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Zeitgeist debunked

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Sunofone
I just saw the movie a couple days ago and I have decided to start doing research on my own, but before I start I was hoping someone could help me with one thing I didn't see the movie cover. The religion part was talking about all of these ancient religions having many similarities and how they are all frauds, this covered a broad range of cultures, except Islam. The islamic religion is one of the largest in the world today. Zeitgeist didn't mention any similarities with that, I know very little about the islamic religion so maybe there are no similarities. If someone can shed some light on this for me or point me in the right direction of where I can do some accurate research, I would greatly appreciate it.

well if your hoping to link the luciferic qualities of most religions to islam you'll be disappointed-- the word islam translates as "peace" and anyone praticing islam is therefore a practioner of peace and the myth of an "islamo facist" is complete redundancy as you cannot equate a corporate monopoly with peace or even claim to be peaceful if you are a corporate whore-- the bush administration is using double speak and ouright lies to demonize the purest of all the religions and hence manifest a world of double thought where peace is terrorism-- all of zeitgeist is the unadulterated speaking of truth to power and if your hoping to somehow find a flaw with peace or link it to the luciferic cults of mesmerism you will be wasting your time-- there is a reason the elite have targeted "islam" ...because they cant stand peace

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mtnliving1

newbie, here, so be gentle. anyway, I signed up just b/c of this debate. I was so intrigued. The very simple point I'd like to add is this: the bible came to be(as most know it today-give or take a few books, i.e. catholic vs. others)b/c constantine(roman emperor)summoned the first council of nicaea, it resulted in the formulation of the common bible of today(after much debate over different beliefs within the christian cults/followers of christ). prior to this, constantine worshipped/was part of a sun cult/religion. his conversion is thought to have taken place after winning a battle, which before hand god is said to have given him a vision or something along those lines. also, it is thought by some that constantine's conversion to christianity was of convenience. b/c in constantine's time it's estimated that around twenty percent or so of rome's population were christians with an even larger proportion of the military following the teachings/cult of christ. so, again and i believe this to be well recorded by the history books....the bible came to be b/c an emperor of rome who previously worshipped the sun/sun god-don't split hairs-called a meeting and said give me a book to give these people. the sun, the sun, the sun. and them there is the facts, fellas, love it or hate it. so, the bible of TODAY that all these people put sooo much faith in owes its being to a worshipper of the sun. good night, ladies & gentlemen. o, yea, one more quick point i'd like to add in reply to an earlier post....if the catholic church is evil and false and yet most all other branches of christianity use the bible, which was created by the roman catholic church via the council of nicaea(so what if they don't use all the books they still use most of them and don't use the rest so it can suit their needs/beliefs-i.e. king james)then wouldn't that in turn cause all christianity to be based on falsehoods? hmmmm.

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Spurious George
well if your hoping to link the luciferic qualities of most religions to islam you'll be disappointed-- the word islam translates as "peace" and anyone praticing islam is therefore a practioner of peace and the myth of an "islamo facist" is complete redundancy as you cannot equate a corporate monopoly with peace or even claim to be peaceful if you are a corporate whore-- the bush administration is using double speak and ouright lies to demonize the purest of all the religions and hence manifest a world of double thought where peace is terrorism-- all of zeitgeist is the unadulterated speaking of truth to power and if your hoping to somehow find a flaw with peace or link it to the luciferic cults of mesmerism you will be wasting your time-- there is a reason the elite have targeted "islam" ...because they cant stand peace

LOL please correct me if I am wrong but did you just say that most if not all religions are frauds except Islam?

How can the Abrahamic tree be rooted in fraud but Islam, a branch of that tree, remain uncorrupted?

Also what are these "luciferic qualities" you mentioned? Are they qualities found in a Morning Star(Venus) archetype or a Satanic archetype?

--

I've watched the movie, didn't hear or see anything I haven't heard or seen before but it was entertaining. There will always be people that believe in a magical zombie man who is the son of God but at the same time God too, people that believe that three buildings can free fall into their own footprints on a magical day but not ever before or after and there will always be people that believe those who make money off of them care about their well-being. Most people prefer the world of make-believe, you can try and "help" them even though they don't want it, you can yell at them or even throw sh** at them if that makes you feel better but to me the most important part of that movie was the end when it says this is all just a ride, have fun, **** em ^_^

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Sunofone
LOL please correct me if I am wrong but did you just say that most if not all religions are frauds except Islam?

