Zeitgeist debunked

[redhen]

OMG, not another Zeitgeist thread. If there is any conspiracy here, it's the concerted effort by liberal arts college professors and other Leftists who present this garbage to their class as the truth. I had the interesting opportunity to take a general arts & science program recently, and the liberal profs did not disappoint me with their expected bull propaganda.

One such prof (a 911 Truther) pointed the class to a Youtube vid and proclaimed "You tell me how steel turns to dust!" The only thing that could blind an otherwise intelligent person to such lunacy is that it fits in with his ideology.

As for the religious claims in the movie, as others have pointed out here, the claims are just simply invalid.

I'm not a practicing Catholic, but I know bull when I see it.

[Guest]

Religion just cannot be dismissed the way they do on the movie. Once you start researching, you realize that it has been part of humanity since the very beginning, and it’s crucial to the future of mankind. To underestimate ancient beliefs as foolish myths is a big mistake.

Religion is about power and control.

Spirituality is about coming to a direct understanding(Gnosis) of your place in the universe. Religion doesn't want people to realise their place in the universe because that makes them less compliant with their overall agenda. Religion has historically been anti-spiritual and it seems unlikely to change. Spiritual re-awakening will be an important part of a viable future, but the manipulations of religion will not.

This is the message clearly stated in Zeitgeist the movie. It is pro-spirituality and anti-religion which is an entirely supportable position to take.

Br Cornelius

Edited August 19, 2010 by Guest

[redhen]

Religion is about power and control.

Whenever you start off with "Religion is ..." or "Islam is ...", you're making a sweeping generalization.

Spirituality is about coming to a direct understanding(Gnosis) of your place in the universe.

Again, generalization.

Religion doesn't want people to realise their place in the universe because that makes them less compliant with their overall agenda.

There are many religions with no "overall agenda", Daoism, Shintoism, etc., and certainly no one in charge even if they had one.

Religion has historically been anti-spiritual and it seems unlikely to change.

How do you explain all the Catholic/Hindu saints and Muslim/Jewish mystics?

Spiritual re-awakening will be an important part of a viable future, but the manipulations of religion will not.

It depends how they manipulate their members.

This is the message clearly stated in Zeitgeist the movie. It is pro-spirituality and anti-religion which is an entirely supportable position to take.

Hmm, so you think the Zeitgeist producers are down on Judaism or Buddhism or Jainism?

or just Christianity?

That's the message I got.

cheers

[Guest]

Whenever you start off with "Religion is ..." or "Islam is ...", you're making a sweeping generalization.

Again, generalization.

There are many religions with no "overall agenda", Daoism, Shintoism, etc., and certainly no one in charge even if they had one.

How do you explain all the Catholic/Hindu saints and Muslim/Jewish mystics?

It depends how they manipulate their members.

Hmm, so you think the Zeitgeist producers are down on Judaism or Buddhism or Jainism?

or just Christianity?

That's the message I got.

cheers

They used Christianity as an example which would have the most relevance to their target audience and as an example of one of the worst forms.

I think the case can be made against all religions which have allied themselves to states.

The example of Shinto and Shamasnism are much more personal and spiritually focused and could be considered as exceptions to the rule.

Br Cornelius

[Asator]

I thought the movie was amazing! I think all that the movie has intended is working! People are questioning things again! Personally I dont care if some dates are off or some things werent 100% accurate! The point is clear! I am a practicing Asatru'r and most of what they claim in the movie I already know. For example, jesus hung on a cross, wounded by spear, died on the cross and was resurected. Odin hung from a wind swept tree for 9 days and 9 night, wounded by spear, consicrated to himself by himself. Moreover, why do people hang mistletoe at the christmas holidays? Anyone know? Ill tell ya! An ancient norse god named Baldur was killed by mistletoe! How about the 12 days of christmas? My research shows the 12 days to actually be YULE! This has nothing to do with anything, but I know what I know from searching out the truth! Weather the movie has flaws or not doesnt matter! it is most certainly trying its best to WAKE UP THE WORLD! To cure the ignorant of there brainwashing! To get you thinking and to prepare us for where the world is heading!

