Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Brazil urge EU to lift BioFuel Tariffs


GreyWeather

Recommended Posts

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Brazil - the world's largest producer of biofuels – has suggested the EU should scrap its biofuel import tariffs, challenging it to both compete more fairly in international trade while finding ways to live up to its green targets.

Speaking at an International Biofuels Conference in Brussels on Thursday (5 July), Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva said it was a historic opportunity for the developed world to help build a "prosperous and fair world" but that the barriers to entering the agricultural market in the developed world, such as the EU, were preventing this.

"We cannot send out contradictory signals. The very governments who reiterated a commitment to sustainable development and to the reduction of greenhouse gases cannot then turn around and create obstacles to turning biofuels into international commodities," he said.

But EU capitals remain very divided on import tariffs with France keen to protects its farmers while Sweden is at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Swedish trade minister Sten Tolgfors on Thursday called on the EU to scrap its tariffs on biofuel imports to increase trade in the commodity. "We must combat all trade barriers," he said at the conference.

EU biofuels target

Biofuels are made of the same products as fossil fuels - plants, trees and animal waste – but have the advantage of being able to be produced straight from the product unlike fossil fuels that have been processed over millions of years.

EU member states vowed in March to replace 10 percent of transport fuel with biofuel made from energy crops by 2020. At the moment, the figure is only 1.8 percent and the European Commission sees the importation of biofuels as a way to reach that goal.

"Europe should be open to accepting that we will import a large part of our biofuel resources," said EU trade commissioner Peter Mandelson, also at the conference.

Brussels is keen to use biofuels as an important part of ensuring energy security in the EU and to limit the bloc's greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuels like gasoline.

But there are also concerns that production of crops for fuel may contribute to wiping out rainforests as well as to rising food prices in developing countries.

"Our aim must be to develop an EU biofuels policy which meets our objective on security of supply and climate change, while ensuring sustainable development," said European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso.

The EU executive is expected to come forward with a draft law by the end of the year, which will include minimum standards for sustainable biofuels production.

Green groups are keeping a close eye on the commission's legislation progress on biofuels.

"I am pleased that the European Union clearly states the need for standards, but it's too early to say whether I'll be pleased with the final outcome" said Jean-Philippe Denruyter from the Worldwide Fund for Nature (WWF).

Source

Another source - puts what you just read in a nutshell

Gee, another example of politics over the people. All leaders - in our entire history - want to bleed dry any money making agenda's before turning to the next best profitable thing, with no care in the world for the people they're there for.

It's a shame that even in this era, the governments still think the people are there for the government. I beleive the government are here for the people :tu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 28
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Feanor

    7

  • Luziadus

    5

  • GreyWeather

    3

  • Clocker

    3

well it seems that no one cares about this kind of subjects,what a pity,because the world should be care about the future,and not only about wars and middle east and bush/usa.

I think that UE should support this commerce of biodiesel from Brasil and forget the oil from Middle East.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It turns out that biofuels aren't so hot. They are not as efficient as gasoline so you end up actually producing more pollution to travel the same distance. They might be useful in small, single engine aircraft, if they were to develop a good Stirlin engine for them.Let's also concider, biofuels are grown on farmland that could be used to grow food.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Biofuels are made of the same products as fossil fuels - plants, trees and animal waste – but have the advantage of being able to be produced straight from the product unlike fossil fuels that have been processed over millions of years"

"But there are also concerns that production of crops for fuel may contribute to wiping out rainforests as well as to rising food prices in developing countries"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hm, I never considered those points...

Maybe it's a good thing they have the tariffs, though we do need cleaner fuels. I suppose biofuels are just a step forward but also two steps back if they create more pollution and raise food prices in Brazil and other countries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think Biofuel is more polluted than Fuel.

One thing must be made for substitute the Fuel,I read some months ago that we have something that could be the substitute of the Fuel which is more cleaner and give more energy,we find that in deep ocean, I dont remember what was the name of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think Biofuel is more polluted than Fuel.

One thing must be made for substitute the Fuel,I read some months ago that we have something that could be the substitute of the Fuel which is more cleaner and give more energy,we find that in deep ocean, I dont remember what was the name of it.