How can the Abrahamic tree be rooted in fraud but Islam, a branch of that tree, remain uncorrupted?

your confusing the personification and adoration of the sun with a bloodline which is what was the original goal of the fabricated religions-- islam is nothing more than the pursuit of "peace"--

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Spurious George

I recall a scene from that movie that shows a cartoon God sitting in the clouds watching everyone at all times, he has a list of things he does not want his followers to do and if if they do these things they will be punished. I think that was the main point of the movie's critique of religion - the sun connection merely illustratred the "copycat" aspect of Christianity(it's nothing new) - to address the absurdity of a magic dude in the clouds judging us. Islam, like other Abrahamic faiths, also believes in a magic dude in the sky that sets rules out for his followers and expects them to adhere to them which opens the doors for the corrupt rulers to use this God/Allah against their citizens.

As with Christianity Islam sets out to achieve peace in this world with God/Allah as guidance - as with Christianity Islam has failed time and again for centuries to achieve this peace. The failings of man? The failings of God? Or the failings of a God created by Man?

I get the feeling that just as those who will defend Christianity's absurd nature, you will defend the same absurd nature of Islam, correct me if I am wrong.

--

Also I am still curious about the 'luciferic' comments, I ask because the mythological Lucifer or Morning Star(what Jesus claims to be) is another fine example of religious manipulation of text and belief for the benefit of the Church. Imagine that Lucifer who is said to be Satan is exactly what Jesus claims to be in the Bible, what a mind**** ^_^

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Sunofone
I get the feeling that just as those who will defend Christianity's absurd nature, you will defend the same absurd nature of Islam, correct me if I am wrong.

--

Also I am still curious about the 'luciferic' comments, I ask because the mythological Lucifer or Morning Star(what Jesus claims to be) is another fine example of religious manipulation of text and belief for the benefit of the Church. Imagine that Lucifer who is said to be Satan is exactly what Jesus claims to be in the Bible, what a mind**** ^_^

i believe all religion is corrupt but there is also a fine line between religion and spiritualism and that islam seeks to be spiritualistic while the others glorify either personifications or numbers-- of course there are those that corrupt the true nature of islam by spreading disinfo and attempting to equate other spirtual movements with the corrupt religious organisations

and i meant it in the astrological sense

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Elgin
newbie, here, so be gentle. anyway, I signed up just b/c of this debate. I was so intrigued. The very simple point I'd like to add is this: the bible came to be(as most know it today-give or take a few books, i.e. catholic vs. others)b/c constantine(roman emperor)summoned the first council of nicaea, it resulted in the formulation of the common bible of today(after much debate over different beliefs within the christian cults/followers of christ). prior to this, constantine worshipped/was part of a sun cult/religion. his conversion is thought to have taken place after winning a battle, which before hand god is said to have given him a vision or something along those lines. also, it is thought by some that constantine's conversion to christianity was of convenience. b/c in constantine's time it's estimated that around twenty percent or so of rome's population were christians with an even larger proportion of the military following the teachings/cult of christ. so, again and i believe this to be well recorded by the history books....the bible came to be b/c an emperor of rome who previously worshipped the sun/sun god-don't split hairs-called a meeting and said give me a book to give these people. the sun, the sun, the sun. and them there is the facts, fellas, love it or hate it. so, the bible of TODAY that all these people put sooo much faith in owes its being to a worshipper of the sun. good night, ladies & gentlemen. o, yea, one more quick point i'd like to add in reply to an earlier post....if the catholic church is evil and false and yet most all other branches of christianity use the bible, which was created by the roman catholic church via the council of nicaea(so what if they don't use all the books they still use most of them and don't use the rest so it can suit their needs/beliefs-i.e. king james)then wouldn't that in turn cause all christianity to be based on falsehoods? hmmmm.

While a common myth, the idea that the council of Nicaea set or changed the Bible is still false, as is clear from the writings of the church father who discussed this issue before the council. As with doctrine, the Council only ratified what had already been accepted by Christians for some time. So like the movie, your premises are false. I would recommend my 3 part review of the movie for a more complete discussion of the numerous lies and errors in the movie’s discussion of Christianity.

Elgin

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sefrzan

No need to disprove religion, religion has yet to prove its self beyond reason, historical records, science, and critical thinking.