[The Shrink]

Weather the movie has flaws or not doesnt matter!

It does matter, because when people do deep research and find the mistakes on the movie, they assume that everything on it is B.S., which is not. It's a mix of truths and lies imo.

Anyway I agree that helps people start thinking about life. But like other conspiracy movies, they do not spend much time in presenting solutions, leaving a sense of fear, anxiety and anger on the viewer.

[Guest]

It does matter, because when people do deep research and find the mistakes on the movie, they assume that everything on it is B.S., which is not. It's a mix of truths and lies imo.

Anyway I agree that helps people start thinking about life. But like other conspiracy movies, they do not spend much time in presenting solutions, leaving a sense of fear, anxiety and anger on the viewer.

Zeitgeist addendum spends extensive time considering solutions, it deals with the underlying thought patterns which have led us to the state we are in, and then suggests more productive concepts and ways of approaching problems.

Lets face the fact that pointing out the problem at this time is the essential first step. Only when a critical mass of people are actually thinking about the problems and the solutions can we expect to see progress. Leaving people in their little security bubbles can only make matters worse and that is exactly what those who exploit us want.

Br Cornelius

[The Shrink]

Zeitgeist addendum spends extensive time considering solutions, it deals with the underlying thought patterns which have led us to the state we are in, and then suggests more productive concepts and ways of approaching problems.

Lets face the fact that pointing out the problem at this time is the essential first step. Only when a critical mass of people are actually thinking about the problems and the solutions can we expect to see progress. Leaving people in their little security bubbles can only make matters worse and that is exactly what those who exploit us want.

Br Cornelius

The "problem-reaction-solution" approach in the movie is what I find worth analyzing. I know what is proposed by addendum might sound as a way out, but in reality it simply avoids the root problem imo, which is the responsibility each one of us have in all this. I believe our reality is just the reflection of what we are, not just the result of the conspiracy. We also should face the fact that some people living in their "bubble" are better off than those that "woke up" and do nothing but spread fear and go around blaming the "Illuminati" for all their problems.

I agree that the critical mass must acknowledge that we're living a lie, but the "truth" presented by Zeitgeist is misleading in many ways, so constructive debate is healthy, every subject should be addressed and discussed in detail in order to get the facts straight and avoid further divisions of the mass and an eventual weakening of the truth movement.

[redhen]

I thought the movie was amazing! I think all that the movie has intended is working! People are questioning things again! Personally I dont care if some dates are off or some things werent 100% accurate! The point is clear! I am a practicing Asatru'r and most of what they claim in the movie I already know. For example, jesus hung on a cross, wounded by spear, died on the cross and was resurected. Odin hung from a wind swept tree for 9 days and 9 night, wounded by spear, consicrated to himself by himself. Moreover, why do people hang mistletoe at the christmas holidays? Anyone know? Ill tell ya! An ancient norse god named Baldur was killed by mistletoe! How about the 12 days of christmas? My research shows the 12 days to actually be YULE! This has nothing to do with anything, but I know what I know from searching out the truth! Weather the movie has flaws or not doesnt matter! it is most certainly trying its best to WAKE UP THE WORLD! To cure the ignorant of there brainwashing! To get you thinking and to prepare us for where the world is heading!

Organized religions have always borrowed concepts and rituals from other religions (usually older ones). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism

What if I submitted evidence that your neo-pagan, Astaru religion is a rip-off of earlier Indo-European religions? Would that be another deep, dark conspiracy to keep us "brainwashed" and "ignorant"?

Here's just one example; your hot Nordic goddess, Freya, is actually an Indo-European love goddess called PriHeh. Wow, seek out the truth man, and don't let yourself be brainwashed. Prepare for where the world is heading!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

Techno-Viking is ok with syncretism.

/sarcasm off

[Asator]

Organized religions have always borrowed concepts and rituals from other religions (usually older ones). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism

What if I submitted evidence that your neo-pagan, Astaru religion is a rip-off of earlier Indo-European religions? Would that be another deep, dark conspiracy to keep us "brainwashed" and "ignorant"?

