The Turin Shroud's enduring mystery

An interesting read regarding the Folded Napkin. Thought the article is written to support a resurrected Jesus, which is not a priority in my own interest, it does offer insightful speculation about, in particular, the sudarium.   ...Again. You can't reasonably support both the shroud and the sudarium. I wasn't trying to with the link provided. I merely pointed out it was an interesting story. I said it contained speculation and supported a resurrection, not a theory I accept as believable, at least not thus far.

I didn't say the Shroud IS ... , I said I believe it is, but indicated I can understand why others would not believe it to be. There is quite a difference in those two statements. Furthermore, I didn't say the Gospels were incorrect. I said they could be interpreted differently according to variations in the stories themselves, as well as influences over the centuries between the time of Jesus' death and the written record coming into existence. Again, that is a major difference. You seem incompetently skilled at trying to put your words in another person's mouth. I see that you've now reached... [More]

I see that you've now reached the ad hominem attack stage of debating. ... Whadeva .... They aren't testimonies, they are second and possibly third or fourth hand hearsay that have been translated from one language to another multiple times. They are hardly reliable, which is what I pointed out. I pointed out several inconsistencies in the so called "testimonies" you brought forth. *Snip*

Whadeva .... They aren't testimonies, they are second and possibly third or fourth hand hearsay that have been translated from one language to another multiple times. They are hardly reliable, which is what I pointed out. I pointed out several inconsistencies in the so called "testimonies" you brought forth. Again, feel free to use a primary source from that time period which you believe is more reliable. Also - if you wish to continue posting here, I strongly advise you to re-read the Forum's rules, especially: 3f. Abusive behaviour: Do not be rude, insulting, offensive, snide, obnoxious or a... [More]

  ...Also - if you wish to continue posting here, I strongly advise you to re-read the Forum's rules,  ... Thank you. I have read the rules.

Thank you. Can you expound on the statement above? Do you feel I have tried to brush over the unexplained in the information I have provided? I have tried to stick as closely to the known, documented, peer reviewed, scientific information about the Shroud as I possibly could. I will allow that in the years of research conducted on the Shroud since the original STURP team began its investigation in 1978 there have been some theories advanced which have since been proven unreliable and some of those may have crept into the information I have provided from outside sources (see my note below). I h... [More]

To fully explain my "obsession" with ears. My daughter has long hair, whenever she lies down, her hair falls away, exposing her ears. Why is this not shown on the shroud? The only logical explainations for this would be either; The hair was kept in place with oils before wrapping, (but you state that no oils were used) or, The shroud was faked, the body copied was upright enabling the hair to fall downwards over the ears. I know I keep banging on about the ears, but it is the one flaw that keeps jumping out at me. I would think that bathing was not a daily exercise of the day? I think it wold ... [More]

If you're going to conveniently reject the only available accounts of the preparation of the burial of Jesus, then you're free to believe in whatever you want to believe happened, I guess. Can the Sudarium of Oviedo and the shroud not be completely separate items? From what I understand, the Sudarium of Oviedo was used to cover Jesus bloodied face, then a single shroud could be "wrapped" around the body at the burial preparations. I do believe the references from Mark provided by Hypotenuse can be read that way. For the record, I do agree with you, this is an important artifact, possibly from ... [More]

Hi Hypotenuse No, not you, sorry, usually I am quite wordy in my replies to avoid such confusion. ... etc. Thanks, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure. I draw your attention to an essay written by William Meacham - Archaeologist, and presented in "CURRENT ANTHROPOLOGY" - Vol. 24 - N° 3 - (June 1983). Note, this was before the 1988 carbon dating which cast an undeserved pall over previously researched information. Now that the carbon dating itself has been revealed to be seriously flawed, both in the empirical provenance of the samples taken as well as the possibility the sampling area wa... [More]

Can the Sudarium of Oviedo and the shroud not be completely separate items? From what I understand, the Sudarium of Oviedo was used to cover Jesus bloodied face, then a single shroud could be "wrapped" around the body at the burial preparations. I do believe the references from Mark provided by Hypotenuse can be read that way. The facecloth was traditionally separate from the rest of the clothes used. The basic idea was that if you weren't quite dead, you could blow the face cloth away and shout for help. Wrapping the body with a single cloth rather defeats that purpose. For the record, I do a... [More]