Deuterium? It's heavy hydrogen found deep in the oceans.

Edit

Typo - "heavey"

Edited by Chokmah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Umbarger, I don't think biofuels are the solution. In powerplants, some forms of bio-mass are being used effectively but other than that...well, if you wanna grow corn or sugarcane for fuel, I'd say it may very well have an effect on food prices all over the world, especially in the developing countries but elsewhere too. I'm more for researching other alternative sources and improving present alternative energy technologies such as batteries, solar and wind power, and perhaps try and get that cold fusion working (if possible)...not to forget fuel cell technology with automotives. Oh yeah, from what I've heard a good part of biofuel is produced using slave labor (practically speaking), which might be part of why there are tariffs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be mistaken, but I thought that biofuels could be made from not only sugarcane and corn, but also pretty much any leftover organic material...corn husks, not just the corn...for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be mistaken, but I thought that biofuels could be made from not only sugarcane and corn, but also pretty much any leftover organic material...corn husks, not just the corn...for example.

You're correct; I was referring to that type of bio-mass when I said some forms of bio-mass can be suitable, sustainable sources of energy. I definitely think pretty much all organic waste should be put to use and not just dump.

Edited by Clocker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It turns out that biofuels aren't so hot. They are not as efficient as gasoline so you end up actually producing more pollution to travel the same distance. They might be useful in small, single engine aircraft, if they were to develop a good Stirlin engine for them.Let's also concider, biofuels are grown on farmland that could be used to grow food.

Lord Umbarger, i agree whith you. BTW, Guess who also agree whith you?

PD: A clue, one is in Cuba, the other in Venezuela.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It turns out that biofuels aren't so hot. They are not as efficient as gasoline so you end up actually producing more pollution to travel the same distance. They might be useful in small, single engine aircraft, if they were to develop a good Stirlin engine for them.Let's also concider, biofuels are grown on farmland that could be used to grow food.

Any facts to back that up?

Plant growth uses up carbon, so in an ideal scenario biofuels are carbon-neutral.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Biofuel are not soo efficient has gasoline, and the general problem is that if they become mainstay, it would be a more greater demand of it, devoting more farmland to produce biofuel than food. And it will happen something similar to the soy, where greeedy landowners would devastate entires zones of virgin forest to produce more soy, munocultivatiing it, and degrading the soil.

Critisism on Biofuels - Wikipedia

Edited by Mekorig
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunatly, tariffs will not be lowered in the EU due to domestic problems. People think of Europe as big cities and mountains. But Europe is much more agricultural that people believe. France and Germany are the top producers of sugarbeets. Which would be in direct competition with Brazilian sugarcane. Many European farmers are very militant. And have been known to close highways, depriving the citys of food and fuel. I remember many years ago of hearing on the radio, French farmers taking a number of government officials hostage until their demands were met. With so many farmers in Europe, they are one of the largest political enities in the EU. And no one wants to risk a farmers strike in Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lord Umbarger, i agree whith you. BTW, Guess who also agree whith you?

PD: A clue, one is in Cuba, the other in Venezuela.

Lord clearly has a Commie Chavez opinion on this issue ^_^

*

A better question people should be asking themselves - instead of biofuels efficiency, amount of pollution and replacement of foods being grown - is how does it affect the US Petrodollar? Whether it be good ole fashioned oil or biofuel the existing petro-infrastructure will be maintained - gas stations, autoshops, etc. - also biofuel does not threaten the Petrodollar as would say... electric powered vehicles, which would basically render the existing petro-infrastructure almost entirely obsolete as well as unseat the US dollar as the world's reserve currency.

This question however leads to other important questions such as how does the "American Dream"(Petrodollar) and new alternative fuels conflict.... and would enivornmentally concerned Americans(no doubt eco-Democrats/Hippies) trade their way of life for the benefit of the planet? Would you... sacrifice the "American Dream" for environmentally friendly fuel alternatives.... potentially bankrupt your country... perhaps sacrifice your job... your paycheck... the welfare of your family... for a cleaner world?

Edited by Catch .22
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It turns out that biofuels aren't so hot. They are not as efficient as gasoline so you end up actually producing more pollution to travel the same distance. They might be useful in small, single engine aircraft, if they were to develop a good Stirlin engine for them.Let's also concider, biofuels are grown on farmland that could be used to grow food.