Here's just one example; your hot Nordic goddess, Freya, is actually an Indo-European love goddess called PriHeh. Wow, seek out the truth man, and don't let yourself be brainwashed. Prepare for where the world is heading!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

Techno-Viking is ok with syncretism.

/sarcasm off

Me talking about Asatru wasn't a call for someone to try to explain to me what they think I dont know about my beliefs. The fact you bring it up is a direct disregard to the point that was being made, just like the movie! Your redirection will work on me once sir and not again! I chose the word asatru because it is a more recognizable term and gives people an idea of where im coming from. The term I use for my self is Heathen and im proud of it My Thor and Freya as you put it, are the historical figures I choose to follow according to all the eddas and research I have done, and what they stand for to me according to my research. Yes I have read all translations and variations. Yes I know asatru was founded by a racist biggot, (which goes against everything a Thorsman stands for)and yes, I know they all borrow from one another, that was part of the point. Basically what im trying to say is your not telling me anything I dont already know. In my opinion, the whole purpose for people to look for gods or goddesses is to numb the thought of death and calm the fear of it. In my opinion, most people who are trying to find flaws in this movie are because their afraid that everything they think they know could come crashing down. I am also a true believer that "heaven and hell" are created in the mind, so whatever you create for yourself will be so. I love the idea of valhalla! I would love to give my life to protect a loved one or for anyone who needs protection!Im a thorsman because I love what it stands for and nothing else. My wife and I even named our daughter Freya and she will be raised heathen. She will be raised spiritually and with the understanding that words are just that, words. Science can try to shove down my throat all they want that fire is a "rapid, persistent chemical change that releases heat and light and is accompanied by flame, especially the exothermic oxidation of a combustible substance". To me it will always be magical and special! Thats my story and im sticking to it

[Winterchronic]

Is a month-old thread necroing ok?

Zeitgeist for me is a mixed bag.

9/11 stuff? I kinda ignore nowadays, not worth going into here, as to why.

religious stuff? can be debated to death, we are dealing with millenia-old 'facts' how can anyone know?

but, the socio-economic stuff, spot on in my mind.

yeah yeah we are slaves, but in this country at least, we are well kept slaves I mean, I have a HDTV and an electric toothbrush, not bad compared to the countless millions who suffer from our corrupt economic systems, and who have suffered from tyranny and poverty and conquest in the past, so I'm pretty lucky and should be content.

zeitgeist addendum was a far more credible concoction IMO, and however unrealistic and impossible to achieve, the speculation on a resource-based economy, scientific utopia was brilliant ( The Venus project ) but, unfortunately human nature makes that kind of world impossible.

[PROPHECY-BOUND]

WHAT FUN READING ALL THE MUD-SLINGING IN THE POSTS...

TRUTH IS... WHO CAN SAY WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS NOT... WE ARE ALL JUST FEELING OUR WAY THROUGH THIS MAIZE OF DECEPTION...

AND AS IT WAS PROPHECIED... "AND THE WHOLE EARTH WILL BE DECEIVED...".

TRUTH!

[Akatsuki-pein]

my thought is, This alex jones guy Snuck into a Top secret government facility and filmed the acts in which that took place. And went public with it non the less, From what iv heard and read, people who do this have a real short like expectancy and i mean REAL short. And this alex jones guy is still walking around? Fishy fishy,

[budokahn]

Zeitgeist debunked, seems like a strong claim.

it does interest me that you claim the Zeitgeist movie has lazy research and false claims. though i do think the movie was overly general in regard to so some of its claims, none were without a level of verification.

In the end this small portion of a film was just a fragment of a movie dedicated to a much bigger issue than something as fictional or ridiculous as religion.

Its aim was to force people to question all that they know in every day life:

money, law, education, politics, etc...

and look at how it effects society and what changes need to be made to produce a better more unified society.

I ask you what is your view on humanity and its current standing ?

The makers of this movie didn't make it to crap on your religion, i believe they made it to help unite a fractured world full of inequality and suffering. Governments, religion and the monetary system these are but a few things that seem to be at the root and cause of our problems.

its there love for people all people and the insight and foresight and ultimate goal that is really what you need to be taking away from this movie.

we need to change !

Edited February 27, 2011 by budokahn