Edited by sefrzan

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The-Doctor

For those of you who believe that most or all religions are corrupt, I ask you then, what do you believe is the real purpose of religion?

As for those who have faith in religion or just their own, would you not say that most of all teachings in any religion teach morality?

I then ask, is it so harmful to believe that a man walked the earth and taught us how to live our daily lives? Son of God or not, is it harmful to the world if we obey his teachings? Is it harmful to follow the ten commandments? The teachings of Muhammad? Or regarding the polytheistic religions, is it so harmful to follow their teachings? In no religious text does it say that we shall go to war to fight for our religion, in fact most if not all say that murder or killing of any kind is a deadly sin. Religious violence then, is caused not by the teachings themselves but by the organization, the human.

Therefore, what is Zeitgeist trying to warn us of? To me, it seems it is trying to warn us of the teachings themselves. In my opinion, it is wasting its time. the corruption is not in religious beliefs but in humanity Itself. Human instincts and desires. Greed, lust, desire for power, etc. This is what we should be warned of.

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sefrzan
For those of you who believe that most or all religions are corrupt, I ask you then, what do you believe is the real purpose of religion?

Control

As for those who have faith in religion or just their own, would you not say that most of all teachings in any religion teach morality?

I then ask, is it so harmful to believe that a man walked the earth and taught us how to live our daily lives? Son of God or not, is it harmful to the world if we obey his teachings? Is it harmful to follow the ten commandments? The teachings of Muhammad? Or regarding the polytheistic religions, is it so harmful to follow their teachings? In no religious text does it say that we shall go to war to fight for our religion, in fact most if not all say that murder or killing of any kind is a deadly sin. Religious violence then, is caused not by the teachings themselves but by the organization, the human.

The lessons themselves may not be immoral or bad but they should not be misrepresented as the word of "God". Call it a self-help book or whatever but dont portray it as something its not or has not proven to be.

Therefore, what is Zeitgeist trying to warn us of? To me, it seems it is trying to warn us of the teachings themselves. In my opinion, it is wasting its time. the corruption is not in religious beliefs but in humanity Itself. Human instincts and desires. Greed, lust, desire for power, etc. This is what we should be warned of.

I believe the movie is attempting to inject some push into the viewer to do some research before accepting things based solely on face value. This quote is taken from the Zeitgeist web page: "It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth, but find out for themselves, for truth is not told, it is realized."

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REfan001

I still dont know what to think about this first part. I know there are obvious falsities about religion being linked to astrology in this movie. but hell, for all we know astrotheology may be true, but not how they say it is in the movie. However, the things they do mention towards to end about religion are absolutely true, no doubt about it. Religion is the most powerful form of control ever created.

I do agree with Sunofone somewhat. EVERYONE should see this movie, especially parts 2 & 3. BTW, How come no one is talking about those?

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The-Doctor

While I agree that the purpose of most religious organizations is to control the masses in a sense, you will notice, however, with a bit of historical research, that religious texts such as the bible are not just some ridiculous fabricated stories. AND, Zeitgeist, as proven earlier in this thread, uses many inaccurate claims as well, so it is not something one can place their trust in either.

I myself have experience with religious organizations that tend to exercise much power and control over people's lives, and I know now what to trust and what not to trust. Zeitgeist does not make many claims against any particular organization but the religious stories themselves.

And as for faith that such-and-such texts are God's holy word, well thats for the person to decide. Whether they believe so or not is not going to harm society unless they decide to "control" others.

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Elgin
For those of you who believe that most or all religions are corrupt, I ask you then, what do you believe is the real purpose of religion?

Control

How, by whom and for what purpose ? This might make sense when dealing with a religion that has a clear hierarchical power structure, but not all religions have such a structure. In fact, one of the problems with Islam is that it lacks any formal power structure that could control its radical extremes.

Many protestants churches have a very democratic power structure (which was historically an important factor in the emergence of democracy in Europe and the US.) How does “control” fit as a purpose of these groups? Applied to specific groups and individuals, “control” might be a good explanation, but as a blanket explanation, it fails miserably.

I believe the movie is attempting to inject some push into the viewer to do some research before accepting things based solely on face value. This quote is taken from the Zeitgeist web page: "It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth, but find out for themselves, for truth is not told, it is realized."