Lord... please, give us the source where you get this affirmation that biodiesel is less effective than the one based on petroleum. Then we can discuss more about it.

Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lord... please, give us the source where you get this affirmation that biodiesel is less effective than the one based on petroleum. Then we can discuss more about it.

Thank you!

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hm, I never considered those points...

Maybe it's a good thing they have the tariffs, though we do need cleaner fuels. I suppose biofuels are just a step forward but also two steps back if they create more pollution and raise food prices in Brazil and other countries.

Guys, please. Biodiesel do not produces more pollution, it was tested and it is NOT less effective. Also, this kind of fuel won’t create any rise on prices of food in Brazil. What causes the rise of price in Brazil it is the damn corrupt politicians we have. There is one thing that our government must do though. It should create laws and “rules” to produce biofuel so the producers wont plant in forbidden areas, etc as for example, near Amazon rain forest.

Biodiesel is one of the best things my country created and it will prosper cause it is something good. At leas Brazil spend more time thinking about good things than how to create a bloody and more devastating weapon to blow the hell out of other people.

What I see, is that biodiesel, if adopted by other cultures, can be something extremely good to nature. Also, I don’t think it impose any problems to oil based fuels as some insists in say. There is no need to be afraid; biofuel won’t take petroleum’s place. At least, not in the next 100 years or so, because human is ignorant and not open to new possibilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys, please. Biodiesel do not produces more pollution, it was tested and it is NOT less effective.

It is technically less efficient than petroleum as you get fewer joules per kilogram from it, but that's a small price to pay.

You're right about pollution. Like I said, biodiesel is grown. It can't possibly emit more carbon than it uses while growing. It only 'pollutes' with what it removed in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lord Umbarger, i agree whith you. BTW, Guess who also agree whith you?

PD: A clue, one is in Cuba, the other in Venezuela.

Buddy, you can add some one else on this list… *wonders* -.-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brazil wants the EU to reduce biofuel tarrifs so that it can sell more biofuels to Europe. It produces biofuels by burning down the rain forests and growing crops instead. The shift from fossil fuels to biofuels may help alleviate some of the effects of climate change - caused by Brazil burning down the rain forests ....... :unsure::huh::whistle:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Biofuel are not soo efficient has gasoline, and the general problem is that if they become mainstay, it would be a more greater demand of it, devoting more farmland to produce biofuel than food. And it will happen something similar to the soy, where greeedy landowners would devastate entires zones of virgin forest to produce more soy, munocultivatiing it, and degrading the soil.

Critisism on Biofuels - Wikipedia

Biofuel will not take petroleum place for God’s sake! And, really, one must be really dumb to stop food production to make only fuel. Would you stop eating to fill up your car with gas?

This excuse is ridiculous and really Wikipedia is not reliable source at all. Anyone adds what wants there. I can easily access this link you put here and change some bits of this article and it will have other meanings.

Bio fuel is an alternative source of energy and should be given credit cause it can help a lot, is it the ultimate solution to pollution control? No, not at all!!!

To reduce pollution, every country in the damn world should be worried with gas emission and try to control it the best they can, but hell. There are countries that don’t care at all.

I work for a multinational Japanese company and we export Bulldozers, crawler excavators, wheel-loaders, off road trucks, etc. Europe demands we make engines that produces really low pollution levels, my country too, Japan, but there are some that don’t want our Cummings TIER 3 Ecot 3 technology because they think its expensive and also, they didn’t sign Kyoto treat, so why bother? We are testing engines with Biofuel and so far, no problems were found.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brazil wants the EU to reduce biofuel tarrifs so that it can sell more biofuels to Europe. It produces biofuels by burning down the rain forests and growing crops instead. The shift from fossil fuels to biofuels may help alleviate some of the effects of climate change - caused by Brazil burning down the rain forests ....... :unsure::huh::whistle:

I knew sooner or later someone would say this.

