/Hollywood/business being everywhere in western culture. Or any culture probably. Wander into the most remote European hamlet or the deepest jungle of Africa and you'll find someone eating a BigMac who'll be able to tell you the names of everyone in Friends ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.