Goals I agree with, but what should one do when they do the research and find out that the claims made in the movie are based on problems, errors, and lies, has I have demostrated. Is the moive just an exercise to get people to test their false claims?

Elgin

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Elgin
I still dont know what to think about this first part. I know there are obvious falsities about religion being linked to astrology in this movie. but hell, for all we know astrotheology may be true, but not how they say it is in the movie. However, the things they do mention towards to end about religion are absolutely true, no doubt about it. Religion is the most powerful form of control ever created.

Actually, the errors extend throughout the entire first part. In particular for the section you mentioned see Part III of my review.

I would disagree that religion is the most powerful form of control. Government is frequently far more powerful and invasive. More importantly, while religion is often, and should always be, voluntary, government, by its nature is not. Just look at the massive amount of control Government has over our lives in the US, and we are classified as a “free” society. Consider the amounts of control totalitarian governments have over the day to day lives of their citizens. So government is much more a source of control.

In fact one of the benefits of religion is that it can provide a check and balance on government. Sort of like the separation of powers set up in the Constitution. This was why the founding fathers view religion as so important, yet independent of government, for it could provide a check on government.

The real danger occurs when government becomes completely dominated by any single group so as to use it power to suppress and restrict competing groups as the ability for checks and balances disappears. In European history, Christianity was at time too closely allied, and in some cases was, the government. That was a problem. Today the danger lies with secularism, which has come to dominate government, and is using its power to restricting the influence of religion. Completely remove the influence of religion and you remove any ability it has to check the control of government.

To see this just look at the last century where you had a declining influence of religion in America you had a corresponding increase in the growth of government, and a corresponding decrease in freedom. Sure we now have much more freedom to use certain words formally considered vulgar, but in exchange we now have speech codes on what opinions and thoughts are acceptable. Express a politically incorrect opinion, however true it may be, and you can be sent to sensitive training, or even lose your job. (In Europe, which even more secular, you can go to jail). So in 21st century America, I fear Big Government much more than Big Religion. If I lived in Iran, I might have a different point of view, but I live in America, and here the current threats to freedom are not from Christians.

Elgin

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Z-E-B

Yeah, i watched the movie... Believed it (did go thru the "What if THEY are the men behind the curtain" theory - just not considered likely in my mind anyways... i mean, come on... seriously, is the conspiracy theorist of this age really THAT paranoid...)

Then i read this thread, witch i also must say i found very intertaining to say the least, it was also fairly informational.

Now... Just too share my conclusions with the users of this board;

I Believe that Christianity as a whole was originally just a way of life. (lifestyle etc. get it?)

I Believe that the people behind the world (and yes, lets just admit it, they're real) transformed this way of life into a religion to control the mases (as to how they came across it - well, i leave it to you imagination to figure that one out)

I Believe that 9/11 was the first steps in the final stage of the transformation of the world into a One-World-Government (to further "Back" my claim here i will refer to Albert Pike, and the letter he wrote in the early 19-hundreds. This letter describes how the world would have to bare witness to three (THREE) World Wars. WW I already happened - so did the second, now think about it, what classifies as a world war? a war in witch the most countries of the world form a united front against a common enemy... ring any bells???)

I believe that in the comming decades we will see this one world come true... we will see our liberties disapear ... and i believe that the Facist's will win... (since we all by now know that the nazi's just changed names and ethics and went after world domination in another way) One must do what one can to prevent this from happening, and sure, be suspicious... about everything and everyone... we all talk about, nature, being who we are and humanity, we hear it alot... well greed is something that most human beings share.

So of course in the end (being not that many years away) we will be ruled by the Rockefeller/Morgan/Who-ever-got-enough-money syndicate out there (look into the Bilderberg group for an instance) in my mind - no doubt about it (unless what those guys are doing is actually p***ing someone off enough to just blow the whole sh** up ... Thank "GOD" for the NUKE!

"I saw a whole in the man - and that hole will never be filled"

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The-Doctor

QUOTE(Z-E-B @ Aug 21 2007, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, i watched the movie... Believed it (did go thru the "What if THEY are the men behind the curtain" theory - just not considered likely in my mind anyways... i mean, come on... seriously, is the conspiracy theorist of this age really THAT paranoid...)

Then i read this thread, witch i also must say i found very intertaining to say the least, it was also fairly informational.

Now... Just too share my conclusions with the users of this board;

I Believe that Christianity as a whole was originally just a way of life. (lifestyle etc. get it?)