Essan, yes, some ignorant Brazilians chop down trees in Amazon rain forest and burn them down. But I already said this on another thread and here I go again. No one to know better about OUR forest than our selves and the MEDIA shows what it consider interesting. The rarely show the programs, efforts, laws being created to control deforestation, to preserve the Amazon rain forest. The world thinks we are a bunch of Indians that leave in trees and has no culture and once thing I can assure you. We are not. There is fool everywhere. Some are president of great nations and this includes Brazil too, cause our president is a moron.

But, we know what is wrong and I am willing to die to protect the rain forest of Amazon as many other Brazilians are. To protect it from our own morons and any other who think they can do what they want with our patrimony.

Don’t buy all the crap people say about us, cause usually 1st world always tries to diminish we; the 3rd world and deem us as uneducated people. Brazil is growing each passing day and one day, I hope in my lifetime, our people wake up and choose better its politics because they are the real problem here.

So resuming, yes, there is deforestation in Amazon rain forest. Also US is the main polluter of the planet and don’t seem to care much about it, they have more important things, like to wage war on 3rd world countries, and I could make a really big list of the crap countries around the world do…

I really admire you and the most of your posts here on UM, but this time I got a bit disappointed… Probably you don’t care anyway. And anyway… kind regards from a Brazilian who is part of a ong that fights to preserve Amazon rain forest. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Feanor, I made an unfair generalisation there. Especially since much of the deforestation across the world has been prompted by the demand for cheap food products in the west. We are as much if not more to blame. And I know that many people in Brazil and elsewhere are doing a better job than us in Britain at fighting deforestation where it's a mostly overlooked and ignored problem these days :(

But it concerns me that some tropical countries could end up causing more climatic damage to their own countries as a result of the west's desire to curb its own impact on climate change. Biofuels in my opinion are a very short sighted and inefficient solution to a complex problem.

Deforestation may be playing a much bigger role in regional climate change than most people are aware of - indeed it may have global implications. So I'm naturally opposed to anything that might lead to more deforestation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Biofuel will not take petroleum place for God’s sake! And, really, one must be really dumb to stop food production to make only fuel. Would you stop eating to fill up your car with gas?

This excuse is ridiculous and really Wikipedia is not reliable source at all. Anyone adds what wants there. I can easily access this link you put here and change some bits of this article and it will have other meanings.

Bio fuel is an alternative source of energy and should be given credit cause it can help a lot, is it the ultimate solution to pollution control? No, not at all!!!

To reduce pollution, every country in the damn world should be worried with gas emission and try to control it the best they can, but hell. There are countries that don’t care at all.

I work for a multinational Japanese company and we export Bulldozers, crawler excavators, wheel-loaders, off road trucks, etc. Europe demands we make engines that produces really low pollution levels, my country too, Japan, but there are some that don’t want our Cummings TIER 3 Ecot 3 technology because they think its expensive and also, they didn’t sign Kyoto treat, so why bother? We are testing engines with Biofuel and so far, no problems were found.

Well, the problem is, the way I see it, that while people of course want to eat, a lot of people think: "hey, I can get much more cash if I start growing crops for fuel only (it pays more to do so, currently)". So, as more and more people start to do this, it has a direct effect on the amount of food crops produced: it diminishes, which in turn means less food. The people who switch to growing fuel crops only get more income, and in their eyes they get more food, so to speak. So, as the the production of food crops would diminish, their price would go up (a direct result of a reduction in supply). So now we've got less food that costs more. And who has the clout to buy it? That's right, the 1st world countries. I'm not saying it's a fact that this will happen if we really start to take advantage of biofuels, but it is a plausible scenario.

In my view, biofuels should be taken an advantage of to an extent. I think you agree with me on this. But I think we should concentrate more on 'leftover' biomass, like corn husks etc. Breweries, for example, produce a lot of biowaste in their production processes; that could easily be turned into energy. Wood chips from forest industry, things of that nature. Not so much growing crops for fuel; arable land is, after all, limited. But like you said, biofuels aren't the ultimate solution for a source of energy.

As for wikipedia...I'd say it's a relatively reliable source. First of all, most of its articles have sources and if they don't, there's a notification. Second, the articles are, as far as I know, constantly being reviewed by people, and they are usually quickly fixed if someone adds false information there. Third, there have been various studies which indicate that it indeed is a relatively good, reliable source of information.

Edited by Clocker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.