Yeah, i agree with you on this point

I Believe that the people behind the world (and yes, lets just admit it, they're real) transformed this way of life into a religion to control the mases (as to how they came across it - well, i leave it to you imagination to figure that one out)

I'm not sure how exactly you come across this idea. And what type of Christianity are you referring to? You cannot possibly be referring to all of it, because there are hundreds of small churches everywhere that have no connection to people in higher power, and that are not influenced by anyone other than that small group of people. ZEB, I've wondered if you've heard of Jehovah's Witnesses? Did you know one of their strongest beliefs is to completely stay non-connected to all governments, and they even believe government will be destroyed one day. They are Christians, do you believe they are in on this whole conspiracy too? (I actually used to be one, i left for different reasons). But they do certainly have a lot of power over their members, lifestyles and all. So for me this shows that while religion can be used to control the masses, it is never going to become a one-world government type thing, for years and years to come there will always be thousands of beliefs and creeds, etc.

I Believe that 9/11 was the first steps in the final stage of the transformation of the world into a One-World-Government (to further "Back" my claim here i will refer to Albert Pike, and the letter he wrote in the early 19-hundreds. This letter describes how the world would have to bare witness to three (THREE) World Wars. WW I already happened - so did the second, now think about it, what classifies as a world war? a war in witch the most countries of the world form a united front against a common enemy... ring any bells???)

I believe that in the comming decades we will see this one world come true... we will see our liberties disapear ... and i believe that the Facist's will win... (since we all by now know that the nazi's just changed names and ethics and went after world domination in another way) One must do what one can to prevent this from happening, and sure, be suspicious... about everything and everyone... we all talk about, nature, being who we are and humanity, we hear it alot... well greed is something that most human beings share.

This is assuming that Albert Pike's letter is a completely accurate prophesy, which I'm not sure how we can come to that conclusion. I don't see how these world wars bring us any closer to this final stage of government. Most of these wars were to protect freedom in the world (although some wars were just plain pointless, or simply failed). But somehow I doubt that with every war we've seen, and what the causes for each were, that the end will be a fascist totalitarian government. Humanity simply isn't going to let that happen, humanity needs its liberties. I don't believe anyone in this discussion desires a government with no freedoms, nor do i believe that it is what the entire world wants. Quite the contrary, we know, through history, what happens with fascist governments, we know what it does to the people, and we know what ultimately becomes of these governments. the fact that we would all be tormented with this new form of rule proves that this one-world totalitarianism will never arise. Heed my words here: A cruel, greedy, unjust and tyrannical government will NEVER survive.

So of course in the end (being not that many years away) we will be ruled by the Rockefeller/Morgan/Who-ever-got-enough-money syndicate out there (look into the Bilderberg group for an instance) in my mind - no doubt about it (unless what those guys are doing is actually p***ing someone off enough to just blow the whole sh** up ... Thank "GOD" for the NUKE!

"I saw a whole in the man - and that hole will never be filled"

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REfan001
This is assuming that Albert Pike's letter is a completely accurate prophesy, which I'm not sure how we can come to that conclusion. I don't see how these world wars bring us any closer to this final stage of government. Most of these wars were to protect freedom in the world (although some wars were just plain pointless, or simply failed). But somehow I doubt that with every war we've seen, and what the causes for each were, that the end will be a fascist totalitarian government. Humanity simply isn't going to let that happen, humanity needs its liberties. I don't believe anyone in this discussion desires a government with no freedoms, nor do i believe that it is what the entire world wants. Quite the contrary, we know, through history, what happens with fascist governments, we know what it does to the people, and we know what ultimately becomes of these governments. the fact that we would all be tormented with this new form of rule proves that this one-world totalitarianism will never arise. Heed my words here: A cruel, greedy, unjust and tyrannical government will NEVER survive.

But look why these governments have never survived, there has always been something there to stop them. example: World War II. We able to stop Hitler because the Allies were a greater power than the Axis. If it were not, im pretty sure we'd all be speaking German right now. So if this NWO play out whos to stop them then if every nation on earth was united into one government?

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The-Doctor
But look why these governments have never survived, there has always been something there to stop them. example: World War II. We able to stop Hitler because the Allies were a greater power than the Axis. If it were not, im pretty sure we'd all be speaking German right now. So if this NWO play out whos to stop them then if every nation on earth was united into one government?

Thank you, what you said just here proves my point even more. There will always be a huge power to stop these tyrannical governments. Like I said, humanity needs its liberties and freedoms, and many governments fight for just this purpose. Resistance will always form to an unjust and cruel government, even if it is in the form of a country. The Nazi regime did not and could never survive, the world knew what they were doing, what they were capable of. It is highly unlikely that the human race will ever form one government over the entire world, if they do it will not be for thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years, because we just aren't ready to handle it. Right now, the world is kept in somewhat order because of the checks and balances off each of the powers. Still crude and somewhat ineffective at the moment, but it will still never let such a horrible government rule over all of us

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REfan001
Thank you, what you said just here proves my point even more. There will always be a huge power to stop these tyrannical governments. Like I said, humanity needs its liberties and freedoms, and many governments fight for just this purpose. Resistance will always form to an unjust and cruel government, even if it is in the form of a country. The Nazi regime did not and could never survive, the world knew what they were doing, what they were capable of. It is highly unlikely that the human race will ever form one government over the entire world, if they do it will not be for thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years, because we just aren't ready to handle it. Right now, the world is kept in somewhat order because of the checks and balances off each of the powers. Still crude and somewhat ineffective at the moment, but it will still never let such a horrible government rule over all of us

I guess that is pretty true. Which is what I think that entire movie was about. Not to force these "truths" down your throat, but rather to open your eyes to whats happening around you. that there more to the world than what you see on TV. It says at the end of the movie, that "The revolution is now". Which I believe it is. We have to stop these "men behind the curtain" from carrying out their plans before its too late.

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Army_Brat

As far as that movie goes towards implying that the government is evil, and the world is controlled by a few, etc, I'm not sure. There is obviously something going on behind the scenes that the bush administration refuses to tell us about, and I know that there is so much screwed up sh** now wrong with this country, that it really does need to be revamped. Problem is, most of the people today are so brainwashed by the ideas of getting more money, more stuff, and that they are 'patriotic', that any attempt to change the way this nation is set up or is run is likely to be fought every step of the way.

By the way, sorry for jumping a but of topic.

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Sunofone
The Nazi regime did not and could never survive,

you either have alot to learn or are you intentionally spreading ignorance-- the regime that designed,funded and pushed the nazi policies are the same globalists that are in the vatican and pimped by the throne of the british monarchy-- chavez,ahmedinijad,bush,cheney,putin,ratzinger and the queen are all manuevering to exterminate the masses and install a fascist dictatorship after they reduce the population by more than half

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The-Doctor
you either have alot to learn or are you intentionally spreading ignorance Oh no, you discovered me! Yes, i am actually a secret government disinformation agent, bow down to me, because when the new order takes over I will be your ruler and master! Muahahahaa!! :devil:-- the regime that designed,funded and pushed the nazi policies are the same globalists that are in the vatican and pimped by the throne of the british monarchy-- chavez,ahmedinijad,bush,cheney,putin,ratzinger and the queen are all manuevering to exterminate the masses and install a fascist dictatorship after they reduce the population by more than half

Umm...I'm guessing this is just your own theory which you just pulled out of the air when you typed that post? :blink:

Remember how I once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? Well so far I've seen a few legitimate claims about exactly how the 9/11 terrorist attacks were executed, but there has not been one SHRED of evidence that points to this "New World Order" garbage. And the first part of Zeitgeist (religion) was just completely distorted by untrue facts. Any historian could tell you that. Is this the type of evidence you make your theories out of?

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conspiracy clothes
Umm...I'm guessing this is just your own theory which you just pulled out of the air when you typed that post? :blink:

Remember how I once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? Well so far I've seen a few legitimate claims about exactly how the 9/11 terrorist attacks were executed, but there has not been one SHRED of evidence that points to this "New World Order" garbage. And the first part of Zeitgeist (religion) was just completely distorted by untrue facts. Any historian could tell you that. Is this the type of evidence you make your theories out of?

Doctor...your not helping..... Sunofone is right about this. your more or less right about the religion bit of zeitgeist but there is a lot to more to this story than you seem to have figured out.

here is a recent post I tried to reference things as well as I could in regards to this.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...howtopic=103598

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Mars

Christianity is a mix between Judaism and Paganism basically IMO.

Even Angels are from the Zoroastrian religion and such.

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